No words can explain this! None that can be printed here anyways.

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This is a cut copy and paste from a post I made over on the blue forum, please allow me to make all of the posts before you comment, this may take a while.This morning I got a call from a customer asking if I had some time to re-weld a fender bracket on his motorcycle. My response is "sure bring it over and let me look at it".Turns out that the bike owner just got done paying someone almost $4000 to build him a side car and install it. I took one quick glance at it and informed him that the bike was not going to leave my property with this side car still attached to it unless it was on a trailer. I advised him to get a hold of the shop that did this work and to get his money returned, I also told him that the work performed was not only shoddy, poorly designed, unsafe, negligent, and probably borderline criminal to say the least.We removed the side car and I will be rebuilding the entire thing.I'm at a loss for words to describe what I have before me, knowing that he has only had the bike back for about a week, and knowing that he has ridden with his kids in the side car is just mind blowing to me.I will be finding out the name of this "custom" bike shop and will be reporting them to the D.O.T. to be investigated before someone gets killed.There will be several posts worth of pictures so please bear with me.pics. 1,2&3 are the bike and sidecar minus the the broken fenderpic 4 is the lower front mount for the side carpic 5 is the upper front mount to the side car Attached ImagesI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:pic 6 is one of the uprights that holds the passenger tub.pic 7 is not too clear but it is another upright that has a couple of welds that are holding nothing.pic 8 is the upper mount, threaded rod not really welded into the mountpic 9 is showing a piece of the frame that has been cut and a piece spliced into it to lengthen it.pic 10 is the lower front mount that is already bent down and is less than 2" off of the street and also another piece of threaded rod the extends too low to the ground Attached ImagesI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:pic 11 is another view of the lower front mount, notice the threade rod is alredy bent backwards from hitting the groundpic 12 is the piece that the lower front mount is attached to under the passenger tubpic 13 is another tube that was cut and lengthenedpic 14 is a bolt used to be the upper shock mount, notice the full penetration of this weldpic 15 is the rear of the trailing arm on the sidecar, too much wrong to describe in one sentence, see for yourself. Attached ImagesI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:pic 16 is another view of the swing armpic 17 inside view of the swing arm and spindle mountpic 18 is the rear lower mount to the bike frame, notice one nut is barely threaded onto the stud that is obviously too shortpic 19 is the bracket holding the seat in place, the seat is nothing more than a fold down plastic boat seat that you would find on most jon boatspic 20 is the rear spindle, notice the sleeve that is in between the bearing and the king nut that as you can see has no cotter pin to hold everything in place. Attached ImagesI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:pic 21 is the spring sitting on the swing arm with out any kind of bucket for it to sit inpic 22 is another view of the spring, notice how it sits over the edge of the swing are and the nice neat cut with the oxy/acet saw.pic 23 is the lower shock mount for the swing armpic 24 is the upper mounts coming off of the bike frame, if you look close you can see the weld on the threaded rod is not so good.pic 25 is the other side of the bike, the threaded rod sticking out is the rest of pic24, also notice the steering stabilizer that was installed to impale your leg on Attached ImagesI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:pic 26 has 1/4 20 u bolts to hold the upper front mount onto the frame of the bikepic 27 is the non welded tube that holds the threaded rod to the front upper mountpic 28 another poorly welded threaded rod to the mountpic 29 another joint with threaded rod welded to itpic 30 is another view of the frame where it is attached by threaded rods, look close at the welds in the corner of the angled piece below the rods Attached ImagesI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:and we're done with the pictures nowThese last 4 pictures are of the topic of the original conversation, the broken fender mount. All I can say is "CUSTOM" to describe these pics.I hope some of these pictures entertain you as much as they frightened me. Attached ImagesI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:That is horrible!  I don't know whether to be in shock, or laugh my arse off!It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:I have seen some jacked up stuff in my life of being around Oilfield trucks and that way of life, but my god to let that go out the door knowing that some child may be riding it that is just plain negligent  I am on your side all the way to get the DOT involved to shut this cobble shop up before someone gets hurt,  I would also contact the BBB for your area and tell the customer that he should take legal action for endangering if they will not give his money back,  looks like they used a 70amp arc on it at 10amps, I want to thank you for not letting that back on the road you did the right thing
Reply:I wouldn't touch that until he gets done contacting his attorney. I'm not one who usually suggest legal action, but the has criminal negligence written all over it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if DOT doesn't want that as evidence in a criminal case. I'm thinking reckless disregard for human life here.Good post for all those NOOB's that think a little 110v mig is capable of building trailers and all. I'd put money on the fact thats the work of a little 110v mig and a self taught welder.
