Metal finishing your welds.

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Reply:Any interest? I am not the best welder but I do have a understanding on how to metal finish a welded panel.
Reply:Nice looking work.  Not sure what you are proposing but I like your skills.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Any interest? I am not the best welder but I do have a understanding on how to metal finish a welded panel.[/QUOTE]Yes, I am interested.  I sure would like to know the technique you use for smoothing the weld seams.  Your work looks greatGeezerPower Mig 255C185 TIGBlue 175 MIGRanger 8 Kohler 20HP1974 5K Lincoln/Wisconsin Powered (Cherry)Victor/Harris O/AK 487 Spool Gun
Reply:Beautiful work! Did you finish the weld on the motorcycle tank before welding the bottom?  How do you decide where to split the panels?Thanks,
Reply:Thanks for the complements. I read here often but never contribute. I will try to write something up tonight, I have some people coming by to watch the afternoon Football game.I cut out for the gas cap before welding the bottom.
Reply:Man i wish i had a fraction of your talent. you are a true craftsman nice work man!Chris
Reply:very nice work....mucho time. do you do all the forming yourself or farm it out? if done by you, do you do it all by hand/old school or use an English wheel and planishing hammer? the reason i ask is because when i was young and restoring old cars i did it all by hand. the hands don't work that well anymore so i have been looking (more like dreaming) at the high dollar methods lol.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:I do shape the panels myself, the patch panel was bought though. I do most of my shaping with minimal tools, not because it is my preferred method but because I make do with what I have.Most all of my tools are made from scrap, one mans junk is another mans treasure type deal.
Reply:You do nice work! I have done a few fenders and door repairs on hot rods, though mine are good repairs I can't get to your level of finish. I do mostly residential ironwork contracting and can do things with heavier gauge steel and can achieve that sort of professional finish, as that is what I do professioally. When it comes to compound curves on body panels I have not tooled up for it, nor spent the time to educate myself on how to do it. You obviously have!
Reply:NICE TOOLS. sign of a true artist is one that makes his own tools to do his own work.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:I first off would like to say, there are many different methods to welding in panels, I can only show you how I do it.Even though the pictures I have shown, all pretty much have invisible welds, I would like to say all of that is just for show. If you come by on any given weekend and catch me welding in a 1/4 panel or something, you will find I will not go through that much trouble. Those were pictures from early on in my learning process. I started this process to help cut down on the need for body filler and I have... but to make all of your welds invisible and flow perfectly is not practical. It is way too time consuming. So now I shoot for around 85 percent and hope that is close enough that some epoxy primer and feather fill will cover the rest. I know I am not alone on this but how many of you made a patch panel that you thought was a pretty dang good fit, only to have it being a distorted disaster after you welded it in? How could that be? You jumped your tacks around, cooled it with a wet rag or even worse you did all of that on a flanged joint. I see this all of the time and to compound the problem even worse, they start hammering the surrounding metal or start torch shrinking it. Someone call 911 because we are in trouble now.Put down your wet rag the damage has already been done before you can ever get your rag to it. The only damage that has taken place is the blued area around your weld (HAZ...heat effected zone) When you added heat to the panel while welding, the metal shrunk, very easy reversible. I say never use a flanged joint because you cannot reverse the damage on this type of weld joint, you're stuck with whatever happens. If you correctly line up your panel first there is absolutely no reason to do any hammer dolly work out side of the HAZ. It was perfect before you welded and the only thing that has changed is where you introduced heat into the panel. To me this is the easiest way to explain how to weld in a panel and control the distortion.  I tig weld my panels in but if you are mig welding in your panels I would say this is the best method. You cannot hammer too long on a mig weld before it cracks. Keep up with the distortion as you go and there is very little hammering needed. Fit your panel and cut it out for the new panel (never cut out a panel until you have a new one made) Fitting a panel is a whole different thread.Before I lay down a tack I ensure I can slide my filler rod smoothly over the panel in both directionsLay down your tacks in 1'' intervalsAlready even with the tacks the metal has already started to distort. So find a dolly that matches the contour of your panel closely. Put it directly behind each tack and hammer it lightly a few times. This will re-stretch the metal. If you are mig welding in the panel you will need to grind down the proud of the weld so that it is only a few thousanths above the panel before re-stretching.Then fill in between the 1'' intervals with weld. If I have a perfect fit I just walk the puddle and fuse it. If you're thinking that weld would not be strong enough I assure you it is. Then follow the same process as we just did on the tacks on each 1'' pass. I use a slapper for this because it has a larger foot print and when the foot print is solid you are ready to move on.Last edited by jhnarial; 10-23-2011 at 09:27 PM.
