Critique thread/question AWS D1.1 3g position?

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Hey guys, Went to class yesterday and I was working on my AWS D1.1 specification in the 3g position. Was wondering If I could get some pointers or advice on making a better test coupon? Also if anyone out there knows.... what exactly does an AWS D1.1 Smaw test include. I read somewhere there was a written test for certification?!?!? I had never heard of that before. I'm not looking to take the test just trying to get some info regarding it, the more you know  Also.... I think I popped my cherry regarding being shocked while welding..... I had come back to my booth from dipping the metal i was welding on and I was going to grab the stinger. As soon as I grabbed the stinger I felt my hands lock up and this jolt went through my arms... Anyways my electrodes used were 7018, 1/8 and I was running them at about 105-115 amps. This might be a tad bit long since the pics included were taken throughout the process of welding. I gapped the plate at about 1/4 of an inch and I grinded in between passes to make sure no slag was left behind. You guys have any tips on how to reduce undercut? I had quite a bit of undercut on my cap pass.I wasn't given enough time so my cap pass came out looking a tad bit ****ty...Last edited by aav1996; 01-15-2014 at 09:04 PM.
Reply:I remember taking written tests for the D1.1 test. I seem to remember it was very basic stuff, like where do you place your leads for what polarity. Simple things like that. Far as undercut, hold longer on the sides. The one weave, I'd turn it up 10-amps or so.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Try turning up the amperage a little higher, the first few pictures look a little cold. Try weaving side to side a bit more often so that its a smoother weld, that will help every pass after it go in better. Don't try to cap until you are about 1/16" from flush so that you don't have to carry so much steel and get undercut. Also try holding the sides a little longer when weaving and move across the center faster, that should help keep the beads flat... Leave the grinder alone, practice until you don't need to grind every pass. Overall it doesn't look too bad.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:I've never taken a structural plate test where a grinder was allowed! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Ref:  http://www.fcavc.org/UserFiles/Serve...%20Package.pdfAre you training for the "unlimited" thickness cert or the 3/8" thickness cert (quals you up to 3/4")?  Test plate suggest unlimited.  The AWS website lists the test geometries for each.  Never heard of a written test requirement for "3G".  CEP has the answer.  Believe you're handed a WPS and are expected to execute the test IAW the doc.  IRT to your 7018 settings, seems the amperage is low. 90-140A is your range.  I'm also training 3G (3/8") and run'n the hot pass at 130A.  Hot and tight.Last edited by ManoKai; 01-15-2014 at 09:38 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:You need a lot more practice from what I can see. Biggest thing that would help is for you to learn how to read the puddle. I'm not really seeing evidence of that from what I'm seeing in those picts. The pointy beads say you are moving too fast and the humped centers tell me you aren't holding the sides enough and waiting for the arc to catch up to your puddle. When you can read the puddle, holding the edges and watching them fill is easy. If you can't vertical welds are not going to come out well.As others have suggested, you look a bit cold. It seems backwards, but often going a bit hotter helps you when doing vertical. 115 is about the lower end of what I'll do vertical with 7018 at typically..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:i have taken welder qual tests that did have a written part to determine proficiency in the english language and reading comprehension. i just took the d1.1 this past summer and there was no written part to it. i don't know if you can use a grinder for this test. it never occurred to me to bring one. there were 2 positions one overhead and one vertical. some tests once the plates are clamped to the fixture you can't move them. again i don't know if i could have removed the plates for chipping so i cleaned them in the fixture as well.Last edited by docwelder; 01-15-2014 at 09:45 PM.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKaiRef:  http://www.fcavc.org/UserFiles/Serve...%20Package.pdfAre you training for the "unlimited" thickness cert or the 3/8" thickness cert (quals you up to 3/4")?  Test plate suggest unlimited.  The AWS website lists the test geometries for each.  Never heard of a written test requirement for "3G".  CEP has the answer.  Believe you're handed a WPS and are expected to execute the test IAW the doc.  IRT to your 7018 settings, seems the amperage is low. 90-140A is your range.  I'm also training 3G (3/8") and run'n the hot pass at 130A.  Hot and tight.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou need a lot more practice from what I can see. Biggest thing that would help is for you to learn how to read the puddle. I'm not really seeing evidence of that from what I'm seeing in those picts. The pointy beads say you are moving too fast and the humped centers tell me you aren't holding the sides enough and waiting for the arc to catch up to your puddle. When you can read the puddle, holding the edges and watching them fill is easy. If you can't vertical welds are not going to come out well.As others have suggested, you look a bit cold. It seems backwards, but often going a bit hotter helps you when doing vertical. 115 is about the lower end of what I'll do vertical with 7018 at typically.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugTry turning up the amperage a little higher, the first few pictures look a little cold. Try weaving side to side a bit more often so that its a smoother weld, that will help every pass after it go in better. Don't try to cap until you are about 1/16" from flush so that you don't have to carry so much steel and get undercut. Also try holding the sides a little longer when weaving and move across the center faster, that should help keep the beads flat... Leave the grinder alone, practice until you don't need to grind every pass. Overall it doesn't look too bad.
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderi have taken welder qual tests that did have a written part to determine proficiency in the english language and reading comprehension. i just took the d1.1 this past summer and there was no written part to it. i don't know if you can use a grinder for this test. it never occurred to me to bring one. there were 2 positions one overhead and one vertical. some tests once the plates are clamped to the fixture you can't move them. again i don't know if i could have removed the plates for chipping so i cleaned them in the fixture as well.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI've never taken a structural plate test where a grinder was allowed!
