12 year old interested in welding. Advice?

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Hello all! I am a stay at home mom of 6, and I know NOTHING about welding... However, my 12 year old daughter wants to learn to weld. In reality, she wants to learn to make art from metal pieces. I have no idea where to start. I know that people go to school to learn to weld, so I certainly don't think that I could just get her the supplies and let her loose with them. She is very responsible, but I would rather start small. What methods are there for joining metal? What are the pros and cons of different methods? Where is a good place to start? What equipment is needed? If you had a teenager who wanted to learn the craft of welding, what would you do? Help?And to make matters more urgent, she asked for welding equipment for christmas!! Please tell me there is some way to start small... Thanks!
Reply:Where are you located, maybe a member here is local? Many on the website would let a kid come goof off and see if she really wants to pursue the idea.For a kid who wants to do art cheaply, a small mig would be my choice.Cheap is a relative term though.Often night adult education classes are the cheapest way to learn. Here the local art community gets grants to put on workshops - some are for metal art. Find out if there is an active art community in your area.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:We live in Oxford, GA, which is about an hour from Atlanta. It would be awesome to find somewhere that she could learn if she REALLY is interested, as I know that even the cheapest equipment is pretty pricey.Are there other ways to join metal, other than welding? Im trying to find the most docile way to let her make what she wants, but dont want to just hand her a pack of JB Weld! LOL!
Reply:Hello and welcome.Knowing your location might help. I bet there's some one here possibly close to you who might be willing to help her ( and you) learn at least the basics. If you were in my area I'd be happy to work with you and her.Some organizations "teach" welding. 4-H has a welding program in some areas, as do the Boy Scouts. Not sure if Girl Scouts does that or not, but the lines on what Girl Scouts do today are a lot more blurred then when I was in Scouts and my sister was in Girl Scouts. You might even be able to contact the merit badge counselor for the Boy Scouts and have them work with her if nothing else.12 is a bit young for most school programs, unless your school district still has shop classes in Jr high. Some art programs don't have issues with younger kids though.As far as ways to connect metal together, there are all sorts of ways. Simplest being nuts and bolts, screws or pop rivets. All she'd need to really know is how to use a drill safely. I've even done some metal sculpture projects in college with epoxy glue when I was pushed for time.Next option would be soldering. She can do small copper wire sculpture with a good soldering iron and some solder and flux. Stepping up from that would be some sort of small torch that can be used for brazing and solder work. There's a whole gambut of options here. Next up from that would be Oxy Acetylene welding where you use the gas torch to actually weld vs solder. Welding is when you melt both the base metal and the filler. Solder/brazing the base metal stays solid, and you only melt the filler. OA welding takes a bit more skill tahn brazing, but I learned both in Jr High shop as a kid.Next I'd say mig welding. Of all the arc welding processes it's the simplest to learn. I can get a kid going in about 15 to 30 minutes. Most of that is safety. While they won't do code quality welds in that time, they would be more than capable of small art projects and stuff. I usually don't recommend 110v migs, but in your case, since I doubt she needs to weld anything heavy, this might be a good choice. I'd go Mig with gas vs Flux core mig, simply because it's cleaner for art projects.Next up is stick welding. It takes a bit longer to learn, but you can often find used machines real cheap. To get an inexpensive machine though you will need to have access to 230v power. You can buy ( or build) a 230v extension cord and run one off your electric dryer outlet. They do make 110v stick welders, but the cheap bottom end ones don't work so well and I'd avoid them for a kid. Better ones will set you back maybe $400+. Take a look at Ironheart_rams's work here. He did all his early art work and sculpture with  a stick machine.http://weldingweb.com/search.php?searchid=1649701Last would be tig welding. I won't go into detail on that since it's a bit much for a beginner kid to do, but it's often used for art. I helped teach a bunch of college art students to tig weld.Another slight variation would be metal forge work where she shapes hot metal like a blacksmith.If you want, I'll PM you my number and we can talk if that's easier. I help teach welding at night and some times it's easier to talk than type. There's so much information to cover, especially if you don't know all that much about basic fabrication and so on. I've tried to keep it basic and simple at this point until we get an idea where we need to concentrate on the information.Good luck, Doug..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:While it's great to have a kid interested it doing some type of "vocational" stuff at any age, the younger the person, the more likely it may be just a passing infatuation. Only you and your youngster would be able to prove or disprove that.And, while people sometimes look at the glamorous facet of anything, welding can present a few safety hazards to the one performing the welding, and/or to others in the near vicinity of where the welding is being done.For those safety concerns, there must be some competent tutoring or coaching given by a qualified weldor or welding teacher to establish some safety rules about eye protection, both for the person welding and anybody nearby.And of course there is the hot metal aspect of the craft that may not be appreciated at first glance by newbies.Some may disagree with me on this, but I feel that the safety aspect of teaching any newbie a skill that requires the use of tools and equipment should be treated with the same apprehension that you would think of if you were going to teach that person how to operate circular saw or a chainsaw.  By that I mean it is more important to hammer home the safe operating points before letting them do anything on their own.You obviously are a resourceful person.  You found this forum and inquired in an intelligent manner.Last edited by walkerweld; 12-08-2013 at 11:06 AM.
