Framing saw to cut through metal

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I'm thinking to get me a framing saw to cut some steel, I read that the framing saws with a Diablo steel blade are good.  Up to which thickness I can use this method?Homedepot's Ridgid 6 1/2" VS Harbor Freight 7 1/4" Chicago Electric?Thanks
Reply:The freud blades I've used were rated at 1/8" - 3/8" mild steel. I run them in my 7 1/4" worm drive.  You probably can't find a hand held saw with more torque than a worm drive. It hardly notices steel..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The saws that are designed for cutting metal have slower blade speeds than similar wood cutting saws. They usually run about 2000 - 2500 rpm.  Having tried cutting metal with a wood saw I'm convinced that the blade speed is too fast for cutting metal and the blades suffer significantly. You will be much better off buying a metal cutting saw. CharleyMiller MM252Miller Bobcat 225NTMiller DialArc HF / DIY Cooler2 Victor O/A TorchsetsMilwaukee 8" Metal SawMilwaukee Dry Cut "Chop" Saw 5 Ton Wallace Gantry Various Grinders, Benders, etc.
Reply:" The freud blades I've used were rated at 1/8" - 3/8" mild steel. I run them in my 7 1/4" worm drive. You probably can't find a hand held saw with more torque than a worm drive. It hardly notices steel."I use that exact setup old skil wormdrive with the Freud blade. Works better on 1/8, it will cut 1/4 and I haven't tried 3/8, but my opinion is thinner is better, and unless I want a fine edge plasma is better yet.The saw I wish I could get a metal blade for is my Festool you could make some beautiful cuts with that track system, alas just aluminum blades.Don't think I would use it on a sidewinder saw though, I am not a fan of those ever and it would really be hard to control in steel.They work and are worth the money till you can afford or decide to find a better way.
Reply:" I'm thinking to get me a framing saw to cut some steel"I would not go buy a saw to do this setup, if I had a saw and just needed the blade thats different.If your looking for a saw neither of your choices are good, look around and find a used USA made Skil or Milwaukee ( NOT NEW ) the last forever just change brushes. Lot of carpenters out of work right now and pawn shops have them.
Reply:Wait.  I can clear up some of this, since I'm one of the few guys out there with a circular-saw-through-steel video on YouTube.  (Which makes me a real authority, right?   )Most metal cutting blades are rated for very low RPMs, usually less than 1500 RPM.  However, Freud (and maybe other companies, too?) make 7-1/4" blades that are rated for 5500 RPM.  There are at least three models of the Freud 7-1/4" metal-cutting blade.  One has 38 teeth and is rated for 1/8" up to 3/8" steel. the one I use most has 48 teeth and it's rated for up to 1/8" thick.  Another one has 70 teeth and is rated to no more than 18 gauge.  I know of guys using the 48 tooth blade on 3/4" plate.  The lifespan of these blades will probably not be as long as the low-RPM 10" and 14" steel devil blades.  I would guess that cutting thicker metal shortens it even more.  But using a $20 Harbor Freight circular saw to chew through 3/8" or thicker steel with a $30-$40 blade is a bargain, relatively speaking.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Skil worm drive saws rock. I don't do enough work to justify one since I have other tools, but if you buy a corded circular saw those are quite nice.I've used abrasive wheels on my 6" Metabo to cut 3/8" and 1/2" plate (slowly, multiple SHALLOW passes) and I just adapted my circular saw to run them. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=114381I've used Pferd, Metabo, and Radnor, and they last about the same.Last edited by farmall; 04-26-2012 at 11:33 PM.
Reply:i use my dewalt circular saw with an abrasive wheel and have no problems cutting steelLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromThe saw I wish I could get a metal blade for is my Festool you could make some beautiful cuts with that track system, alas just aluminum blades.
Reply:" Those are super nice saws"Why I think the Festool would work well is the variable rpm dial, you could slow it down to its slowest setting which without looking in the manual is 2000 rpm's. I don't use my table saw anymore since I got the Festool, and my table saw is a 18 inch Oliver with a sliding table.Yes they are pricey, but you can make top dollar cabinets with them.
