Stringer vs weave?

admin

I found this video on YouTube today and thought this would be a good discussion for this forum so whats your personal preference when welding uphill weave or stringer? I know their are codes that dictate each but this is simply preference not code work. I personally prefer stringers but I can weave if I have to but in all honesty i'm a downhill kind of welder.Lincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:Non code stick welding I only run stringers.  Tig welding just depends on my mood. Mig usually stringers but if needed I will weave it.Search google for stringer vs weaves, there have been lots of posts about it on a few dif. welding forums.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:For me it depends on what I have to weld with lets say its stick with 7018's then its stringers,self shielded flux core is downhill on thinner metals and stringer uphill for thicker stuff or practice,and dual shield is stringers. Also question how is the best way to run 7018s stringers? i usually keep the heat a little over 100 amps dig is normal or low but I noticed I rarely get a nice flat weld thier always lumpy with undercut.Lincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:Originally Posted by flux core joeFor me it depends on what I have to weld with lets say its stick with 7018's then its stringers,self shielded flux core is downhill on thinner metals and stringer uphill for thicker stuff or practice,and dual shield is stringers. Also question how is the best way to run 7018s stringers? i usually keep the heat a little over 100 amps dig is normal or low but I noticed I rarely get a nice flat weld thier always lumpy with undercut.
Reply:Personally, for me? Weave!Except for the root.Weaving, you can run hotter, carry more metal, eliminate worries about undercut and slag inclusions at the edges, and humped-up beads.No interpass grinding, or wire wheels, flux comes right off.What do you see as the up side for stringer beads?
Reply:Originally Posted by flux core joeFor me it depends on what I have to weld with lets say its stick with 7018's then its stringers,self shielded flux core is downhill on thinner metals and stringer uphill for thicker stuff or practice,and dual shield is stringers. Also question how is the best way to run 7018s stringers? i usually keep the heat a little over 100 amps dig is normal or low but I noticed I rarely get a nice flat weld thier always lumpy with undercut.
Reply:roughly a 100 amps with a small 180 amp engine drive and your right im running 1/8 electrodesThe only reasons I choose to stick with stringers was thier what I hear is used more granted  I heard this by word of mouth and the internet and second it had been awhile before i did any uphill welding so i played with weaves and stringers and felt stringers were easier.Last edited by flux core joe; 12-10-2013 at 11:42 PM.Lincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:Heres a few 7018 videos.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:I weave everything but 6010/6011. That is still whip & pause for all, or upside down "T" for uphill vertical. "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPug100 amps with 1/8" 7018? Run it a little hotter and it should smooth out some. When doing a stringer you may still need to "weave" a little, and pause just long enough to fill in the toes more so it doesn't get undercut.
Reply:Vertical up with 7018 for me depends on how much weld is required for the joint. For a 8mm or 10mm lap weld, I'll run one small stringer (very slightly weaving it) then a heavier, wider weave pass over top. I prefer to weave 7018 going up. Works much better for me.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I regularly see students fail a bend test with a wide cap.  I suggest that the next time to use stringers for the cap and they pass.  Wide weaves increase risk of cold lap at edges as well as increasing shrinkage stresses.  I have been shown welds at one company and the owner was so proud of this new welder he hired.  His caps as wide as one inch looked so pretty.  Yes they looked nice.  I bit my tongue and made no comment.
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerbillPersonally, for me? Weave!Except for the root.Weaving, you can run hotter, carry more metal, eliminate worries about undercut and slag inclusions at the edges, and humped-up beads.No interpass grinding, or wire wheels, flux comes right off.What do you see as the up side for stringer beads?
Reply:They always made us run stringers in school. Suppose to be stronger.  On my 3G unlimited I had it down to 95 amps on the first couple passes then bumped it up to 105 around pass number 15. It was an all day affair.A vertical weave is something i had to learn on my own, but now more often then not it is my go to for vertical up with stick or mig.  I like a small Z weave
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerbillWhat do you see as the up side for stringer beads?
