Please critique my welds... PICS

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This was TIG'd with an Everlast 250EXI've been welding Aluminum in night school and I am practicing here at my shop on my own time with some scrap square steel tubing.  I'm not trying to win a contest but I do want to produce a quality weld.There is some undercutting on these welds, I had it a little hot at times, but I just want some general tips and suggestions and an idea if these welds would work for general fabbing?!?I was trying to preserve the edge of the tubing on this weld....
Reply:I see a need to work on heat control and uniformity. Looks like you might have your torch angle wrong with the undercut on the vertical of the flat fillet and the vertical weld. Looks like you tube corner is a bit better. I'm guessing it's because you have a large groove weld for all practical purposes. I'm not sure about what I'm seeing there. In view of some of the other issues, I'm wondering if the beads are as good as they look or if you are just filling in the gap, melting away the straight edge and piling metal up on the curved part of the 2nd tube.The best one of the lot is the flat fillet weld in the 1st pict. There is one small portion in pict 2 on the short fillet between the vertical tube and the lower one that looks very nice as well, but it's very short and your corner doesn't look like you had enough filler and you failed to maintain the arc length as the corner dropped off.To me the last weld looks too cold based on how the bead looks and how much you kept away from the edge as well as the tube configuration. I seriously doubt you got decent penetration into the upper tube. You probably should have beveled that upper tube edge some. You'd end up with a better joint and been able to stay away from the lower edge at the same time. I also see a lack of understanding about basic fab skills. The gusset is not in a great place. the center of square tube had very little resistance against bending where you put the gusset. The strong points on square tube in in line with the outer walls. To get the most out of a gusset, you'd want 2 in line with the outer walls not one in the center. That or you need to add a plate where the gusset hits the tube walls to spread the load out over a larger area. The way you have it as soon as the middle of the tube collapses you'd loose all the strength on the tube design itself and then the tube would fail if it was in bending.Also not sure why everything including the beads was sandblasted. With is all sandblasted, it's tough to tell where you dipped exactly. I'm guessing this was for some project rather than just practice because you sandblasted everything after the fact..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the reply.  This wasn't sandblasted, it is painted with Metal Cast paint.I have NO fab skills!!!  I am in welding night school right now and learning to weld, this was just some scraps I had at my shop.  As far as the gusset, what you say makes perfect sense.
Reply:I took this into welding class and here's my critique:Him: Looks good bud!Me:  What about the undercutting?Him:  Naaa, that's fine, looks good.I want to learn the right way and what to look out for but it's really hard at my local "career" center.I get a lot of practice there but not much teaching.... and when you don't know what to look for, you just practice your mistakes.
Reply:Unfortunately, in life, you will have people who are too sensitive.  I think the majority of generations to come are going to be too sensitive... too weak to hear the truth.  So some people are probably of the mind set that it is easier to deal with this issue by just never really telling some one how it is. (Especially face to face)  So what you have is a bunch of people running around thinking their **** don't stink because someone told them it was all "good" and that they could do no wrong.I wouldn't take it personal or anything, but I have noticed this as well myself from people lately.  If I'm asking for the truth, I want it.  It doesn't have to be impolite, however, but I don't want a sugar coating.Constructive criticism.  I feel your pain. :-/JoeMiller 140 Autoset (2010)Miller Syncrowave 250 (1996)
Reply:Thats funny comments.  Im laughing  at " looks good bud"    undercut.?  nahhh..    hahaBut hey,  thats not bad at all really.  Everything DSW said is what I would say too. weld it like you own it
Reply:Originally Posted by lewrayThats funny comments.  Im laughing  at " looks good bud"    undercut.?  nahhh..    hahaBut hey,  thats not bad at all really.  Everything DSW said is what I would say too.
Reply:I haven't been told angles to hold the torch other than "slight angle towards the filler rod".  I go in, sit down and practice TIG welding for 3 hours.   No books to read(I have bought two on my own and am reading them), no tests, not much help unless I go looking for him.I really feel like I haven't got my moneys worth.  Have I learned to weld a little, yes.  Could I have done that on my own time, Yes.  I paid to be instructed and taught.  I wanted to learn the whys and hows of welding, metal, filler rods, etc.     Pitiful excuse for a school.
