Block damage

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I need Help been welding for 15 years. I have this block I got that has a hole in it, its cast steel. would you guys be able to help me out and tell me your thoughts on if this could be welded and what process I should use and would MIG be ok, or if I should try to source a replacement block? I have the piece that got knocked out.thanks Attached Images
Reply:As long as there are no oil passages you can weld it.     What caused the hole?   Looks like the rod is still there.    Was it for ventilation?  Are you sure its cast steel?   What brand of motor?   John deere?  I think its cast iron.  You can cold weld it then plan on sealing it with epoxy.    That is not a motor mount boss is it?More info needed.  Nickel 99 is your friend.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Its a Cummins 4bt. and there is no oil passages in that area. Its an 05 engine was never used my work was scraping it so they had someone knock a hole in it. well i was able to get it for free. Im going to see if i can weld it instead of replacing the block. Im building an off road jeep and this would make an awesome engine for it.
Reply:I dunno man..Looks like at the end of the crack it starts going downhill like it's bent where the pan goes...What came apart to cause the window?Even with the piece that came out you are in for one hell of a battle..Are we sure it's cast steel?Don't see too many steel blocks..The proper way is to strip it to nothing and do it over because the heat required will fry gaskets and seals along the way..Tough choice..New block would be "Set it and forget it" but repairs can be a nightmare.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:It would make a nice organ donor if you can find another block. Someone here may have a lead on a block.http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/cummins4BT/
Reply:thanks im looking for a block. i could get one from cummins but its like 1200.. ouch..
Reply:Just weld it, nothing lost.  First  lets see if its cast steel.   Spark test it.   Cummins is made right here in NY state.  I have been in their factory.  I bet its not cast steel.  Small orange sparks with no tails really dim, cast Iron.   Long yellow sparks with tails its steel.  I read here  you can take the filings and rub them between your fingers.  If your fingers turn black, its cast Iron.  Never tried it.  BUT take a grinder to it before doing anything.  Know what you are working with.Don't sweat welding it, its not structural, you just need to plug the hole.  It will probably leak, that is why I suggest sealing it with epoxy when done.Edit:  Usually its a man INSIDE with a hammer wanting to get out.Last edited by David R; 11-04-2011 at 06:14 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:ok i will do the test tomorrow. i bet its cast iron to. so use Nickel 99 what flux would i use with it?
Reply:I know a Chrysler racer (9 second car) that broke a 440 like that and epoxyed an alum patch in place for a couple years, no problem. Easy Peasy ...Just a thoughtMiller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Strip it down, Bevel the edges, Heat it with a torch warm but not too hot, Keep your weld amps down, Use 3/32" 99 rod, Tack weld the patch in, Weld about an inch at a time, Peen the weld and slag off, Keep it warm but not too hot. Thats the trick!, Weld a little more. Grind it smooth. Then weld the inside and grind that smooth too. Just remember that anytime you are done working on it, Cover it with a Welding blanket or insulation, This will let it cool slow and hopefully keeping it from cracking. This is new cast with no runtime so it is still Virgin only age hardened, so it will be easier to repair.Its a free block, so if you fail......drujininLast edited by drujinin; 11-04-2011 at 08:56 PM.Reason: Spelling
Reply:Block is grey iron. Ni99 is best choice for welds that need to be machined. Nife 55 would be my choice (cheaper and still machinable). Use very short welds, around 1/2" long to under 1". Peen weld, do not lay another untill you can hold hand on welded area. Keeping heat down will reduce distortion. Distorting main bearing bores next to weld could be a problem.4B is a little heavy for a jeep, I read somewhere its heavier than a v8.PeterEquipment:2  old paws2  eyes (that don't look so good)1  bad back
Reply:What's the best peening technique?
Reply:toughest part is it looks like its broken into a freeze plug hole, then on the bottom it looks like it goes into the web partially...  I think you need to shop for a block, would suck to fix it then set your jeep up with the diesel  to find out the block is out of wack and destroys the engine, then you would have to find another engine anyways....  heck if your new broken block/engine has all new internals $1200 for a ready to assemble block isnt too much if you think about it..  about all you would need is a new gasket kit for the assembly..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:I have had good luck using stainless wire for mig to weld cast iron.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:Listen to Peter (castweld).  Search his threads.  Have personally witnessed him work his magic.  Do as he suggests and you'll be fine.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by Dre40  (snip) Its an 05 engine was never used my work was scraping it so they had someone knock a hole in it. (snip)
Reply:I'm going to try what peter suggest and strip it down and try to weld it. what temp should i run the welder at and is Nife55 an ac or dc rod? or is there a way to MIG weld it?
