Multi-pass stick welding (A video)

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Today I went to the LWS to get my Argon bottle replaced, pick up some thinner stainless filler, and get a new 5lb box of 7018 rod......when i got home I had decision to make........ practice some more stainless....... with the new itsy bitsy filler......OR......burn some rod........I decided to start filling the angle iron some more....... I have never really done multi-pass before since everything I have done has pretty much been single beads..... with flux that easy to remove........ that all changed with this experiment.....I have no idea if I'm even doing this right, or even close to right.......Here's the video of this evening's fun......[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g35TEKKEUl0[/ame]Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:Hey Fex, the only time you would use a push angle would be vertical up. Just remember "if there's slag, you gotta drag" also your drag angle should be only about 5 to ten degrees from vertical. Fix that and then giver her another go.Marc Leonard
Reply:Thanks fronty,I actually tried vertical up at first then realized it is still out of my ability..... So I laid it down and went to town......I'll fix that angle and work on keeping it at 90......ThanksPrecision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:Pull, don't push.  You should be using between 5 and 15 degrees of drag.  Pause more on the edges instead of slow-poking across the middle.  Also, when your weave gets wide enough that you are really dragging your puddle back and forth (as indicated by the distinct zig-zag pattern in the weld), you should really switch to running stringers.As for the vertical up, keep your arc tight and your puddle as small as possible.  Use a pushing travel angle, and drop 10-15 amps.  Heat goes up.  You're essentially preheating your work as you weld.  If you let your puddle get too big, it'll droop in the middle, and you'll end up with lots of undercut and/or big holes.Last edited by anickode; 07-09-2012 at 11:05 PM.
Reply:Should I pull the weld up the slight incline instead of push it up the incline? The angle is sitting about 5 degrees off the table so maybe I should stand on the side and pull it along instead........I was wondering what I was going to do on the next pass since its starting to get wide....... So I just run a bunch of straight lines here on out?Thanks for the feedback........I'm sure once I get back into class this will suddenly become clear..... Like a light switch flipping on.......Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:Yes to the pulling.  5 degrees of incline is close enough to flat to be considered flat. You should stand to the side whenever possible to give yourself a better view of the puddle.  Standing at the end, especially pushing, you're blocking your own view.  Also, when running stringers, you get a better idea of your travel speed when viewing side-to side, vs relying on your depth perception to judge travel speed.Stringers are done in basically straight lines, with minimal side to side motion.  Make sure you keep your travel speed right to insure complete fusion between stringer beads.  Undercut or underfill at the toes of the stringers can capture a line of slag which is then VERY difficult to remove, especially by hand.
Reply:Thanks anickode.......I'm looking forward to burning this while box before Saturday......I told my wife this rod is fun to burn...... She rolled her eyes I'm sure......Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:7018 is great rod to burn!  It takes a certain finesse when welding out of position, but once you've got the hang of it, it's hard to beat.What machine are you running it on?
Reply:On my Lincoln TIG 175 pro.......Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:I guess I could have deduced that by looking at your signature.    I love 7018 on copper core machines.  I practiced mostly on XMT 304s and 350s, and thought it was great... but since then, I've had the pleasure of running it on my AEAD-200le and a '59 SA-200, and they both put the inverter machines to shame in terms of arc quality (and thus weld appearance)It's amazing how fast rod goes when you're practicing multi-pass.  You'll burn through that 5 lbs in no time.  I was burning through roughly 3-5 lbs per day (6010 and 7018 combined) during my welding classes when practicing thick plate and pipe.Last edited by anickode; 07-10-2012 at 12:12 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by anickodeI guess I could have deduced that by looking at your signature.    I love 7018 on copper core machines.  I practiced mostly on XMT 304s and 350s, and thought it was great... but since then, I've had the pleasure of running it on my AEAD-200le and a '59 SA-200, and they both put the inverter machines to shame in terms of arc quality (and thus weld appearance)It's amazing how fast rod goes when you're practicing multi-pass.  You'll burn through that 5 lbs in no time.  I was burning through roughly 3-5 lbs per day (6010 and 7018 combined) during my welding classes when practicing thick plate and pipe.