Reply:Just want to point out that if you let her start welding, you are going to have to parallel her in her practice. Things could go very wrong in a hurry. At her age, she will need a supervisor and that is you. How do YOU feel about learning to weld?I have seen some cool metal art done with a mig. A 110volt mig with Esab easygrind wire, .025 or .030 diameter with c25 gas would be what I would start a little girl on. The easygrind wire is soft and burns oh so smooth with little spatter when dialed in. Last year I dragged my little lincoln over the the University and started a group of students welding with the easygrind wire .030 in it. The ladies took to it right off and they tacked together their bridge project with the mig process. They listen so good. HTP/Usa weld has their Mig130. It is under $500, and Jeff is a very honest seller and member of this forum. Oh, let Jeff keep the fluxcore wire and have him spec out the hard wire polarity with solid wire and gas gauge kit, and bottle of gas. Maybe he will through in a hood, you never know. Give Jeff a call and see what he says. Anyway check out his site for price comparison.  http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetail...60130&CartID=1Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thank you all for the replies. After Doug's extremely informative response (((THANK YOU))), we have decided to go the route of supplying her with a large variety of nuts, bolts, screws, (what are rivets?), epoxy, and a soldering iron. This looks like something That we can figure out together. I have a question about soldering irons, though. I was looking at the Home Depot website, and it looks like some of the kits are also used for woodburning. Is this the type of thing that I would want? Will it actually work for soldering? Or do I need to get something specifically for soldering, not to be used for anything else? If the woodburning thing will work, it might be more useful for her, especially if this is just a passing phase. Are there any brands you would recommend?Thank you all so much for helping me figure this out
Reply:If you do venture into welding, and you yourself get hooked on it, we can advise. This site is full of very resourceful and helpful bunch. But beware, there are a lot of crusty old farts. So don't take adverse comments personal.Good Luck.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I would love to learn to weld! Lets see how much she loves this. If she ends up soldering projects left and right, we will get more serious about it. My brother welds, but he throws safety out the window (and has messed up his eyes as a result), so I wont ask him to teach me or my daughter a thing. I would rather learn from someone who actually follows "rules" if you know what I mean.