Reply:Anybody had experience with the EVOLUTION METAL SAW?
Reply:Where are you guys getting the blades from?
Reply:" Skil worm drive saws rock. I don't do enough work to justify one since I have other tools, but if you buy a corded circular saw those are quite nice"I have actually owned 4 over the years ( first was in 1978 ) every one paid for its self in the first two weeks, and of the 4 one I still have, two were dropped of 2 story roofs ( always by a helper ) and broke the frames ( I sill might fix my 8 1/4 ), and the 4th  I gave away to family.The new ones aren't the same as the old ones though.One the Evolution, Jancy makes one just like it...shop price. And that saw is designed to cut steel and will do a better job than any carpenter saw pushed into steel use.
Reply:Originally Posted by CharleyLThe saws that are designed for cutting metal have slower blade speeds than similar wood cutting saws. They usually run about 2000 - 2500 rpm.  Having tried cutting metal with a wood saw I'm convinced that the blade speed is too fast for cutting metal and the blades suffer significantly. You will be much better off buying a metal cutting saw. Charley
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArc+1.  If you want to save money, buy the Harbor Frieght "chop saw."  It's on sale this week for $69.00Here's the add: http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-14...saw-91938.html
Reply:Was hoping you'd chime in Jack. Got a question for you, but I'll PM you so not to hijack. Originally Posted by Jack OlsenWait.  I can clear up some of this, since I'm one of the few guys out there with a circular-saw-through-steel video on YouTube.  (Which makes me a real authority, right?   )Most metal cutting blades are rated for very low RPMs, usually less than 1500 RPM.  However, Freud (and maybe other companies, too?) make 7-1/4" blades that are rated for 5500 RPM.  There are at least three models of the Freud 7-1/4" metal-cutting blade.  One has 38 teeth and is rated for 1/8" up to 3/8" steel. the one I use most has 48 teeth and it's rated for up to 1/8" thick.  Another one has 70 teeth and is rated to no more than 18 gauge.  I know of guys using the 48 tooth blade on 3/4" plate.  The lifespan of these blades will probably not be as long as the low-RPM 10" and 14" steel devil blades.  I would guess that cutting thicker metal shortens it even more.  But using a $20 Harbor Freight circular saw to chew through 3/8" or thicker steel with a $30-$40 blade is a bargain, relatively speaking.
Reply:The evolution saws are good and so are their blades.   I would go for the saw with the slowest blade speed available.   I cut up to 1/4 inch steel with my Makita 6 1/2 " lithium ion saw without too much issue.  use a nice thin kerf Freud carbide wood cutting bladeTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallSkil worm drive saws rock. I don't do enough work to justify one since I have other tools, but if you buy a corded circular saw those are quite nice.I've used abrasive wheels on my 6" Metabo to cut 3/8" and 1/2" plate (slowly, multiple SHALLOW passes) and I just adapted my circular saw to run them. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=114381I've used Pferd, Metabo, and Radnor, and they last about the same.
Reply:My favorite circular saw is my second-hand Skil 77.  But I use a much cheaper HF saw for metal cutting.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:I have that wax lubricated double bladed handheld metal saw made by craftsman.  Chews through 1/8 inch steel like frigin butter.  Give a nice finish cut in the process.