Reply:Dabar39, I sent you a PM with some advice.  Please read.
Reply:God that's a pretty bike...... And even though I'm not so good at welding all the time I think I could beat that on my worst day...that's plum scary.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI wouldn't touch that until he gets done contacting his attorney. I'm not one who usually suggest legal action, but the has criminal negligence written all over it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if DOT doesn't want that as evidence in a criminal case. I'm thinking reckless disregard for human life here.
Reply:Originally Posted by jetlag+184713718
Reply:Gotta love the springer front end though.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:Maybe it's some state DOT agency being referred to, but this wouldn't seem like a US DOT concern.
Reply:I will not be touching this thing until I hear back from a customer/buddy of mine that is an attorney. I'm also gonna wait to see what the guy's from D.O.T. have got to say as well as my insurance companies input about liabilities. DaveP.S. I have a feeling that this is gonna be one of those things that either I fix / rebuild / or fabricate new, otherwise someone else will and we all can see how that worked out the first time around.I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Originally Posted by dabar39I will not be touching this thing until I hear back from a customer/buddy of mine that is an attorney. I'm also gonna wait to see what the guy's from D.O.T. have got to say as well as my insurance companies input about liabilities. DaveP.S. I have a feeling that this is gonna be one of those things that either I fix / rebuild / or fabricate new, otherwise someone else will and we all can see how that worked out the first time around.
Reply:Doesn't some of that look like stick with slag entrapment? Maybe 6013? Just a guess.
Reply:You probably saved someone's life.  This "custom" shop is probably some hillbilly with a business card and a pickup truck and no liability insurance.  It is tough enough to run a business these days in the US, these kind'a guys just give attorneys hard ons.  Those welds sure look like it's probably made by Orange County Choppers.
Reply:Originally Posted by dabar39I will not be touching this thing until I hear back from a customer/buddy of mine that is an attorney. I'm also gonna wait to see what the guy's from D.O.T. have got to say as well as my insurance companies input about liabilities. DaveP.S. I have a feeling that this is gonna be one of those things that either I fix / rebuild / or fabricate new, otherwise someone else will and we all can see how that worked out the first time around.
Reply:I hope you got a locked shed cuz you may be storing that for some time.  Definately would not do any work on it till the legal issues have been settled, otherwise you might get some of the "credit".
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWGood post for all those NOOB's that think a little 110v mig is capable of building trailers and all. I'd put money on the fact thats the work of a little 110v mig and a self taught welder.
Reply:Nothing wrong with a self taght weldor and a 110v mig at all, some are likely more technically able than a pipe liner when it comes to light structural work.The problem all too often with a self taught 110 volt migger is they don't know or accept the equipment's or their own limits. Someone dumb enough to not recognize the need for proper design, structural engineering and fabrication process is often also just dumb enough to try to pull it off.Lincoln PT185 TIGLincoln 175 MIGLincoln 240 amp AC StickLind Needle Arc plasma welderPlasma cutter, soon???