Reply:This gives you a basic idea how to use pop rivets. There are other types of rivets, but these are the easiest to use.Soldering irons come in different sizes and shapes.Weller makes a number of different soldering guns and irons. The typical one is the gun type like this. ( Just pulled the 1st one I found for example)http://www.homedepot.com/p/Weller-10...4#.UqShNCeCWSoThey are usually used to solder wires and so on for electrical work, but can also be used for wood burning with the right tips. If you are working with "heavy" copper electrical wire, like 14 gauge or 12 gauge solid wire you want to get a high wattage unit because you'll need the heat to get the wire up to temp quickly. The gun is hot when you pull the trigger, and cools between uses.For heavier materials I prefer a soldering iron. Again just a random example I pulled.http://www.homedepot.com/p/Weller-40...3#.UqSiJSeCWSoMy bigger irons allow me to heat joints faster than with the smaller guns I have. They also work well for doing some lite gauge sheet soldering like on small lamps. Down side is they are hot as long as they are plugged in, and even when unplugged they stay hot for a good while. Knock one off the table onto the carpet, and you will have a good chance of starting a fire if you don't pay attention to it.Copper is a great heat sink, so you need some power for "big" wire. I did a quick look at youtube for good examples of heavy wire soldering, but didn't have anything jump right out at me. there are tons of examples of jewelry soldering as well as examples of how to solder stranded wire though you can browse thru.I'm sure there are plenty of Youtube vids on gas soldering as well. If you want to go with solder, this is probably the eventual route you will take. Soldering irons can be used, but they are limited in how big of a wire you can solder well..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Not the greatest video, but it does give you some basics..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I think it's a great idea! When my granddaughter was 9, (20 now) she helped me build this. I thought she was headed for a career in welding, then she got interested in boys! Maybe run a ad in your local Craigs list to see if someone might be interested in helping her. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:The boy scouts have a new badge this year in welding, you might check to see if they have a leader in your area for that badge.  Even though she is a girl, most are flexible enough to bring her in on the lessons.  If they weren't she could call herself a venture scout and probably still get in. We have let girls participate in many events unofficially, just not the large campouts that involve multiple troops. Heck in California, she could just say she wasn't sure what sex she was and get in.
Reply:Sounds like you have your hands full. One must remember that ANY tool or machinery is only as smart as the user no matter of age. Hopefully there is a member near you willing to help. I know many of us have. Here's a couple more sites to post on.MILLER    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ng-DiscussionsHOBART    http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/forum.phpGARAGE JOURNAL http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/
Reply:There is a member wb4rt who is in Dalton Ga, I don't know how close that is to you but you might pm him and see if he can help you out..Mike
Reply:I had my kids welding scrap parts together since they were 5.  I had a lot of concerned parents talking to me.  They are in their late 20's now with no eye problems thank God.  It was pretty funny when I would have them teach older welders when they were 8 or 9.  They welded every gear, bearing, and scrap I had around into giant "art" objects.  One time, as a joke, they welded a bunch of scrap together.  They decided to put legs on it and give it to their grandmother as a coffee table.  Being a grandmother, she never threw it out, I think I will get it back someday as an inheritance. The thing would stop tanks.  As far as Christmas gifts, I would try to find her small safety glasses, gloves, and maybe a welder cap and cotton longsleeve shirt. She will need some kind of ear protection as most earplugs won't fit.  I cut a syringe end off and used it for inserting earplugs for my kids, although cabelas probably has kid sized ear and eye protection. Her hair is going to have to be short or tied back, I have seen long hair caught in drills and machinery before. Sometimes junior colleges will let teens in their class, but 12 might be pushing it. She's going to get small burns and cuts, you're going to have to be OK with that.   If you homeschool you might find a shop owner who can teach as a "provider".  In Ca there are many unconventional classes done that way, and the teacher gets paid through the chartering school. My kids did Karate, guitar, piano, gymnastics etc that way.Last edited by blackbart; 12-08-2013 at 01:18 PM.
