7024 whoa's..

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Ok guys here is the deal. I got back from class alittle bit ago and I am raging mad... We are using the Lincoln 7024 1/8 rod in the horizontal position. We are required to do a min of 5/8 fillet weld with no more then 3/4 legs and throat. We are using 1/8 6010 on the root pass and everything is gravy.. NOW come the parts that pissing us all off.. After the 6010 root we are required to run the rest of the plate out with the 1/8 7024. Upon running our hot pass we all have been getting worm holes, slag inclusions, etc. Here is what i have done so farthe weldment is a T joint . 1/2" plate 45 degree top plate, PJP,.. 5/8 -3/4 fillet weld - Amps 140-190- 5-15 degree drag angle - Arc length from close to almost practically long arcing the rod-aim at top plate let weld wash down.. still problems.- aim at bottom plate let arc push slag and weld up.. still causing problemsThere's been so many things we've tried. We have yet to get a clean horizontal hot pass out of this rod.. anyone have any ideas?Owner G&S Mobile Welding & Millwright Services, LLCSpencerville, Ohio Adult Ed. Instructor at Apollo Career Center Lima, Ohio
Reply:7024 you don't long arc you don't even really short arc its more like drag it. Literally drag the rod on the metal nice and slow. I love welding 7024 I don't get to use it as much as I would like but when I do I love it.Hope this helps. I should mention this is just my way and others may have different ways that work as well.
Reply:Never heard of 7024 being used horizontal...
Reply:Originally Posted by Mega Arc 5040DD7024 you don't long arc you don't even really short arc its more like drag it. Literally drag the rod on the metal nice and slow. I love welding 7024 I don't get to use it as much as I would like but when I do I love it.Hope this helps. I should mention this is just my way and others may have different ways that work as well.
Reply:I have not run very much 7024 but I always heard it is a flat position rod only......sometimes called deck rod(floor decking)What I have run I just strike it and drag.
Reply:Originally Posted by jontheturboguyNever heard of 7024 being used horizontal...
Reply:7024 Position of Weld: Flat, Horizontal, FilletSemper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:Its a flat position rod, high deposition....Ive never heard of anyone running it out of position.They call it jetrod for a reason...
Reply:Pulled it right out of "The Procedure Handbook Of Arc Welding"7024--Fill--Higher deposition rate than 7014; suitable for flat-position welding and horizontal fillets.Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:A horizontal fillet weld is ofter confused for flat. A horizontal fillet weld it when on piece is flat and the other if vertical. An upside down "T" where as a flat fillet weld is 2 pieces forming a trough or "V" for lack of a better description. 7024 runs very well in both positions. Keep at it you will get it figured in no time.
Reply:Try a larger drag angle, book states 10 to 30 degrees. Weld with the tip lightly dragging, it will help push the slag away and have deeper penetration.Last edited by skelley521; 09-23-2011 at 12:51 AM.Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:Why are you putting your root in with 6010?  your root is already closed so why not just go at it with the 7024? Like other's have said, it is a contact rod and go slow.  If you long arc you will cause pin holes, slag inclusions and will slump your profile.  Nice tight arc.  I run literally tons of it.  You won't find a better field rod for laying down metal fast.  I can lay metal down faster with a 5 rod than I can with my mig running .035.I like running it on A/C as better than on D/C.  You may want to give it a go and see if you like it.
Reply:Scott is correct, even though polarity is AC, DCEP or DCEN. Use AC for highest speeds and best operating characteristics. DCEP can be used, but this type of current promotes arc blow and complicates control of the molten puddle. The book "New lessons in Arc Welding" also recommends AC and a 30 degree rod angle.Hope this helpsSemper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:Thanks guys all good info. I am going to sneak in to the mid day class and run this rod with this joint again. To answer some peoples thoughts. We are running 6010 roots for prep for pipe. We are moving to vertical and overhead next. Thats if i pass this plate with this dang fillet weld. Heck ill try and take some pics while im there! Owner G&S Mobile Welding & Millwright Services, LLCSpencerville, Ohio Adult Ed. Instructor at Apollo Career Center Lima, Ohio
Reply:Nice, let us know how it goes. The verts & overhead will probably be with either 6010 and/or 7018.Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:Just a guess, but your rods may be wet. Expose delectrodes should be baked at 250*C for 60 minutes.