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireYou're kidding me, scrapping a "new" block and then punch a hole in it... Whatever...Do what castweld said, after B'slapping the guy with the hammer.Matt
Reply:i have been running a 6bta cummins in my 1/2 ton for 7 years with a similar hole. i made a sheet metal cover like a pto cover,drilled and tapped the block, made a gasket, bolted it up and have had no problems.
Reply:All this is doing is keeping the oil inside and the dirt out, so it doesn't require much, but do what you feel best doing.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:i would use ni 44
Reply:Why not brasse it? I have repaired block by brassing less likely to crack. I would not tear it down . pack inside with wet rags when done clean it out like your life depend on it. I have also miged a frosen D8 block. when done welds where heated up and some kind of crayon was rubed on weld, Air hammer was used to peen welds.
Reply:My first inclination would be to strip it all down like zap said so you don't have to worry about burning stuff up.  If it's never had oil in it, you could probably just sandblast around where you're going to weld (this is of course assuming you strip it down first).  If it's oily, I'd tank it in a chemical stripper like B17 and then rinse and outgas it before blasting and welding.  If you know anyone that does powdercoating, they could probably help you with the strip, outgas, and blast.  Not to mention powdercoating it after you finish your welding and cleanup machining.  Little bit of work and maybe some money, but probably still a lot cheaper than if you bought what you've got new.
Reply:Well I started cleaning it today. but bad news I thought I had all the pieces!. so now what? should I try a patch panel? could I weld a regular piece of steel to a cast block?
Reply:Originally Posted by jugheadi have been running a 6bta cummins in my 1/2 ton for 7 years with a similar hole. i made a sheet metal cover like a pto cover,drilled and tapped the block, made a gasket, bolted it up and have had no problems.Epoxy.
Reply:On the subject of scrapping and big companies.  I had an internship once where I was in charge of the documentation for vehicle disposal.  OEMs will keep a random car from production in storage for testing and evaluation should any warranty issues surface.  They keep them for 3 to 5 years and then scrap them.  I didnt much care if the car got scrapped that didn't have a VIN number (prototype or pre production) but when they were basically a NOS 5 year old car with 30 miles on it an a VIN number it hurt   But its a liability issue because it was or could have been used for "testing."  I will never understand financial stuff and how companies assign no monetary value to something that is clearly worth something on the market.Oh and a 4bt swap in a jeep is not uncommon.  It makes for an unstoppable vehicle that gets great fuel mileage.  I have always wanted to get a bread box and strip a 4bt out of it.Might look into Lock-n-stitch for a no welding alternative.Last edited by 85cj7boy; 11-07-2011 at 09:28 AM.Reason: Added something related to the topic :)
Reply:You can use a steel plate for a patch, just follow all the recommendations for welding the cast, You will probably have to change the rod your using
Reply:thanks guys I'm going to try welding it with silicon-bronze brazing wire. what you guys think of that? have you ever tried it?
Reply:You mean mig with silicone braze wire?Never done it, so take pictures.    The only thing I can see is the coefficient of expansion for steel and cast Iron.  The block will probably never get over 250*f.I am sure preheat will help.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:yes i mean Mig welding with silicone braze wire. i got a 2lbs roll of .030 and running it with 100% argon. I'm going to try welding it. after I strip it down and clean it up..
Reply:well I have the block stripped down. what I thought about doing is cutting out a piece of steel like the card board pattern I made and welding it in. What you guys think? any ideas suggestions? should I bolt a piece of steel across the patch with 1/4-20 grade 8 bolts like pic #2? Attached Images
Reply:i wouldnt add any more tapped holes, it'll create more stress..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:well I welded in the patch. using Silicon Bronze .030 mig wire. preheated the block before welding. I think it turned out pretty good. Attached Images
Reply:i personally would have cut a piece of cast iron to fit the hole not steel.  You can buy cast iron plates from select sources,Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:well its a little late for that lol it came out nice so I'm going to reassemble the engine and give it a try..
Reply:if it doesnt leak youll be fine, just watch it for a while for seeping around the  welds, If it starts leaking you either have porosity or its starting to crack again, If it starts cracking drill a 1/8" hole at the end of the crack and weld it back up again
Reply:Take a rubber tip blowbill and press it into patch/block seam on inside, spray soapy water on outside and look for bubbles. Work the blowbill all the way around patch seam checking as you go. If you have lots of problems in a certain area you can always grind and reweld. If you have a few small leaks covering the whole area with epoxy usually will seal it up.I usually tap on patch with hammer, if welded in well it will give sound similar to hitting it where there is no patch, if you get a thud it isn't welded as well as you think.PeterEquipment:2  old paws2  eyes (that don't look so good)1  bad back