Reply:My younger son started soldering  very early on.  Then he moved up to brass brazing and made a couple art pieces out of smallish steel wire.  He also hammered out a couple nice things in sheet metal using a sandbag made from an old pant leg.  Now he's an accomplished welder and machinist.  Start them young."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Welcome to the forum!  I had a 12 year old visit my shop the other night and had the opportunity to let him burn a couple of rods for his first venture into the "Blue Light".  Someone put a torch in my hand at the age of 8 and the "infatuation" has lasted for 51 years and I really don't see it going away anytime soon.OK, to really answer the question, we need to know what type of sculpture your daughter wants to do.  I agree that soldering is the easiest of all methods of joining metal with a metal bond, but due to the different scale of work pieces getting the correct equipment is necessary.  If she is wanting to do small copper work, then the average solder gun may suit her needs, but if she wants to do really large yard art type stuff more elaborate equipment will be required.  I do copper sculpture and usually teach the basics using copper "flashing" materiel available at most home supply stores, because it is relatively inexpensive and readily available.  "Flashing" is thin enough to work easily and soldering with a 550 watt gun or iron works quite well.  Copper wire is used for the stems and is also available at the previously mentioned sources.  There are tons of resources available on the web for copper smithing.  You will also need some method of cutting metal if you do not already have them.  I recommend a set of "aviation" snips (left, right, and straight).  A pair of wire cutters and some needle nose pliers will be helpful as well.  To shape the work pieces there is the need for hammers and "dollys" (small hand held anvils).  I won't get into that topic as I personally own over 300 hammers I have collected over my lifetime.  My usual beginning class I teach at high schools I use a claw hammer and a trailer hitch ball for an anvil because they are readily available.  That class is centered on a copper rose project and is easily soldered together.If you haven't gotten scared off yet, there is hope.  To get started, you don't really need much more than than a pair of snips, soldering iron, a beating device of some sort, and a few simple supplies.  You can add tools as needed.  Skill levels and work pieces will dictate what and when.  The tools needed in the beginning can be decent additions to the everyday home tool box, should the "infatuation" wear off, so the investment won't be a total wash.RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Wow! Thank you all for the wealth of information! I'm so happy to have found this place. And I know that my daughter will be, too.
Reply:Rouses I envy you, I have a 15-year old grandson who won't even go in my shop. Rather sit on the couch and play video games!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by RousesHello all! I am a stay at home mom of 6, and I know NOTHING about welding... However, my 12 year old daughter wants to learn to weld. In reality, she wants to learn to make art from metal pieces. I have no idea where to start. I know that people go to school to learn to weld, so I certainly don't think that I could just get her the supplies and let her loose with them. She is very responsible, but I would rather start small. What methods are there for joining metal? What are the pros and cons of different methods? Where is a good place to start? What equipment is needed? If you had a teenager who wanted to learn the craft of welding, what would you do? Help?And to make matters more urgent, she asked for welding equipment for christmas!! Please tell me there is some way to start small... Thanks!
Reply:I began learning to weld when I was around 12-13 as I recall.  I think kids by that age are pretty sharp, but need some direction.  Safety is very important, both personal safety, and safety to others, such as being careful with torches etc, and not leaving something running that could catch the house on fire.  If you were to buy her a gas welding outfit, I would recommend avoiding acetylene, due to its extremely energetic capabilities.  It is explosive beyond most other gases and can potentially self combust under the right conditions. Something like an oxy/propane or oxy/chemtane setup would be much better.  Assuming decent supervision and direction, I think it's a great idea to get her involved with creative metalwork.  An example comes to mind as to where this can lead:  I was a biology teacher for several years, and one pair of students (a married couple, and great students too) were metal artists.  They started young, and were still only in their very early 20's when I had them in class (as was I, age-wise).  They actually dropped the class towards the end of the term, as they had won a grant for $80,000 for a commissioned metal sculpture project.  I saw their portfolio, and it was amazing!I've worked with a few people over the years that have made sculpture from scrap and found objects.  They have utilized the tools from friends and places of work to make their art.  They generally didn't have much in the way of their own tools due to being poor, so scrounged what help they could from others.  One fellow in particular could really have used an oxy/fuel setup of some kind (gas torch), as then he could have cut, brazed, and welded with the same device, albeit slower than with some equipment.That said, my Dad was/is an expert with making contraptions (some fairly elaborate) with wire, epoxy, scrap of various kinds, fasteners, and tape.  If you went down this type of route, a good vise, a good hacksaw, and a good pair of pliers would go a long ways.  I think that she would benefit from having a nice place to do her work, such as a dedicated bench of some sort.  To really foster metalworking skills, a good tutor would go farther than anything you could buy.  I tried to help a neighbor girl in her late teens, and did for a short while until she became interested in other things.  Many of us would be happy to teach and direct young people (boys and girls) for a short time each week.  Additionally, it allows the student to have access to more equipment than they normally would ever be able to purchase on their own.  It's a good exercise for both students and teachers.Last edited by pbungum; 12-08-2013 at 04:59 PM.Miller Dynasty 200 DXMiller CP-300 with 30A feederHypertherm Powermax 900Oxy-fuel w/Harris torchesScotchman Glide-in bandsawMonarch 10EE latheEmi-Mec Autoturn latheDeckel FP2NC milling machinePro-Tools 105 Bender
Reply:DO NOT ! Miss this opportunity. Go at it together. Find a way to both learn and sign the waivers to allow her to go with you.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Do you homeschool?  Just wondering.  I did start all my kids and some of their friends on oxy/acetlyene welding and brazing.  In retrospect I think I would start them on a 110V MIG as suggested by some.  I started getting a reputation for letting kids in the shop after hours until one day a 14 YO boy with hair down to his waist wanted to learn to TIG weld aluminum.  I told him his hair was to dangerous to be around machinery, so if he wanted to learn, cut it, I would have to think about the TIG request.  The next week he was there with a buzz cut, so I had to hold up my end of the deal and I did teach him TIG aluminum, which is all he wanted to do, he was a bmx bike guy. He ended up recently graduating as an engineer, so hopefully his shop time was part of that. We had a lot of fun, including instant nacho's with propane torches. She will have a blast once she learns the basics. Good luck!