Reply:Originally Posted by SR20stevethere ya go, 7024 is a flat postion rod.... hence the XX2X
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerJust a guess, but your rods may be wet. Expose delectrodes should be baked at 250*C for 60 minutes.
Reply:Years ago, (too many to count) we had a problem with 7024 pinholes. Believe it or not the worst rods we had for pinholes were Liquid Air (Air Liquide now) and the best were Lincoln that came in an old, not plastic wrapped 50 lb cardboard box.As Walker said, they could be really wet. Take one and short it out and see how much moisture boils out.I agree with the AC, they work much better and there's less arc blowYou want to try a real crappy rod (IMHO) go for a 7028, them puppies have to be dry as toast.....Mike
Reply:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...24/adcm23c.pdf
Reply:Wait, why are you putting a root in? If its a t-plate then there is no bevel.  Im currently in school and when we did t-plates we did not use a root whatsoever.  We just stacked 1/8 7018 rods. Wish I had started my blog in phase 2 so I would have pictures for you.  Weird that they have you using 7024.Read my welding blog:http://weldeveryday.wordpress.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by Nightman_ComethWait, why are you putting a root in? If its a t-plate then there is no bevel.  Im currently in school and when we did t-plates we did not use a root whatsoever.  We just stacked 1/8 7018 rods. Wish I had started my blog in phase 2 so I would have pictures for you.  Weird that they have you using 7024.
Reply:Originally Posted by skelley521Pulled it right out of "The Procedure Handbook Of Arc Welding"7024--Fill--Higher deposition rate than 7014; suitable for flat-position welding and horizontal fillets.
Reply:Just so there is no confusion here is the joint that we are working on. I was not able to get to class tonight. But I will also be taking pics monday.Running a 6010 root. Then finishing out the plate with 7024. WPS says min 5/8 fillet max 3/4 . 1 root pas / 1 hot pass / 2 fills/ 3 covers those are our requirements Attached ImagesOwner G&S Mobile Welding & Millwright Services, LLCSpencerville, Ohio Adult Ed. Instructor at Apollo Career Center Lima, Ohio
Reply:That makes perfect sense now that you put a picture to it.  I would use a 6010/11 for that as well.  I didn't read that these were CJP welds.  post some pictures of your welds.7024 has 50% iron powder (by weight) in the flux. It's what makes it a fast fill rod. Turn up the amps. someone suggested 165, that sounds good to me. 7024 is a heavy slag electrode, and the slag will **** up your weld. Increase your rod angle so it feels like you are dragging it. Keep a _tight_ arc. The molten slag behind the puddle will swirl if everything is working out.  7024 is still SMAW, and the SMAW fundamentals apply. Your problems can be fixed by adjusting one or more of them. So practice practice practice. The bevel on this weld is also ****ing you; the slag is trying very hard to go somewhere, and in this case it is running into the puddle. This is a weird excercise. 7024 was really designed to run fillet welds. like hundreds of them in a shift. practice enough and you will get it. I would try and fill in as much as possible with that root pass to make this groove as shallow as possible before using 7024.Everyone else needs to learn what the numbers on an electrode mean. 7024 is not deck rod. Using it is a nightmare, and anyone claiming to use it, please post up some pics of _chipped_ deck welds using 7024. The pics above are also partial pen, not full pen.Weldanpower 225 G7Ironworkers Local #24
Reply:With the illustration, I understand now, hah.Read my welding blog:http://weldeveryday.wordpress.com/