Reply:I ordered a 8" Evolution Friday.  I should have it by mid week.  I have a lot of 3/8 plate I want to cut and don't want to pay another shop for shear work.  They say it will cut 1/2" plate so we will see.  I will report back with results.Dan
Reply:Originally Posted by DanD78I ordered a 8" Evolution Friday.  I should have it by mid week.  I have a lot of 3/8 plate I want to cut and don't want to pay another shop for shear work.  They say it will cut 1/2" plate so we will see.  I will report back with results.Dan
Reply:Bert the Welder sent me a PM with a question about using a circular saw and carbide-tipped metal-cutting blade to cut a 1/16" channel in mild steel stock.  Obviously, an abrasive blade wouldn't work for this since the diameter keeps shrinking as the blade gets used up.  I tried it today with a very small piece of steel -- it's a 3" square base plate left over from the fence I made.  It's a little tricky working with something this small, and I think even on a larger piece you'd have some difficulty keeping the depth of the channel uniform.  There's going to be some flex between the handle/motor and base piece of a circular saw.  But it worked all right for a quick test.  The edges would be cleaner with the circular saw running along a good straight edge.  Mine isn't as clean because I basically flipped the saw and pushed the material along an edge using the base like a table.  (I wouldn't recommend this, by the way.  )You can see I didn't clean up the edge of the piece where there's a kind of tongue of material hanging off.  The last picture shows that the three sides of the cut are pretty uniform.  (This ain't machining.  But then, I ain't a machinist.)Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:You probably can't find a hand held saw with more torque than a worm drive. It hardly notices steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jack OlsenWait.  I can clear up some of this, since I'm one of the few guys out there with a circular-saw-through-steel video on Most metal cutting blades are rated for very low RPMs, usually less than 1500 RPM.  However, Freud (and maybe other companies, too?) make 7-1/4" blades that are rated for 5500 RPM.  There are at least three models of the Freud 7-1/4" metal-cutting blade.  One has 38 teeth and is rated for 1/8" up to 3/8" steel. the one I use most has 48 teeth and it's rated for up to 1/8" thick.  Another one has 70 teeth and is rated to no more than 18 gauge.  I know of guys using the 48 tooth blade on 3/4" plate.  The lifespan of these blades will probably not be as long as the low-RPM 10" and 14" steel devil blades.  I would guess that cutting thicker metal shortens it even more.   But using a $20 Harbor Freight circular saw to chew through 3/8" or thicker steel with a $30-$40 blade is a bargain, relatively speaking.Originally Posted by Drf255WTF?  No sparks Jack?I bought a Diablo blade but have yet to use it.  I figured it would be a light show when I did.
Reply:Thanks again Jack! Good observation regarding the base flex of the saw. I've go a nice Porter/Cable with a magnesium base plate. It's much stiffer than the pressed plate bases. Could take two 1/32" passes too. Might allow for less hand pressure. Originally Posted by Jack OlsenBert the Welder sent me a PM with a question about using a circular saw and carbide-tipped metal-cutting blade to cut a 1/16" channel in mild steel stock.  Obviously, an abrasive blade wouldn't work for this since the diameter keeps shrinking as the blade gets used up.  I tried it today with a very small piece of steel -- it's a 3" square base plate left over from the fence I made.  It's a little tricky working with something this small, and I think even on a larger piece you'd have some difficulty keeping the depth of the channel uniform.  There's going to be some flex between the handle/motor and base piece of a circular saw.  But it worked all right for a quick test.  The edges would be cleaner with the circular saw running along a good straight edge.  Mine isn't as clean because I basically flipped the saw and pushed the material along an edge using the base like a table.  (I wouldn't recommend this, by the way.  )You can see I didn't clean up the edge of the piece where there's a kind of tongue of material hanging off.  The last picture shows that the three sides of the cut are pretty uniform.  (This ain't machining.  But then, I ain't a machinist.)
Reply:Sparks let you know when you've knocked off all the carbide tips........... Originally Posted by DSWWhat you are really doing is in reality a machining operation. You normally don't see sparks when cutting steel with a mill.
Reply:get a lowspeed chopsaw and put a dewalt carbide metal cutting blade on it.. it will cut through 1" plate in seconds no problemabrasive blades on high speed saws are fine but they take longer , are super loud , and throw tons of sparks and dust everywhereedit: oops i see this was recommendedLast edited by AJM; 05-05-2012 at 12:04 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanD78I ordered a 8" Evolution Friday.  I should have it by mid week.  I have a lot of 3/8 plate I want to cut and don't want to pay another shop for shear work.  They say it will cut 1/2" plate so we will see.  I will report back with results.Dan
Reply:I have a Skill worm drive 7 1/4 HD77 13 amp. Can buy a used Skill worm drive 7 1/4 SHD 77 15 amp at Pawn Shop $70. Also, have a 10 1/4 Skill Circular Saw 15 amp. Specifically,what blade should I buy and try out? Want to try and cut mild steel. Or should I buy a Jancy Metal cutting saw an be done with it.