Reply:If you do happen to have the pleasure of 'fixin' that mess...you might want to check to be sure most of those bolts are better than bolt bin bolts from HD...they look critical in some areas and some should have cotter pins in them for safety.I think my HH125 could do better than that and I know the HH140 could.....The shown article probably isn't because of the welder used,but more likely the weldor using the equipment.Is that the product of a bike shop(likely).... of a welding shop(doubtful).... or an imported item from overseas or Mexico? We don't want to be a part of the lawsuit,just wondering what the source of that sort of work? might be.Last edited by mudbugone; 07-21-2009 at 08:06 AM.Gotta give him credit Dave - he double nutted those U-bolts on the bike frame.I can hear his response now. . . "Well I've been welding for XX years and never had one fall apart yet!"  Or . . ."How many do you want to see that are on the road that I've built in the past?" (none thank you - I've seen enough!!).Thanks for the thread and please keep us posted.  This should be interesting.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Make me think I just might be good enough to open my own shop.I guess you'll never know a good weld if you've never seen a bad one, so thanks for this education.
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Gotta give him credit Dave - he double nutted those U-bolts on the bike frame..
Reply:>> The problem all too often with a self taught 110 volt migger is they don't know or accept the equipment's or their own limits. Someone dumb enough to not recognize the need for proper design, structural engineering and fabrication process is often also just dumb enough to try to pull it off.I agree 100%. I'm a self taught who started out with just a 110v machine. 15 years ago, with all of 2 years experience I was asked by a friend to help with his conversion of an old Suburban to a Hummvee looking thing. The help was pretty basic, I welded up brackets out of 1/8 and 1/4 inch to hold body panels, move parts like AC compressor, alternator, etc. I drew the line when he wanted me to weld brackets to the rear axle as part of some exotic 4 link setup. He insisted it will be "fine" and I insisted my machine is not capable and my skills are even less capable. I had images in my head of the rear end flying out while he was going down the highway, braking hard or off roading. He finally accepted my answer and later appreciated it when he brought it to a professional  and saw the equipment, process and skill required to properly attach those brackets.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimberwolfNothing wrong with a self taught weldor and a 110v mig at all, some are likely more technically able than a pipe liner when it comes to light structural work.The problem all too often with a self taught 110 volt migger is they don't know or accept the equipment's or their own limits. Someone dumb enough to not recognize the need for proper design, structural engineering and fabrication process is often also just dumb enough to try to pull it off.
Reply:Nice bike, lousy repair.  I hope the guy gets his money back, and that you are able to get everything straightened out.
Reply:As my 17 year old daughter would say "OH MY GAUD!!!"Dabar39 you are to be commended for not allowing this stuff back on the road.By the way on top of everything else the side car tire is on BACKWARDS!
Reply:I kinda feel for the guy who did this mess. I hope he's just really young and ignorant.!!Eager and able only works when enginuity and knowledge go hand in hand!!Too bad this guy (probably) didn't learn from the proper people.
Reply:Just like the people that watch this old house and think they can build a house next weekend. People watch orange county choppers and think they can build motorcycles. I would bet the guy went to homedepot bought a welder. Went home "welded" this pile together. Got lucky when it was just the fender that broke. Took it to several shops that wouldn't touch it. Finally you set him straight and told him it was unsafe. You saved someone's life. Hit the reset button. Time to start over Not worth trying to fix it and put your name on it.
Reply:This guy has NO clue how to weld, its not his welding machine.The piece is total srcap.