Reply:Thats terrible, im 15 and own over 3k in equipment already Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2Soldering can also be done with a propane blow torch. I've used the blowtorch, flux and solder wire to solder many a copper tubing.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:One safety tip. Lead solder is toxic, new code plumbing solder is lead free.If you end up with lead / tin solder you need a way to keep fumes away. small fan.Then you ware gloves or wash hands very well before doing anything else.Electrical solder is available in lead/tin and lead free. lead free is real pricy.Read the safety instructions on all products used. Ask questions if not clear.All types of welding and soldering can be done safely. Just use common sense, the correct protection gear, and keep the air clear. you will then have no problems and lots of fun.
Reply:We do homeschool.  she ends up with a good bit of time to pursue interests and learn new skills. Now Im going to make my lists of safety items and stuff to get her started soldering. She sure is going to be happy on Christmas day!
Reply:I hope this helps. http://weldingforfun.com/Kimberli is a very nice young lady and someone a 12-year old can connect with.
Reply:Thank you! This is great!
Reply:An old post on rose making.  Lot's of info and pictures posted.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...-Handmade-RoseRogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:To do a steel rose you really need some heat like a torch. However the same thing can be done with copper, and can often be done cold, or if need be the copper can be annealed ( softened) with something as simple as the flame on a gas range. You anneal the copper to soften it, then work it cold. If the copper starts to work harden, you simply reheat it to soften it again.There have also been some posts of lilies and other flowers here IIRC. All done just about the same way, but using a different pattern..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Doug:Your right about annealing the copper.  As for steel?  If you use light guage metal such as 22 ga. it will work without heat.  As a matter of fact heat is highly frowned upon as the distortion and hardening just complicates metal finishing.  To anneal copper is relatively simple.  Heat the metal to a dull red (a bit above 900 degrees F for copper) and either quench or still air cool.  Red metals (copper, brass, and bronze) recrystallize either way.  I quench in a dilute pickle bath as it removes the insitu carbon and other contaminates left on the surface.  Hammering dirty metal will drive the impurities into the surface and it will come back to haunt you in the finishing process, be it high polish or patina.16 oz. flashing material comes annealed and the beginners projects usually don't require any annealing.  One thing worth mentioning is the protective coatings on some copper stock.  I have found that much of the sheet stock is now factory coated with a clear lacquer.  I remove it with a thinner (either lacquer, or acetone) after cutting and before any hammering or shaping.   I did not bring up the annealing or pickles as they can come in later lessons.  I am hesitant to swamp a beginner with too much detail.RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Understood. I usually work in thicker sheet steel, so didn't really think of thinner stuff when you posted. I was mostly thinking of an easy way she could do this without having to get a torch at this point..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:To the OP:I live in Augusta, east of Atlanta. The Gertrude Institute of Art offers a welding course here locally. 6 weeks on Saturdays. Instructor has been welding for 50+ years in all sorts of industry. Maybe there is something like that in your area. I found out about it by posting a WANTED ad on Craigslist. Some guy sent me the information and my wife signed me up! Oh, and there was a 12 year old boy in the class and he was GOOD!!
