Can one use a water cooled TIG torch with out cooling?

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All:I am picking up a new water cooled TIG torch and water cooler for my HiFreq box attached to my IdealArc 250 but I am afraid I will end up with the torch before the water cooler. Can I use a water cooled torch without water cooling?ChadMy JeepLincoln Power Mig 215 / Magnum 300 Mig Gun / SG Spool Gun / Dual TankLincoln X-TRACTOR 1GCMiller Digital Elite
Reply:i wouldnt..... usually you will burn up the waterlines near the torchtackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:NO you will cook it
Reply:You can if you don't get to carried away. But you shouldn't unless you absolutely  have too.
Reply:you will end up with a fried/melted powercableMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:NO
Reply:We had a guy forget to turn on the coolant pump once....not a pretty sight....cooked the whole power lead.
Reply:Only slightly related...one time someone in class was laying some practice beads with TIG. It was a watercooled 18 style torch I believe. He forgot to turn on the water cooler. About thirty seconds later the line burst from water pressure and sent coolant about 20 feet in every direction. The funny thing is the guy just kept going! I heard the pop across the shop and he just kept truckin.
Reply:Normal cables (1 piece) are cooled somewhat by the gas flow through them and are designed for this, water cooled  are designed to pass the rated amount when under water, they will overheat and burn up quickly without water
Reply:Thought this thread would be more useful with a pic.Shown is the result of running a watercooled TIG torch at high amps, about a minute or so after someone shut off the water flow.  Collateral damage included nearby Argon hose being melted / punctured.  This was a high temperature rated, silicone hose too.  And, I can tell you that it stank pretty badly. Attached Images
Reply:Ouch....
Reply:simply run a hose to a faucet and drain.this will let you weld just fine MR. ANTSY PANTS!
Reply:Actually you can run the torch without water.  It all depends on what amperage the torch was designed to withstand.  A 250 amp water cooled torch will probably be ok up to about 180 amps without water.  I have personal experience with it because Everlast ships their 250EX units with a water-cooled hose and torch setup, but no cooler.  The book says it's ok to use the torch without a water cooler, but not at extremely high amps for a long time.  Since my unit was new and under warranty, I followed their advice and used it dry.  It worked just fine, but I never cranked the amps over about 150.  Since it lived through that experiment, I went ahead and put a water cooler on it to reward it for being tough.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:I would assume that it's better to run a h2o torch dry than it is to run an h2o torch with the water pump turned off
Reply:Originally Posted by DougAustinTXActually you can run the torch without water.  It all depends on what amperage the torch was designed to withstand.  A 250 amp water cooled torch will probably be ok up to about 180 amps without water.  I have personal experience with it because Everlast ships their 250EX units with a water-cooled hose and torch setup, but no cooler.  The book says it's ok to use the torch without a water cooler, but not at extremely high amps for a long time.  Since my unit was new and under warranty, I followed their advice and used it dry.  It worked just fine, but I never cranked the amps over about 150.  Since it lived through that experiment, I went ahead and put a water cooler on it to reward it for being tough.
Reply:Go to pick and pull and find a VW jetta/golf/gti/passat vr6 model 99 - 04 and pull the secondary radiator from in front of the right front tire and build ya a water cooler starting with that.Welding Supervisor Department of Corrections.
Reply:Originally Posted by HeliarcmanBad advice Not sure who Everlast is, but if you take any off the shelf tig torch made by Weldcraft or other major US manufactures and start running any current through it you are taking a high risk of melting the power cable.  If you are in a hurry or your water cooler stops working, then just run tap water through it and out a drain like they did in the good old days.
Reply:Originally Posted by DougAustinTXUnless you have personally experimented with it and can back up your statement, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss my findings.  Also, please understand that I am not advocating the use of water cooled torches if a cooler or water is available, I was responding to the OP's original question of whether they CAN be used. While I'm not privy to the manufacturing secrets of  Weldcraft torches (although I own a couple of them), I feel fairly confident in saying that the conductors in the power cable of water cooled torches are probably about the same as the conductor in the air cooled torches.  The water cooled torches are rated at higher amps, not because the wire is any larger or able to carry more amps, but because they are surrounded by water to dissipate the heat.  If true, then the water cooled torches CAN be used without water, just not at the high amp ranges they are advertised at when used with coolant.  Do we have any experts in the manufacturing end of tig torches on here?
Reply:Heliarcman,you don't think the rupture is due to the increased pressure in the water line as opposed to just the heat alone?
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenHeliarcman,you don't think the rupture is due to the increased pressure in the water line as opposed to just the heat alone?
Reply:Ok, I used a miller xmt 350 set up at school with a water cooler and while I was welding up some aluminum practice pieces the water cooler got turned off thanks to a guy who hadn't learned how to walk yet.  The torch was uncooled water wise for about a minute before I noticed that it was getting really hot and I stopped tigging.  I plugged the cooler back in and let it sit for a few minutes and checked it out with the instructor and it was good to go but the torch head felt different after that and the handle was bent due to the heat and had broken internally so that the head flexed when it shouldnt have.Welding Supervisor Department of Corrections.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jay OThe heat created without having the water running will cause that water to heat up and boil/steam.
Reply:the everlast torches work fine without a cooler. I used mine that way for 2 months before I got the cooler. Be smart about it and don't overheat it. Once I got the cooler I plugged it in and haven't had a sinle problem since. So yes, you can use their torches without water running through them and have them not fail. The power cable is twice as thick as my WP20 cable and is able to take the amps without overheating.