Reply:Sad thing is-- there really is no legal action 'cept small claims court.Even if DOT had authority they will not recover any money for the owner of the Bike.Criminal- unfortunately not yet- gotta actually cause death.... if only injury then it is a Civil matter.best thing is do not touch it, not even the Fender.Write up a statement detailing everything wrong with the Side Car fabrication and what it would cost for you to build a new one  so he has a better chance in Small Claims court to recover his money.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThat says it much better than I did last night. The point wasn't about the machine, or about those that are self taught, but aimed more at those who don't know any better, buy a cheap machine (usually 110 because its inexpensive and easy to plug in for no other reason) and think they can weld because they can make metal stick together. Well usually.I'm almost sorry I made that comment. I did not intend this to end up as a discussion on 110v vs 220 or trained vs self taught. The point was more towards just how many vehicles are on the road this way and how many "welders" feel the way I'm sure this one did.At least you understood your limitations Mark. I'm glad to hear it. Unfortunately many DON"T! I'm sure this is the case here. Just because you have a machine and can stick metal together (I won't use the term weld for those shown), does not mean you are qualified to build anything you want and send it down the road.Lets keep this on track. It's too important to get side tracked and end up as a fight over the merits of one machine over another or whether or not you should have formal training. I think we can all agree this guy regardles of machine and training is NOT qualified to do this sort of thing.
Reply:OMFG!!!! thats horrendous.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmNothing wrong with a 110v mig, or a self taught welder.It's the level of expertise and standards that are the problem here...Flame away...
Reply:Just realized I replied to a post on page one of two.  Please toss my post out the window....I do not want to seem like I am dog piling on this.LOL
Reply:It is job for a plasma cutter ! or a shop saw...
Reply:Dave, I'm curious about the guy who did this...Is he a kid who has no clue yet or just a hack?It's obviously garbage...
Reply:After looking at all the welds, I wasn't aware you can get paint to adhere to chickensh!t !!!!!                          MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:dam, i gotta start charging more. i normally charge $10 an hour for basic repairs, gotta start charging alot more. ive seen alot of welds like that before, highschool kids that have never welded before. im surprised he didnt check the voltage chart.Dabar39 props for not letting him drive that bike home. i need to start being more pro-active when i see things that shouldnt be on the road.I break things for a living...
Reply:WOW Sweet bike -- and the welds are ummm wow too! I just started and I can do better than that with a couple hours practice so far -- and I wont let anyone see my welds let  alone be stupid enough to use them on a sidecar where someones butt is on the line!!!!!!
Reply:as the lead fabricator and mechanic for a motorcycle shop, i want to thank you for finding and fixing that. nothing scares me more than finding something like that. the customer may get mad at the fact their machine will be tied up for a while, but i couldn't release a bike having a possible crash or worse on my conscience. thats just horrible. i've never had anything fabrication-wise come in that's THAT bad.. yet.. electrical.. yes.. other questionable "fixes" yes.. but a blatent hack job frame assembly.. no. and i really hope it doesn't ever happen!! thinking theres more than one of those out there is scary stuff.http://kawispeed.com/ -moderator and tech deluxewww.myspace.com/trickortrack -cuz i have no life
Reply:All I can say is WOW....And I hope that you end up rebuilding the entire thing because, I for one, would never work off of what I see in the pics.Come try it out and stay a while.
Reply:it was a custom job. but thanks for not letting it back on the road .Life is tuff,so be sharp  lincoln sp 100  cutmaster101  miller bobcat  miller 250 mig  $thousands in snapon
Reply:Not much new info to post but,What I have found out so far is that my buddy / customer / attorney tells me that I should not even think about doing any kind of repair / modification to this frame work. That thought hadn't even been an option anyways, I wasn't gonna try to.My insurance agent tells me that they consider a side car nothing more than a trailer so they will cover any liabilities should such a need ever arise.The girls at the D.M.V. were absolutely no help to me when I inquired about State regulations on building and selling this type of equipment. Two of the three girls had no idea what a side car was and the third one will see if she can find anything and get back to me.I was given the name and address of the side car builder and tried unsuccessfully to contact him this evening, I will be calling him first thing in the morning though. I'll wait until I make contact with him and see what he has to say about this abortion I have shown you all before I list his web address for you all to see.I'll post more info as I get it. DaveI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Sandy, I'm with you. Those are not mig welds. I see the slag there too. Those are stick welds. Frankly, I think the person who "welded" was impaired. Kudos to dabar for saving peoples lives; he should get a medal.