Reply:Rouses,thanks for being a home school Mom, I appreciate folks who take the extra care for their children not to send them to the government schools.My post is about PPE that is the acronym for personal protective equipment- safety stuff to wear.Just remember that the equipment is intended to defend you from the tools, work conditions and circumstances that are used to form, shape, assemble and fabricate metals. (other materials too)Our breath is designed pretty much exclusively for fresh air so metal vapors or dust is not included in the original design.  So we have 'breathers' or air purifying respirators or filter masks. NEVER allow your children to wear paper and string over their faces and think you have given them adequate protection from dusts or vapors- the minimum is a rubberized, half face mask with the correct cartridges for the risk.The sense of smell/taste is located in the same place as the intake for our breath. The same equipment used to protect the breathing organs will go along way to protect your family's sense of smell- learn it, use it, enjoy smelling the scents He has provided.Our sight is not designed to fully defend us from dust or spraying sand or worse, metal particles that are a very regular and totally normal part of metal working from drilling for rivets to grinding to prep a weld and all in between.  If you or your family is EVER in a dusty or metal particle flying environment: ALWAYS wear safety glasses or goggles and anyone who tells you different is being silly. Sure we can blink and close the eyelid but read a little of the safety form here and appreciate that the sparks "fly faster than the blink of an eye".In fact I'd like to see her with glasses AND a face shield; AND if the particles were really flying I'd like to ask she was wearing 'splash goggles' (sealed to face at skin) instead of just 'glasses'.  [A note it turns out that all the really skilled tradesmen automatically position grinding tools to control and guide the 'line of fire' or the 'throw' of that tool but we're not at that level of skill discussions.]Our ears are designed to hear faint noises but they don't do as well with very loud noises.  If anyone of your family is EVER in a place where noise is loud enough so that a conversation is not audible, and Rouses I'm including your vacuum cleaner at home, you need some noise filtering. Ear plugs, ear phones (shooters muffs) and other devices are all available to protect your ears.  Once you loose the hearing sense, it never comes back.Our skin is a miracle, it filters while it breathes, it cools while it expels waste; but... it has temperature limits.  Finding long sleeved, well fitting shirts and jackets with long pants and well thought out foot wear are all critical to learning without paying a price greater than the rewards of the skill we're discussing.Rouses, if you wanted to guess who has been in the welding trades longest on this site, all you'd have to do line all of us up; roll up all the sleeves and look at those with all the white scars on their arms (and not one of us can deny it.)  I hardly think a 12 yr old will look becoming in her (future) prom dress with welding scars on her arms- and she doesn't have to have any either.Hands are covered in skin so I'll group them in here. I have, and so do all the others, 'badges of my hurry' on my hands. We've all been in a hurry, slipped with a tool, reached when we should have held back and countless other acts have marked out hands in ways that might have been prevented by some patience and PPE. This item is 'handshoes' or gloves. There are half dozen tasks that require different gloves, some expensive and some cheap; but without them you'll risk your hands and that's not very intelligent.  It's taken me four decades to acquire the habit (but it didn't have too, I was just in a 'hurry')  of changing gloves for the task- why wait to act reasonably; your children could be taught from the start.Small people have more problem find PPE that is really fit to their frames as the industry focuses on 'most workers' and they're mostly average sized men. But you can find adequate protection, you can find PPE and you can instill a habit to wear it, adjust it to the work, and to change it and inspect this equipment regularly.I would cheerfully give a significant bodily appendage to find a young person to teach my skills, but I do insist with all the young people I hire, work around and train they not do to their senses what I've done to mine in four decades and some in the trades.I was bullet proof, so (now)  I can't smell, or hear worth beans. I was tough so I didn't wear gloves and have some scars but luckily all the original set of fingers.  I do have white spots on both arms and plenty around my collar and chest (any of the other posters who try to deny this for themselves are not being completely forthright with you) and I can't hear that well except for a very persistent ringing which I can hear very well.I won't go into lifting or exercising but I'd do so if you figured you could take time.Would I rethink my years in the the welding trades or the work I did? NOT EVER.But I would rethink my hurried attitude, my willingness to take shortcuts and my lack of appreciation for the wear and tear I put on this standard issue carcass.  I hope you'll consider a common sense approach to your daughter's ongoing involvement with metal working, whether for art or other projects.I hope you won't take my cautions as reason to consider a prohibition, I hope you'll exercise the same care and responsibility that brought you to home schooling in the exploration of metal working with your daughter.My regards,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:Thank you for that, Kevin. I am just now learning that I am not as bulletproof as I once thought I was, too. Safety is very important here, so we will be sure to get the appropriate equipment. Can you recommend any certain gloves? With just soldering, would plain safety goggles and gloves be sufficient, or should she have more? BTW, I have never thought of ear protection. I do a lot of drilling and sawing (not regularly, but enough that I should be concerned) and have never worn ear protection... Thankfully, I can still hear just fine, but I will try to be more diligent about that in the future. Don't want to take my ears for granted!