Reply:@ aav1996 - access the vid embedded at http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...al-detail.aspx.  An excellent 3G demo by Charlie LaRichie of Lincoln Electric Welding School.  'MinnesotaDave' unearthed this score yesterday in the 6010 vs 7018 thread.  Keep training bro!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by aav1996I was told to do stringers opposed to weaving. How big of a weave do you recommend? Should I run my cap pass faster or wait for the plate too cool and run a nice weave?
Reply:Originally Posted by aav1996I originally took the grinder to help me remove the mill scale (was watching jody the other night). Somehow I ended up using it every pass hoping for a cleaner weld with no slag inclusions in it. I won't take it next class.
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ aav1996 - access the vid embedded at http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...al-detail.aspx.  An excellent 3G demo by Charlie LaRichie of Lincoln Electric Welding School.  'MinnesotaDave' unearthed this score yesterday in the 6010 vs 7018 thread.  Keep training bro!
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugI prefer stringers and if you were told to run stringers that's what you need. I wasn't talking about "Weaving", just the motion you use to keep a bead flat when welding vertical. Even with stringers it sometimes helps to move to the sides and hold a little to keep the puddle from stacking up or dripping.
Reply:My side to side motions running stringers are very small and very fast. The distance I move up with each motion is very small as well. Mostly the side to side motion as mentioned allows me to watch the sides fill to avoid undercut and level out the bead. as well as control how much material I'm laying in. Small fast motions reduce the amount of "excess" material that can trap slag.You are having issues because the high center is rolling out over the slag somewhat, or possibly you are having a bit of undercutting at the side. When you flatten out the bead and get the sides to wet in better, your issues with slag sticking go away.How hot you run depends a lot on your technique. How I weld may not be the same way you do. I like to keep the rod in really tight, so I can handle more amps. If you tend to hold a longer arc like some do, you'll need to keep the amps lower because your longer arc increases the "heat"..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWMy side to side motions running stringers are very small and very fast. The distance I move up with each motion is very small as well. Mostly the side to side motion as mentioned allows me to watch the sides fill to avoid undercut and level out the bead. as well as control how much material I'm laying in. Small fast motions reduce the amount of "excess" material that can trap slag.You are having issues because the high center is rolling out over the slag somewhat, or possibly you are having a bit of undercutting at the side. When you flatten out the bead and get the sides to wet in better, your issues with slag sticking go away.How hot you run depends a lot on your technique. How I weld may not be the same way you do. I like to keep the rod in really tight, so I can handle more amps. If you tend to hold a longer arc like some do, you'll need to keep the amps lower because your longer arc increases the "heat".
Reply:"Flatter" is relative. I'm not seeing "nice convex" beads. I'm seeing small lumpy mountains or at least moderately tall hills. You do not want the beads concave, so in that regard you are correct. I will admit some of your later beads are a bit better looking than the earlier ones. That partially tells me you could be hotter. The extra heat building up in the plates is acting somewhat like you are upping the amps, and helping knock the beads down a bit more.What I'm looking for is that the toes of the welds flow well into the previous bead or the side walls. I'm not seeing that in the early beads, though there are semi decent spots in the later ones. If the later ones were a bit more consistent that would be a big help to them. A lot of what I'm seeing there is probably due as much to inconsistency in the beads as anything else..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW"Flatter" is relative. I'm not seeing "nice convex" beads. I'm seeing small lumpy mountains or at least moderately tall hills. You do not want the beads concave, so in that regard you are correct. I will admit some of your later beads are a bit better looking than the earlier ones. That partially tells me you could be hotter. The extra heat building up in the plates is acting somewhat like you are upping the amps, and helping knock the beads down a bit more.What I'm looking for is that the toes of the welds flow well into the previous bead or the side walls. I'm not seeing that in the early beads, though there are semi decent spots in the later ones. If the later ones were a bit more consistent that would be a big help to them. A lot of what I'm seeing there is probably due as much to inconsistency in the beads as anything else.
Reply:Oh I meant to mention, just because you have the amps set at one setting, doesn't mean it has to stay there. As the piece heats up, you may have to either stop and let the piece cool down, or adjust your heat settings to compensate by turning the machine down slightly. When or if this has to be done depends on a lot of factors and you learn that thru practice..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWOh I meant to mention, just because you have the amps set at one setting, doesn't mean it has to stay there. As the piece heats up, you may have to either stop and let the piece cool down, or adjust your heat settings to compensate by turning the machine down slightly. When or if this has to be done depends on a lot of factors and you learn that thru practice.
Reply:Originally Posted by aav1996What happened if you messed up ? lemee guess...No messing up?
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPIf / when you mess up for God's sake don't panic! Stop and think about what happened. Most likely it will be the puddle boiled out and fell on the ground. No big deal! Let the plate cool for awhile. Start 1/2 to 3/4-inch above the puddle slide back down to the puddle / crater, fill and move on up. On the next pass take caution to really burn in this area. You want to get real good and getting the first two passes in really flat, no wagon tracks, once you do this you're home free! You can take a nap on all the rest of the passes. I suggest you find a good awl, small chisel, and hammer to take with you. The testing facility may or may not provide a power wire wheel, I wouldn't leave it to chance I'd take a 4-inch grinder with wire wheel.Now only I have to figure out how to put a light on it and sell it for big bucks ( inside joke)[/QUOTE]That's funny..