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughSmaller HAZ and stronger weld
Reply:Vary good arguments here but I would like to bring up something here. Today in school I practiced with dualshield because tomorrow I take the actual 3g cert test and I noticed when I weave in a Z it seems to leave a vary scaled look hard to explain it reminds me of the ripple spacing in a whip and pause stick weld and I thought this could cause break areas as where I noticed when I ran a straight stringer it laid a sold weld with no ripple areas that I think could make a possible break area. These are all my observations and opinions sorry if its hard to understand.Lincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:What about if there is a maximum heat restriction for the weld in KiloJoules/inch?In that case stringer beads may be required to meet the restriction.(btw, I just pulled that out of nowhere - but since it was rattling around in my head for no reason I figured I'd share - )EDIT: Found this later...From Lincoln on weld distortion:10.  Minimize welding timeSince complex cycles of heating and cooling take place during welding, and since time is required for heat transmission, the time factor affects distortion. In general, it is desirable to finish the weld quickly, before a large volume of surrounding metal heats up and expands. The welding process used, type and size of electrode, welding current, and speed of travel, thus, affect the degree of shrinkage and distortion of a weldment. The use of mechanized welding equipment reduces welding time and the amount of metal affected by heat and, consequently, distortion. For example, depositing a given-size weld on thick plate with a process operating at 175 amp, 25 volts, and 3 ipm requires 87,500 joules of energy per linear inch of weld (also known as heat input). A weld with approximately the same size produced with a process operating at 310 amp, 35 volts, and 8 ipm requires 81,400 joules per linear inch. The weld made with the higher heat input generally results in a greater amount of distortion. (note: I don't want to use the words "excessive" and "more than necessary" because the weld size is, in fact, tied to the heat input. In general, the fillet weld size (in inches) is equal to the square root of the quantity of the heat input (kJ/in) divided by 500. Thus these two welds are most likely not the same size.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 12-12-2013 at 08:47 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:any inspector I have ever dealt with prefers stringers if it gets more than 3/8" wide or so
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFrom Lincoln on weld distortion:10.  Minimize welding timeSince complex cycles of heating and cooling take place during welding, and since time is required for heat transmission, the time factor affects distortion. In general, it is desirable to finish the weld quickly, before a large volume of surrounding metal heats up and expands. The welding process used, type and size of electrode, welding current, and speed of travel, thus, affect the degree of shrinkage and distortion of a weldment. The use of mechanized welding equipment reduces welding time and the amount of metal affected by heat and, consequently, distortion. For example, depositing a given-size weld on thick plate with a process operating at 175 amp, 25 volts, and 3 ipm requires 87,500 joules of energy per linear inch of weld (also known as heat input). A weld with approximately the same size produced with a process operating at 310 amp, 35 volts, and 8 ipm requires 81,400 joules per linear inch. The weld made with the higher heat input generally results in a greater amount of distortion. (note: I don't want to use the words "excessive" and "more than necessary" because the weld size is, in fact, tied to the heat input. In general, the fillet weld size (in inches) is equal to the square root of the quantity of the heat input (kJ/in) divided by 500. Thus these two welds are most likely not the same size.
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedInteresting... from what reference does this come?
Reply:stringers for the root (stick and fc) then weave 1 1/2 or 2 rod diameter on plate 1 inch and thicker. stringers only for thinner plate.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Thanks for the link.Good stuff there. talks about completing the weld as quickly as possible.  That would mean more filler, more quickly.I wish they would have dealt with the "complex heating and cooling cycles" a little bit more.Here is another good link. Go the Vertical UP Procedures page. They use a combination of both.The whole PDF is worth downloading, and keeping for reference.http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...-D90/c2420.pdfLast note:I don't even count a bead 2x the diameter of the rod a weaveAfter the Root pass, all my stringer beads are approaching 1/4". I don't think I can even run a good vertical uphill bead as narrow as 1/8" with a 1/8 7018.Have fun! If you are lucky enough to weld for a living, you are a lucky man indeed.
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerbillLast note:I don't even count a bead 2x the diameter of the rod a weaveAfter the Root pass, all my stringer beads are approaching 1/4". I don't think I can even run a good vertical uphill bead as narrow as 1/8" with a 1/8 7018.Have fun! If you are lucky enough to weld for a living, you are a lucky man indeed.
Reply:For 7018AC vertical up, I weave back and forth, about one rod width on either side of the center. Pause a fraction of a second on each end, don't pause when passing over the middle.  I hold the rod perpendicular to the joint.  Usually about 120-125A with 1/8" rod.-RuarkLincoln 3200HDHobart Stickmate LX235TWECO Fabricator 211iI had this discussion with the training foreman at the yard a few weeks ago. We have to pass xray to certify on stick and flux core, 2, 3, and 4G positions. The first thing he told us was NOT to weave the vertical plate, as it will never pass the RT.So I grabbed a handful of 11018 rods and weaved the crap out of the first test plate. Turned it in and got a withering glare in return. He reluctantly passed it on the VT and sent it to NDT. I ran another one with just stringers for the heck of it and it got sent out as well. They both passed. His response was, "well most people don't know how to weave correctly and when they jump out of the puddle it tends to trap slag in the toes." Well, my thinking is, if you can weave, then don't do it. If you don't know there is a proper way to do it, don't do it. Seems obvious to me but I guess you'd be surprised. On the FCAW portions of the certification, I weave the root, since we're using ceramic backing tape. Comes out perfect. For the fill pass and cap I weave that too. It's a small weave, and the bead sizes are roughly 3/8" so you move relatively quickly. Passed RT on those as well.So either way I believe will work, if you know what you're doing. For personal preference, I like stringers for stick, and weaving for flux core.For tig on things like plate and pipe I weave, or walk the cup. For thinner material or aluminum it's usually stringer beads. On copper nickel, I just pray, and do whatever seems to work at the time.I want to add, for stringer beads using 11018, I advise a slight side to side, U shape, or oscillation anyway. It's easy to get undercut with those rods if you don't. Or if you run it too hot. In my experience, anyway.
Reply:I would say that I go 50% one way and 50% the other.As stated, it just depends on the application.
Reply:Weave, if required.Welding uphill/hand is like pissing into a fan ! Kick the heat up, get a proper rod and downhand it.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechmanI regularly see students fail a bend test with a wide cap.  I suggest that the next time to use stringers for the cap and they pass.  Wide weaves increase risk of cold lap at edges as well as increasing shrinkage stresses.  I have been shown welds at one company and the owner was so proud of this new welder he hired.  His caps as wide as one inch looked so pretty.  Yes they looked nice.  I bit my tongue and made no comment.