Reply:DougAustin,That was HORRIBLE advice, telling a guy he can run up to 180A on a 250A water cooled torch with no coolant.And YES I do have experience BURNING UP water cooled torches at much lower amps than that when the water/coolant supply is interupted.  Last time a helper set my Dynasty down on the water line while I was welding.And we're not talking about Neverlast junk here, we're talking about Weldtec Speedway torches with rubber hoses.To the OP,A water cooled torch is not to be used without coolant at any amp setting, no matter what some of these uninformed clowns tell you.  If you don't believe me, I'll send you a water/power hose for a Speedway 320 so you don't have to spend $70 finding out for yourself.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDougAustin,That was HORRIBLE advice, telling a guy he can run up to 180A on a 250A water cooled torch with no coolant.And YES I do have experience BURNING UP water cooled torches at much lower amps than that when the water/coolant supply is interupted.  Last time a helper set my Dynasty down on the water line while I was welding.And we're not talking about Neverlast junk here, we're talking about Weldtec Speedway torches with rubber hoses.To the OP,A water cooled torch is not to be used without coolant at any amp setting, no matter what some of these uninformed clowns tell you.  If you don't believe me, I'll send you a water/power hose for a Speedway 320 so you don't have to spend $70 finding out for yourself.I dunno Zap... If that was your impression of "Nasty" you came off sounding like Kindergarden Teacher trying to be a Dominatrix.ROFLMAO....Later,Jason
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfI dunno Zap... If that was your impression of "Nasty" you came off sounding like Kindergarden Teacher trying to be a Dominatrix.ROFLMAO....
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDougAustin,That was HORRIBLE advice, telling a guy he can run up to 180A on a 250A water cooled torch with no coolant.And YES I do have experience BURNING UP water cooled torches at much lower amps than that when the water/coolant supply is interupted.  Last time a helper set my Dynasty down on the water line while I was welding.And we're not talking about Neverlast junk here, we're talking about Weldtec Speedway torches with rubber hoses.To the OP,A water cooled torch is not to be used without coolant at any amp setting, no matter what some of these uninformed clowns tell you.  If you don't believe me, I'll send you a water/power hose for a Speedway 320 so you don't have to spend $70 finding out for yourself.
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenHeliarcman,you don't think the rupture is due to the increased pressure in the water line as opposed to just the heat alone?
Reply:Originally Posted by DougAustinTXSundown:   All I can tell you is that the"junk Neverlast" torch that comes with the "junk Neverlast" 250EX WILL hold up to welding with no water in it at all  and it IS a watercooled torch.  Apparently BC Timberwolf also was successful using the same torch without water.  So maybe they aren't completely junky after all.  I have never made the mistake of failing to have water running through my weldcraft torches so I have to defer to your expertise on that aspect.
Reply:Originally Posted by HeliarcmanThe water cooler is a closed loop system.  The pressure in the line is what every the pump is set at.
Reply:WP20 torch: 11/32" water/power leadWP18 torch: 1/2" water/power leadthe torches themselves are practically identical to other torches of the same series Attached Images
Reply:Any diff in weight?
Reply:speaking from first hand experience, I fried the torch on my 250 Ideal arc in a matter of seconds when I first got it. I hooked it up to a hose and was going to let it drain but in my excietment to try it forgot to turn the tap on. " You Can't Fix Stupid".
Reply:Originally Posted by BCTimberwolfWP20 torch: 11/32" water/power leadWP18 torch: 1/2" water/power leadthe torches themselves are practically identical to other torches of the same series
Reply:While you can go to the specifications for the torch like the 20 size in particular I think those specifications are for the torch itself.  I have a power cable for the 20 model which died and I shortened it a bit but wish I cut it in half.  I havn't tried it with a brand new cable assuming all cables are of equal guage wire equivelant.  Just that 1 5/8 steel pipe used for railing which is approx a tenth of an inch was borderline of what would work well for me on the 24.5 foot cable.  It seemed after 150 or so amps the dischagre water just got hotter.
Reply:Oh boy...  I may regret this but...I too own a 250 amp tig from everlast and also used the torch referred to by the other Elast machine owners without a cooler when I first got it.  I didn't go crazy with it but I will vouch for the fact that this particular torch can hold up to a little bit of "dry" use.However...This is not typical of all torches and shoult not be taken as a rule to be applied across the board.  With most torches, IMO it is a really bad idea to run them without some kind of coolant if they are designed for it.  It is popularly accepted fact as well.  So, in summary:If you happen to have one of the little green machines with the little blue torch with the little red button you might be ok to run it at low amperage however no one will back you up if you destroy it.  I have a question for the good folks here too.  Has anyone ever run a water cooled torch with a low volume of air or nitrogen through the coolant leads?  I know it isn't the best way and may be totally ineffective.  That's what I would like to know.  If it has been attempted by anyone here or what you guys think about it.
Reply:Why is this even a subject of debate? Water cooled torches need water, that is one fundamental property that seperates them from air cooled torches. This stuff is too expensive to ruin for no good reason, wear it out, don't rag it out.Powcon 400SM2-PD60 wire feedersMiller XR controlAlumapro push/pull gunSpeedglas 9100xBFH
Reply:What i was trying to figure out is why a person wants to throw there money away doing something half assed all the time, why not just do it the correct way the first time and be okay with it......Water cooled torches = using water , air cooled = air , literally if your in that much of a hurry go buy a frickin air cooled torch...I forgot how to change this.
Reply:Ya'll do what ya want but when I switch the Syncrowave on the cooler starts up so I can weld with a water cooled torch.If for some reason the cooler does not function the welder won't be operated until it can be operated PROPERLY.
Reply:Ahhhhhhhh Here we are at the end of another thread that has gone around in circles and upside down and sideways all in one lap so it's black flag time..Bottom line is that a watercooled torch needs water and that's that OK?Good night!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.