Reply:In this picture you can see what happened after welding in 1''So I hit it a few times, on dolly with my slapper.Until the footprint was solid and then moved onDo that process until  you completed welding in the panel.That is a time consuming process, it takes around 30 to 45 minutes per foot. Thats a lot of time but you gain it back when it comes to doing the body work.I have been practicing a new method but have not mastered it but you can weld in a panel 5 times faster.If you can live with a little undercut, crank the amps up to about 90 and just run that puddle. Its when you stop you get puckers, if you can keep a consistent HAZ and move real fast, the distortion is very minimal. That being said, if it was easy everyone would do itThis is my contribution to the site, I am returning back to my lurker roll. If your looking for me I'll be in the shop. Last edited by jhnarial; 10-23-2011 at 09:29 PM.
Reply:Very nice. Thanks for sharing!
Reply:Originally Posted by jhnarialThis is my contribution to the site, I am returning back to my lurker roll. If your looking for me I'll be in the shop.
Reply:I noticed you said you use feather fill . JFYI .  The 'G2' FeatherFill will etche directly to the metal ifn your wanting  to  skip the epoxy stage .  I can see  the seams and curved areas needing a little mor sanding attention , over-all , descent work tho.  What gauge is that on the tank.?        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:A person could get in their real quick with a helper to hold your torch and hot forge your butt welds.The way I was taught, way back in NAIT, was pick and file, and shrink the high spots, with heat, hammer it down then quench with water.I am always improving to minimize use of filler, with pick and file, you do thin the metal down,which has always bothered me, but with 16 gauge it is easy to do it and not use filler.Available now is shrinking discs for your 9 and 4.5 inch grinder, so you don't work harden the metal.Your work is impressive, very nice.How does your work in particular change if you do not have access to the backside.Unispotter?
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerIf you have one more comment, I would like to know your approach to get the bike gas tank welds so smooth and visually seamless. Thanks
Reply:Did you make your own shrinking disc??? If not where did you get it from?? I think I have seen your work on the HAMB also, very inspirational !!Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:Here is where I bought mine.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shrinking-Di...item19c9ffa76aIt's worth investing in the backing plate. I have used several and for some reason I like this one best.
Reply:Originally Posted by jhnarialOn the tank I did use filler and would recommend using filler on a tank. I split the radius for the weld seam, The radius was 2'' so i used a 2'' radius dolly to re-stretch the weld. Used a cut off wheel to cut down the proud of the weld until it was just a few thousands above the panel. Hammer it on dolly until the weld was in the way, filed it until it was smooth and then finished it with a DA with 80 grit. I only file the weld it's self do not file any of the metal, if I thin the metal at all it is with the 80 grit and it is really minimal.
Reply:Would you care to elaborate on the planishing hammer? I would like to build one but would like the advice of someone who is familiar with them.
Reply:I never use them, way to loud for me. I would rather stretch it on a bag and wheel it smooth.
Reply:You are so Bad A$$. I wish i could do that. How do you keep your metal from rusting. Here in Houston i have never even seen what bare steel looks like because the second you get down to it it has already rusted www.performancealuminumfabrication.comOriginally Posted by jhnarialI never use them, way to loud for me. I would rather stretch it on a bag and wheel it smooth.
Reply:It's to much to write about but here are some build pictures