Reply:I think schools have two different types of classes for this sort of thing.One is intended for students with a personal interest in the topic.  It is very informal and there are no tests.The other kind is for students seeking some sort of training/certification that says you know something and can used to help get a job.  This kind will cost more, be much more formal, probably have a significant amount of class-room time in addition to then hands-on stuff, and have no-non-sense tests in the class and with hands on welds; vertical, overhead, with huge gap, and maybe even have you hanging up side down working overhead... upside down. Maybe you can get into a class for some AWS cert or such, and you will might end up with an instructor that actually knows something.Last edited by razer; 12-02-2011 at 04:49 PM."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:When you end up with undercut like that, think of it as a realtime beveling operation; throw another bead down, and call it a multi-pass weld. "Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Well, there are guys in the class practicing root passes for pipe welding.  And one that is doing some sort of BIG Mig Aluminum spool thing for over the road truck repair.  It's an AWS certified school from what they told us.  And they offer some certs at the end of the class.Here's a few small welds I did this morning.  At least there's not much undercut, not sure if I got good penetration but damnit, there's no undercut!!
Reply:yikes man.. Yeah that would suck, hope its not too expensive.  Its amazing what a person who is eager to learn can gain from this forum.  I mean sometimes its like a classroom.  You have the clowns, know it alls, and much more. lolBack when I was learning, and always are, it was books and literature. Read read read... and ask ask ask.  Embarress (sp) your intructor with questions... lol weld it like you own it
Reply:Originally Posted by CGCINCI really feel like I haven't got my moneys worth.  Have I learned to weld a little, yes.  Could I have done that on my own time, Yes.  I paid to be instructed and taught.  I wanted to learn the whys and hows of welding, metal, filler rods, etc.     Pitiful excuse for a school.
Reply:Post your pics before you paint so we can see if they're fuzzy, etc.  Oh yeah, I forgot - that's not aluminum.  I'm too afraid to post pics of my welds!  I figure if I'm not welding something that would hurt someone (life safety) then I'll probably learn the hard way that my welds suck.Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:Originally Posted by patclemPost your pics before you paint so we can see if they're fuzzy, etc.  Oh yeah, I forgot - that's not aluminum.
Reply:Keep at it and keep posting pics and taking advice. That is the best way to improve. I had some down time tonight at work and had an old timer give me some pointers on aluminum tig and he really helped me out. I haven't had a chance to do a lot of tig and just need to keep at it. I would love to take pics and have mine judged but no cameras are allowed at work. Damn government.CERTIFICATIONS:7018M- H.V.O10718M- H.V.O11018M- H.V.O9N10- H.V.O71T-1-HYM- H.O.V100S1 PULSE ARC 0,035- H.O.V100S1 PULSE ARC 0.045- H.O.VER70S-3 PULSE ARC 0.035 H.O.VER70S-3 PULSE ARC 0.045 H.O.VER5554- H.O.V
Reply:Originally Posted by CGCINCHere's a few small welds I did this morning.  At least there's not much undercut, not sure if I got good penetration but damnit, there's no undercut!!
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=40Read this.Someone else just posted this in another thread...Last edited by joebie; 12-03-2011 at 09:46 AM.JoeMiller 140 Autoset (2010)Miller Syncrowave 250 (1996)
Reply:OK...  Here's a weld I just did with no paint on it.I angled the metal but I think I angled too much!?!   I also think I need a little more heat and a little more filler rod.I don't understand why Steel is harder for me than Aluminum!?!
Reply:Unprofessional opinion: Top ones look cold, and there is some undercut and more filler.  But you already mentioned that.The last picture, to me, seems the best.  But again... I'm a noob myself soooo take it with a grain of salt or less.I still have yet to TIG steel...  I'm eagerly awaiting the chance to start.  Just been busy with other things and the holidays.JoeMiller 140 Autoset (2010)Miller Syncrowave 250 (1996)
Reply:This is the last one I'm going to post for now...It's better I think.. More heat, more filler rod.  I have a hard time on my corners.I just need many hours of practice.Got a little hot back here....
