tig welding contamination

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okay so here is the deal im welding clean aluminum about 1/8 thick. i cleaned it up with a wire wheel and then wiped it with alcohol. as i am welding i get tiny bits of sugaring through it . i am welding between 100  to 130 amps HF ac with thoriated tungsten (all i have until my ceriated tungstens get here). anyway if i dont put in filler wire i have no problem so im thinking that my problem is im pulling the filler rod to far out of the argon gas shielding. i cant seem to correct it though any one have a good way to fix my issue a way to judge myself about it while praccticing? or does anyone have a better idea of what my contamination problem is. im at about 20CFM of argon through a #7 cup with a balled up 3/32 tungsten ive tried  1/16,3/32, and 1/8(which i think is to big) filler rods and i tried both 4043 and 5056 machining aluminum fller          thanks johnmiller bobcat 250 ntsouth bend metal latheClausing verticle millrikon 17" bandsaweverlast 250exharris oxyfuel set upspeedglass AD helmet with adflo power respirator.
Reply:try using a hand SS brush. using a wheel on a drill/grinder will bury(embed) alum & oxide layer into your base metal and may be turn down gas i use 12-15 CFH  as far as pulling out of the gas envelope, its practice and watching  filleridealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Yep, definitely stainless steel brush. If you suspect the filler (if it looks clean, then I doubt it's your issue) then just start the arc on top of the filler and run along the top of it with out any dipping. This will quickly determine whether it it is your filler, or it is the dipping/exposure. 3/32 filler in either grade you mentioned should be fine.Personally, I suspect it is the high gas flow rate - when you dip your filler, you introduce additional turbulence as the gas flows around this obstacle - i.e. more chance to entrain air in the gas envelope. A lower gas rate as firedup suggests is the go. You could try the other extreme - a very low flow rate. With insufficient coverage you will probably get the same symptoms - which would confirm it is the shielding that is the issue.
Reply:I think your gas is too high. try between 8 and 15.  You can try finding a spot to rest your rod in when not dipping that is away from the heat but in the argon.  I find I can rest the tip of the rod kind of up under the edge of the cup - then when i dip i just lower the rod straight down into the puddle. but I do it really fast so the rod isnt in the puddle but for about 1/10 of a seccond.  only a little added per dip.  the motion is like a drummer using a drumstick doing a fast rithmic tapping.  This motion is more natural than the endway  "jabbing" which occasionaly I jab too far and contact the tungsten.  The drumstickstyle works really well on long straight runs like seams in tanks.  and its very easy to learn.Tim
Reply:Sugaring? you mean peppering? you probably need more electrode positive (cleaning). If your rod doesn't look perfectly shiny it should be cleaned by pulling it thru a piece of scotchbrite pad between your fingers.What is your AC wave balance set to? try more cleaningWelding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:i tried up to 90% electrode positive on the balance. i also tried turning down the gas to about 10-12 cfm . i also switched to a ceriated tungtsten and a gas lense im going to switch to a hand SS brush today and hopefully that will be the key. thanks for all your help guys!miller bobcat 250 ntsouth bend metal latheClausing verticle millrikon 17" bandsaweverlast 250exharris oxyfuel set upspeedglass AD helmet with adflo power respirator.
Reply:most will SS brush, wipe with clearner (acetone/     )(--no BRAKE cleaner) --let dry and  weld pictures will help -us in the sidelines,,,, help you moreidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:All of your settings are fine, I would even bump your gas back up a touch. When you're down that low sometimes certain joints or long arc lengths can lead to loss of shielding.  It could also make it more likely that you're going to have problems from pulling the filler to far away. No problems running 20-30cfh.  Its probably exactly as you suspect, proven by the fact that you can run a bead with no contaminates without filler.  Just practice keeping the filler to gas length as short as possible, but don't let it start to ball up either.  Also you can try rubbing it down lightly with  scotchbrite pad first.  I would turn your balance back up to 65-75% EN, 90% EP isn't going to do anymore good for you than 50% other than ball the heck out of your tungsten.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:My filler is nowhere near my shielding gas at any time between dips..It makes NO DIFFERENCE to you me or anybody else.Where do you guys come up with this?I will do the shielding gas now you have it and now you don't in front of anyone with no adverse effects..Aluminum..Stainless..Regular steel..IT DON'T MATTER!!!Been there done that way to many times to count.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterBeen there done that way to many times to count.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterMy filler is nowhere near my shielding gas at any time between dips..It makes NO DIFFERENCE to you me or anybody else.Where do you guys come up with this?I will do the shielding gas now you have it and now you don't in front of anyone with no adverse effects..Aluminum..Stainless..Regular steel..IT DON'T MATTER!!!Been there done that way to many times to count.....zap!
Reply:To each their own.Maybe it's natural I don't know..But as far as aluminum goes?Whatever....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterTo each their own.Maybe it's natural I don't know..But as far as aluminum goes?Whatever....zap!
Reply:lol that wasn't too bad, honestly I was expecting worse Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:All I am trying to state is that I have seen NO difference in any weld that I have done or anyone else has done where the filler gets out of the gas area..And I have had my share of stuff inspected in every manner also..Whatever you wish to believe is OK with me.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Whatever you wish to believe is OK with me.The thing is this isn't about what I "wish" to believe it's about fact versus fiction. FACT is if you Tig weld alloys in particular and you pull your molten filler rod away from argon coverage you WILL pull in impurities period. My problem with someone saying something like "whatever you wish to believe" is like your underminding every competent welder on this forum that doesn't agree with what you "wish to believe". You should try tigging some Titanium with that mind-set, you will have welds that are useless. Do a poll on this and see what kind of response you get. I bet the large majority will favor with the always keep your filler wire under shielding gas coverage while molten crowd.
Reply:Whatever.And with this we will continue on our own paths.We all end up in the same place.Welding for a living.And I have made a pretty good living at it....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I have to agree with showdog on this one,whatever is on the end of your filler is the next thing to enter your weld.I will agree aluminum is more forgiving,but if working with stainless,titanium,or chrome-moly this dont fly,especialy under UT or RT scrutiny.
Reply:Getting back to trying to solve the problem that the OP is having... I, recently, had what sounds like the same problem.  The apparent contamination kept getting worse, as the tank pressure dropped.  I was getting more and more frustrated, so I took the suspect tank back with 500 psi left in it, and traded for a new tank.  Tried a few runs with the new Argon, and now, once again, the beads are almost shiny enough to see my reflection in them.