Reply:Well, it's another    These come around pretty regular on Tuesday nights And it's another hot day, nothing to do but soak up some sun.  (We be semi nudie types around this farmstead, except for Henry, he's sorta modest in a canine sorta way)Anyhow, back to the problem at hand.............................You need to run stringers.  Don't push the rod, pull it.I hope these will help.  If I can do it, you can too.  When doing a built-up weld, the first pass is a simple fillet weld.  Aim the rod directly into the joint at a 45 degree angle (this will change when you see how the puddle builds against the vertical plate, you'll modify the angle you point the rod as you see how the metal builds).  Drag that puppy  Slight movement side-to-side to establish the toe line.Before we go any further, I gotta establish the difference between AC 7018 and DC 7018.  AC runs with very defined ripples due to the alternating current, and DC is SMOOOOOOTH.  Here's the same rod diameter (5/32) in DC mode.  Very different from the first pic!!Anyhow, we're finished with the first pass"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Now for the second pass.  It's different, and deserves some verbage  Here's the second pass pic.  Again, AC.  Pay real close attention to how the bead was layed.  Essentially it's a flat weld, but it is fused into the first pass welll into the middle  of the bead.  You really want a flat weld to form a base for the final pass.  The top of the bead forms the slope for the third pass.Now for the final pass...............  Look how the third pass rests on the top of the second pass.  Directly on top of the prior bead.  To do this you need to move the rod from side to side to establish the line.  Anchor it in the bottom bead, and extend it onto the vertical steel to form an inclusive 45 degree angle formed by all three beads.As here   When finished, you should see a smooth regular slope at a 45 degree angle.I don't do many of these, and I'll be the first to tell you they're hard.  It takes practice, and some time to do a halfway decent job.  You'll get it"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:So stringers are half on top of each other...... I see.....Those look nice........Thanks for posting........ That will give me something to shoot for.......Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:Actually, so you get your terms straight............A stringer is a very narrow bead equal to maybe the rod size, or 2 times the rod size.  (This is a technical definition, and a stringer is generally wider).  And there is no weave in a stringer, your posted welds were weaves.  A stringer is just letting the metal make a bead with very little manipulation.  It just flows out sorta.  Maybe 1/4" wide or so, with very subtle side to side motion as you drag the rod."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:What diameter rod ? 3/32 or 1/8 ? It will be easier to control 3/32.    As far as a jack hammer , go to harbor freight and get their scaler. Can't beat it for the money. Actually, with perfect heat setting the slag will curl up and you can pop off chunks with end of rod. When I was learning from a old guy he said he just brushes the slag off with his hanky !
Reply:1/8 inch rod. On single pass welds I am almost to the point the slack almost pops off as it cools....... It doesn't curl on me like I have seen for others.....But on this little experiment the slag is almost 1/8 inch thick....... Probably because I wasn't dragging......Tomorrow I'll be in the garage after work giving it another go........Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:Yesterday I gave the Stringer idea a go. I liked it. Slag came of real easy and the filling of the angle iron is progressing nicely........I decided to only go about half way down the angle so I can use some for vertical up practice too........Another video:[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgIXasUVXl8[/ame]Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:FexalI enjoy watching your vid, and the feed back you get really helps me. Looks like you got the heat right, slag just coming off. Now for the important question, is there any other music you listen to other than guns and roses? Learning one rod at a time
Reply:There are bands other than Guns and Roses?Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:Fex, you're doin' alright!!Just IMHO, theres really no "proper" drag angle for 7018. The slag is really fluid, and all you have to do is watch the puddle. Theres a big "blob" of slag there, and you wanna hold that to the back of the puddle. Just angle your electrode forward (into the direction of travel) until the slag goes to the back of the puddle, and leave it there. The "recommendations" here that others have supplied have been really good, but at the end of the day, drag that road at whatever angle you need to, just to keep the slag back there. It can change a little depending on the joint type, angle of the joint, even the brand of electrode somewhat.Glad you're liking stick welding... I just tried out the SMAW side of my PT, and it was pretty good. One things for sure, Lincoln sure knows how to make stick welders [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:AUGHHHH!!!!!!!  Don't watch the video with headphones on with the volume cranked!  KSSSSHKKHHHHAWCHHHHH!  (my bad!)The trick with multipass welds is to know when to start doing more than one pass to fill a layer!  To soon and you risk trapping shmutz ( a technical term...) and to late, you risk lack of fusion as well as entrapment (not the movie!)   Last edited by mb_welder; 07-13-2012 at 06:48 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by mb_welderAUGHHHH!!!!!!!  Don't watch the video with headphones on with the volume cranked!  KSSSSHKKHHHHAWCHHHHH!  (my bad!)The trick with multipass welds is to know when to start doing more than one pass to fill a layer!  To soon and you risk trapping shmutz ( a technical term...) and to late, you risk lack of fusion as well as entrapment (not the movie!)
Reply:Originally Posted by dbl612 try to keep your helmet at least 10-12 inches away from the puddle (approx the length of a new electrode) to lessen eyestrain.
Reply:4 outta 4   Now that you can manipulate the puddle, the other positions will come along too.  Next step is to try some overhead horizontal fillets.On your overheads you need to concentrate on the puddle, AND JUST THE PUDDLE   You'll see slag spilling from the weld, but ignore it, it's the puddle you have to keep from spilling.Same drag motion, rod pointed almost vertical allowing the puddle to slump down to form the bottom toe.  Slight oscillation into the face of the puddle, but don't go back into the puddle or out of the puddle (avoid whipping).  It's a slower travel speed in order to allow the puddle to build the proper profile.  It's easy to travel too fast and have a wimpy bead without enough build.Sleeves buttoned, collar up, and gloves OUTSIDE your sleeves.  And try to position your body away from any falling slag.  Once you become confident you're not going to burn to a crisp you'll start truckin' A cap is a nice thing to have on your noggin too Another tip................Keep your amps up on overhead welds.  Don't do what most people suggest (turning the amps way down).  The force of the arc will keep the puddle up, and prevent it from drowning out the arc."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/Here's a few pics of my welds when I was just figuring out my overheads.  It's rocky stuff  But it took time.  At this point I had the drag and angle right, but I wasn't reading the puddle properly.  I was worrying too much about spilling the metal, and got some serious undercut.  The undercut is a result of rushing the weld without allowing the undercut to fill.It took time to get to the point I'm very comfortable working overhead.  This is a very relaxed weld.  Not rushed, amps in the upper mid range, and attention the the entire puddle and what it's doing.Again............just concentrate on the puddle, and ignore the rest of the world"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/