Reply:Definitely safety glasses/ goggles when soldering. ( Personally I'm not a huge fan of goggles since they often fog. I wear glasses so I just get prescription safety glasses and be done with it for most stuff.)  Gloves, maybe. I say that because many times when working with tiny wire gloves may lack the dexterity needed. Instead something like those small adjustable armed clamps like shown in the one video might be a solution to how to handle possibly hot wires and pieces. You'd have to see how well they fit.I like the Tillman gloves that I buy from the welding supply place. Tillman has any number of different models and materials, everything from gauntlet type gloves to short mechanics gloves, thicknesses from super thin for tig, to super heavy for cutting heavy steel with a huge torch. Note that most places just sell them in Large. I have to order the medium weight gloves I like in Medium to get the size that fits me best. The Smalls were just a bit too small in my palm for my taste, but I do have one "sample" pair I bought in the super thin style in Small that I bought to try for size. I think Lincoln has come out with a line of welding gear designed around petite women.One thing with gloves, either get leather or go with synthetics specifically designed for high temps. This is especially true with the mechanics style gloves. I always cringe when I see students who cheap out and try and buy gloves from the home center. Most of the mechanics gloves they sell are all nylon, not a heat resistant synthetic like Kevlar or Nomex. Nylon melts at higher temps. Often that melted material just keeps on "burning" and fusing to your skin. Heat resistant materials don't do that.I'll agree on the ear protection around saws and other power tools. Back in my 20's I ran a saw quite a bit and can remember the discomfort after running one all day for a couple of weeks straight on one job. I look back and blame my partial hearing loss on doing that. Now I'm a huge fan of hearing protection. I typically work by myself, but I have at least 3 pairs of muffs on  my truck and two sets at home. Plus a tone of those little foam plugs both at home, the shop, and on all my trucks, including my personal vehicle. I use hearing protection when ever I cut, run a router, of most other power tools. At home I use them when ever I mow the lawn or use any other power equipment like the leaf blower or string trimmer. It sucks not being able to hear people clearly if there's even a moderate amount of background noise or if they are facing away from me. I'll disagree a bit about respiratory protection mentioned above. I use a lot of the top end disposable masks in my work vs the 1/2 face respirators. Usually when doing dusty work like sawing, running the router or mowing/ chopping up leaves when it's dry and dusty. I sweat a lot and 1/2 face respirators fill with sweat and I'd go thru cartridges like crazy. Instead I get the good 3M 8271 P95 masks with the exhaust valve. They aren't inexpensive, but lots cheaper than the cartridges. If I'm doing something where I know I'll be dealing with more fine dust or chemicals/welding fumes, that's when I break out the 1/2 face respirator and deal with it. Stuff like spraying solvents or chemicals, paint, sand blasting welding galvanized, working around molten lead or asbestos.Biggest thing with PPE is fit. If it's uncomfortable and doesn't fit well, most people won't wear it. It's pointless to have safety gear that's not used. Sadly it's too late to put it on when you need it. I wear muffs primarily because I find them more comfortable than most plugs since I often have sinus issues and plugs make me stuffy. Also I find it's easier to lift the muffs to hear if someone tries to talk to me. It took me quite a bit of searching to locate gloves that I'm comfortable with, and I'm still constantly looking at different pairs to see if I can find others that I prefer more. Every time I'm killing time in the store waiting to get served, I'm usually test fitting different gloves. Lots of guys at the school look at me like I'm crazy to wear my full leather coat, but the burn scars on the arms and chest of the coat testify that I needed it at some point. I'll deal with it being hot and heavy vs having those scars on me..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If you can find a person to teach you in person, there is much you can learn in a very short time.In terms of resourcesWelding for dummies book gives a basic overviewWall Mountain Company has some videos = I can get them from my local libary freehttp://www.weldingvideos.com/the suppliers like Miller has PDF books you can download on their website, they have a book for each process stick, mig, tig and so onIf you can find a local stained glass artist / shop, they often do starter classes and they create those glass frames with soldering copper = It's a nice place to start.She can do lots with copper wire and soldering iron = no open flames then move to other things.