Reply:You can get a Freud Diablo Metal Devil for $30-$40.  There's a 38-tooth model and a 48-tooth model.  Which one you use depends on the thickness of steel you plan on cutting.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:For what it's worth, I bought a Freud Metal Devil blade last year, and used it in a standard Porter-Cable circular saw.  The blade was dulled beyond use after cutting a few feet.  At that rate, it was far cheaper to simply buy a proper tool, so I got an Evolution saw ( a Fury, not the handheld one ).  The Fury has cut far more than the Freud blade did, and is still going strong on the original blade.   In my opinion, don't waste your time with the Freud blades.  You're just throwing money away.  YMMV.__David Hillman
Reply:Personally I sprung for the proper tools every time and haven't been disappointed. I have a 7 1/4 inch Evolutions Skill saw style ripping saw that I have cut literally thousands of feet of ten gauge with and only changed a couple of blades. I also have an Evolution Rage 3 compound miter saw that I use a standard evolution 10 inch steel blade on. It works great on smaller stuff. I have cut a lot of 2x4x1/8th square tube with it but definitely pushing the envelope. It is great for off my truck.2012 Lincoln Powermig 2562012 Miller Bobcat 250 EFI2009 Lincoln LN-251963 Lincoln SA 200--------------------------------------------------------Jon KennedyAll Pro Diesel Performance & MaintenanceGillette Wyoming307-696-7246
Reply:Metal cutting blades will last a lot longer if you run them at slower speeds and use a guide to keep the blade from binding in the cut. Wood cutting speeds are too high for these blades. We have learned the hard way that free hand cutting is the wrong way to use metal cutting saws. Any binding of the blade will cause the teeth to break or come off completely. Run the saw along a straightedge, a piece of angle, or anything straight clamped to the work. Keep the cut straight and continuous to the end. If you stop the cut, the work metal will develop a hard spot and break teeth when you try to resume the cut. We have had good luck with the Freud blades. You aren't using them right. You can't cut metal with a circular saw the way you can cut wood. It requires much more patience and care.Last year Harbor Freight had a 7 1/4" steel cutting blade for about $19 that was as good as the Freud blades, but they don't seem to carry them anymore. However,  they still carry their own version of metal cutting saw that uses them, so I wonder where their customers are getting blades now? It seems odd that they sell the saw, but no blades for it.  Maybe you could help by asking at your local Harbor Freight for them. They might get them back in stock if enough of us ask for them.CharleyMiller MM252Miller Bobcat 225NTMiller DialArc HF / DIY Cooler2 Victor O/A TorchsetsMilwaukee 8" Metal SawMilwaukee Dry Cut "Chop" Saw 5 Ton Wallace Gantry Various Grinders, Benders, etc.
Reply:I have the 7 1/4" Evolution metal specific saw and has been a very good investment and I have been very pleased with it.  I have used it for little over a year now cutting everything from 7 ga all the way up to 1/2"  Much faster than my Milwaukee abrasive chop saw and can obviously cut plate rather than just cut round, tube, and flat stock to length.  If you clamp some sort of straightedge and use it as a rip fence, you can get cuts as straight as a shear.  Now that I have a plasma cutter it doesn't get used as often, but still has its place if perfectly straight cuts or edges are needed.  Only on blade # 2 after a year of use.  I can get 7 1/4" metal cutting blades at my lws for about $40.  Also sears sells the evolution metal blades online for about $40 as well plus shipping.  As with any of the carbide tipped blades pinching and binding are the enemy and will quickly wipe out all the teeth.
Reply:The Evolution (and Milwaukee) circular saws spin at 3500 rpm.  This has got to be better for blade life than any 5000 rpm circular saw.  For my use, I don't think it justifies the cost of another $100+ tool.  But there's no doubt that getting one would make sense for a lot of guys.Jack OlsenMy garage website