Reply:Your getting there. Keep posting pics and staying on this forum, and listen to some of these guys on here. There is some very good professional talent here on this forum.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Yeah, don't stop posting pics.  It helps people learn to see it in general.  And since you aren't getting a decent instruction in class, at least there are people here who can help out for sure!JoeMiller 140 Autoset (2010)Miller Syncrowave 250 (1996)
Reply:Originally Posted by CGCINCI don't understand why Steel is harder for me than Aluminum!?!
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermick  The butt weld section once again looks like it needs a tad more heat and filler (and a bit of torch movement to make sure you blend in the sides).- MickI am always weaving the cup a little bit. It helps me with a few things, it gives me a larger smoother weld and it also helps with my timing. Get a good rhythmic motion and the weld will look nice. When I am weaving it I leave my wire right in the puddle and feed it in at a steady pace.CERTIFICATIONS:7018M- H.V.O10718M- H.V.O11018M- H.V.O9N10- H.V.O71T-1-HYM- H.O.V100S1 PULSE ARC 0,035- H.O.V100S1 PULSE ARC 0.045- H.O.VER70S-3 PULSE ARC 0.035 H.O.VER70S-3 PULSE ARC 0.045 H.O.VER5554- H.O.V
Reply:Originally Posted by CGCINCThis is one thing I Don't do.. Move the torch back and fourth.  When I first started in welding school I started on Aluminum and I would move the torch side to side on inside corners to make sure the weld "connected" to both parts.  The Instructor told me I should never need to move the torch, just keep it steady and straight.SO.... It's ok to rock the torch a little to get the heat where I need it?
Reply:Originally Posted by CGCINCThis is one thing I Don't do.. Move the torch back and fourth.  When I first started in welding school I started on Aluminum and I would move the torch side to side on inside corners to make sure the weld "connected" to both parts.  The Instructor told me I should never need to move the torch, just keep it steady and straight.SO.... It's ok to rock the torch a little to get the heat where I need it?
Reply:I finally got a decent corner.  Not saying the weld is great but at least the corner continues around in one motion.I usually weld the straights and then come back and fill in the little "hole" thats left in the corners.  With this one I just continued the bead around a little more and it looks Way better than my corners before.  So this TIG thing is like rubbin your belly, pattin your head, tappin your feet and watching a movie...All at Once!
Reply:Originally Posted by CGCINCSo this TIG thing is like rubbin your belly, pattin your head, tappin your feet and watching a movie...All at Once!
Reply:weaving the torch causes undercutting.  So does a contaminated electrode.  If you did not clean up your welds, we could see if you dunked the tungsten in the aluminum or how often,  It leaves a big black spot.  I do it all the time.  I also replace the tungsten with a clean one.Just trya the aluminum with a weave and without and let us know.Plan ahead if you can to  weld through the corners.  They look much nicer.    Starts and stops are easier on a straight run.  Fillets look good.You got it, just keep at it.DavidLast edited by David R; 12-06-2011 at 07:25 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by CGCINCI finally got a decent corner.  Not saying the weld is great but at least the corner continues around in one motion.I usually weld the straights and then come back and fill in the little "hole" thats left in the corners.  With this one I just continued the bead around a little more and it looks Way better than my corners before.  So this TIG thing is like rubbin your belly, pattin your head, tappin your feet and watching a movie...All at Once!
Reply:I did some zig zaging tonight at welding class, it did make tieing in both sides of an inside corner easier and I actually got into a nice feeling groove of doing it.As far as dipping the Tungsten, I don't do that much anymore.  I did tonight though!   I was welding square tubing together with some very tight angles and just couldn't get the cup in far enough to weld it.  I ended up tieing the two tubes together as far in as I could and then continue the weld on the side to meet the existing weld.  Thanks for all the help, I'll get there eventually!
Reply:It's funny if you look back on the first page of this thread...  My first pics of welds look terrible!!   lol