Reply:rouses, a couple more thoughts along the same line that may be helpful.You have a 12 year old with interests and those interests may be strong enough to help her overcome some generational learning obstacles.  In today's world of; "I want it so I have a RIGHT to whatever my whim decides..."   (!)The young folks have some problems when they arrive in the working world to find that they are not given a free lunch and if they demand a 'free' lunch don't seem to realize that if their demand is met- it had to be taken from someone else.I suggest that if you're considering finding a local tradesman or craftsman to help with learning skills that appear to interest your daughter, you consider making a trade part of the training/educational equation.That is: I suggest that you make sure she trades an hour of sweeping up, picking up (loads that are possible for a child), taking out the trash, and returning tools to their place; in exchange for the time with the tradesman.My reasoning is that it will be very beneficial to begin to counter (current) society's somewhat false impression that is given to many people that they breath and therefore they are entitled to have what someone else has earned by hard work, persistence and personal effort.  I include in that list knowledge, skills training, and use of or exposure too a tradesman's tools and space to work.I'm not saying you'd want a 12 year old exposed to work conditions of an adult, but sweeping up the shop, racking tools, or even cleaning the head are all menial tasks that some has to do, and that can be seen as service in exchange for knowledge.  Tuition at a college or private school is nothing more than this model and we all pay taxes on our land and lunch to finance government schools.So I'm merely advocating that if you decide to look for outside the home trade/skill help? you consider making your daughter trade her gains in knowledge for services rendered at lower skilled tasks she has to trade in helping a shop in routine tasks.The basis of my argument is in the historic Master/Apprentice model going back thousands of years, and relying on it to instill a sense of respect and value in a younger person for the effort spent, and valuable experience of an older person.I waited until I was out of my parents house to do this, and could have learned plenty in those half dozen years between 12 and 18. I found a one-man shop and went to him to announce "I was his new apprentice" and showed up every day at 4:45Pm when I got off my day job.  he kicked me out, and I refused to go, so I went outside the shop and re-stacked an old pile of about 10 tons of off-cuts, deciding what went where.  Took three nights of long hours by myself, with him just walking between his buildings, glancing a me and scowling and shaking his head.   Then; he told me to go away.  I came back each afternoon and cleaned the shop, picked up tools, emptied the trash, cleaned the drill press and so on. I cleaned the head and he had a fit, and gave me 'what for' almost raising his voice.Each day he told me to get out and stay out and each day I came back and did more, and each day he cussed at me and told me he was calling the cops.  I came back and kept working to clean and organize the shop- there were three.Finally one afternoon, he asked me what I wanted. I told him, I'll work to pay you to teach me what you didn't know when you started that you wished you'd known then.  I could 'weld' but not really well enough to hold a job, and I spent a couple years with him, after I'd shown I wasn't going anywhere.I learned more from that fine man than I could explain unless you've spent a couple decades in the trade. But I wouldn't have had the chance if I showed up asking to be 'taught to weld'. Might be worth thinking about when you consider the different methods of teaching her about metal work and welding?Cheers,Kevin Morin
Reply:Rouses,My younger son started soldering pretty early on, thanks to my Dad. At about age 12 or so, he soldered up a kit robot controller for a professor at Virginia Commonwealth University, and did it better than a lot of the students in the mechanical engineering class.  Now he is a proficient welder and machinist.  Give them the challenge, give them the tools and the encouragement.  Let them succeed or fail as it may be."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder