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I have an old Miller Dialarc HF and was thinking about selling it and my little miller 375 plasma cutter and buying something like the Everlast 256 to replace them. Does this sound like a good idea? I am by no means an expert on the matter, but is the Everlast going to be the ticket compared to the old Dialarc?
Reply:The operator is more important than the machine, and the Dialarc is highly durable and capable.Combined machines are more likely to fail and then you lose both processes.WTF is "the ticket"? That's not specific, it says nothing at all. What does your current setup NOT do that you wish to do?
Reply:http://dictionary.reference.com/slan...+the+ticket%21
Reply:the 375 doesnt have much cutting capacity
Reply:Like I said, not an expert here. But why would some one go out and spend several thousand on a newer Miller when an old Dialarc could be had for under 1k???
Reply:Why would anyone sell a working, workhorse of a welder to buy a Chinese POS that may or may not work out of the box.But go ahead. It sounds like you're just the type guy the importers target. Don't know sh1t. Don't want to spend much. Won't ever be good at welding anyway.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallThe operator is more important than the machine, and the Dialarc is highly durable and capable.Combined machines are more likely to fail and then you lose both processes.WTF is "the ticket"? That's not specific, it says nothing at all. What does your current setup NOT do that you wish to do?
Reply:Originally Posted by tnc110Like I said, not an expert here. But why would some one go out and spend several thousand on a newer Miller when an old Dialarc could be had for under 1k???
Reply:I recant my post! Miller products emit Toxic Blue Radiation and should be sent to me, with accessories, leads, and literature, for safe eco-friendly disposal. It's the moral thing to do to protect Gaia, our sweet Mother Earth."Hug a Tree and Send Millers To Me!" Trust me, I used to work for the government.
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550TNC, if you're a beginner then you're not getting anywhere near the boundary of the Dialarc's capabilities yet. It's a good solid machine, great for a beginner. The lack of a CV setting (for powering my RC-12 Suitcase wire feeder) is what made me eventually go to an XMT-304 as a shop power source, but I kept the Dialarc HF for a backup machine. Plus it has AC and HF, something my XMT doesn't.Your posting title is about the Dialarc, but you're complaining about the plasma, so I'm confused as to which one is the problem?I don't know what materials you're working with, but if you only need to cut steel, consider an oxy-fuel torch instead of or in addition to the plasma cutter you already have. Even the smallest cutting torch with properly sized cylinders and the right tip, will cut 4" thick steel or more. Plasma is a nice process to have, but it's a luxury that you don't really need if you're not dealing with stainless and aluminum.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallI recant my post! Miller products emit Toxic Blue Radiation and should be sent to me, with accessories, leads, and literature, for safe eco-friendly disposal. It's the moral thing to do to protect Gaia, our sweet Mother Earth."Hug a Tree and Send Millers To Me!" Trust me, I used to work for the government.
Reply:Mr tnc 110, I would be cautious about the word ignorant without going to a dictionary that generally means someone who not only doesn't understand something it also implies they have a wrong concept firmly in place in their mind.As for what more a new miller could do that your older miller can't you can go to miller website and study the operators manuals. I have studied the cst 280 manual for a few hours and it has some pictures of the volt/ amp curves and how they change for tig vs stick and for stick as you turm the knobs. I don't have a dial arc miller but have an ac dc transformer welder probably in the same general class. The older machines might have a water solenoid so one could just run total loss on the torch coolant instead of dealing with a water cooler or more water control gadgets. You do have a foot pedal don't you. The new stuff is controlled with tiny wires and you could get an amperage adjustment right on the torch which generally is not as good for most stuff if you can operate a pedal. Surely it is an advantage when you can't use the pedal and just can adjust the machine. Do you understand what a penetrate/ clean knob does in the ac mode? Dial arc doesn't have one of those does it?I know one time I had a pro welder over and on tig some little aluminum project it just kept kind of pulling back form the seam and even when I sort of got fusion one couldn't be sure. Well he took over and the molten blobs were just jumping off the filler rod and into the puddle.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallI recant my post! Miller products emit Toxic Blue Radiation and should be sent to me, with accessories, leads, and literature, for safe eco-friendly disposal. It's the moral thing to do to protect Gaia, our sweet Mother Earth."Hug a Tree and Send Millers To Me!" Trust me, I used to work for the government.
Reply:LOL! you gonna pay the shipping???
Reply:I will add to what Farmall said, only this:There is one guy on here whom you must never, never trust when he gives you information. His name is.....STICK-MAN!
Reply:the biggest thing an inverter would do that you (an in experienced welder) would notice is a much higher efficiency. (more output for less input)Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallI'll kindly perform my FMDS (Free Miller Disposal Service) but in return for my selfless volunteer work I expect them to be shipped to me prepaid and double-wrapped in new welding cable to contain the stray Homotronic Emissions. Be warned, if you continue to operate Blue machinery your family jewels will retract quicker than jet fighter landing gear, never to be seen again!
Reply:lol Rick, I am your authorized lincoln disposal provider, but I provide better service than farmall, you can ship to me cod for half of the shipping expense. thats right, for a limited time I will pay half the shipping cost, so jump on this good deal while supplies last.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:Is there anything I can do to protect myself and family?
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIWhy would anyone sell a working, workhorse of a welder to buy a Chinese POS that may or may not work out of the box.But go ahead. It sounds like you're just the type guy the importers target. Don't know sh1t. Don't want to spend much. Won't ever be good at welding anyway.
Reply:Never think ALL marketers DON'T target. While the comment was a teensy bit undiplomatic, the target market is what it is. When you ALREADY own commercial quality proven gear, time spent using it instead of thrashing by switching equipment is what to do. I'm no Zapster, but note what he turns out with an "old transformer machine"! Spend da money on CONSUMABLES and weld! While this thread turns into a poo-flinging contest, the Original Poster could be PRACTICING as easily as firing up what he already owns. Buying different guns is fun, but target practice with ONE gun pays off.
Reply:Um, This is a set up right? I think I will pass on this thread.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jake98seems we got some big fish in our little pond.. too bad. imagine having to be around somebody like that all the time? "Yeah, I'm the Big Fish.. gonna take a Big Fish Dump, right in the water here, that's what I'm gonna do.."
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick V... Dear famall, having read about the real dangers of Miller welders, I am wondering... should I be concerned about my Lincoln welders? Is there anything I can do to protect myself and family?
Reply:While I tend to agree with everyone that suggests that the old Miller is probably going to be reliable long after any of us is, it's difficult to ignore the difference in input requirements for these two machines. Depending on the circumstances, a 30-50 amp, single phase, 220V oulet may be all that is available. A cheap inverter will provide most, if not all, of it's rated output from such a receptacle, while the old Miller may well trip the breaker at start-up. The inverter is also much easier to store and transport, mostly due to the monumental size and weight of the old Miller.Let's not pretend for a moment that these machines are comparable. It's just as foolish to assume that the typical use case is comparable, despite the great temptation for a hobbiest to pick up an old industrial machine for a song. The mythical effects of certain radiation profiles aside, the real questions seem to center around the intened use for the machine in question. This may well change someday when a bunch of old front-line inverters become available cheaply on the used market, probably about the same time that the old Miller becomes infirm like the rest of us.Originally Posted by 7A749...I heard many landfills are going GREEN these days.....They're FILLED with burned up Everlast machines.....
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIWhy would anyone sell a working, workhorse of a welder to buy a Chinese POS that may or may not work out of the box.But go ahead. It sounds like you're just the type guy the importers target. Don't know sh1t. Don't want to spend much. Won't ever be good at welding anyway.
Reply:well as a beginning TIG welder the Miller will do everything you need and probably a better machine to learn on. it w till force you to learn to weld properly rather than trying to compensate for poor welding ability using advanced features. I sold my monster Transformer machine because I got my Lincoln inverter for a steal and have limited garage space. the transformer did make a noticeable difference on utility bill on the months I was using it a lot.. saw about a $50/month jump... (running off a 100amp circuit)Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by claymans13ahh, its good to see the internet isn't lacking in the keyboard commando/know it all category. Do me next, what do you know about me based on some text on a message board?
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpaw. the transformer did make a noticeable difference on utility bill on the months I was using it a lot.. saw about a $50/month jump... (running off a 100amp circuit)
Reply:do the math. lol sees chinamen in the windows. loll
Reply:Originally Posted by turkthe biggest thing an inverter would do that you (an in experienced welder) would notice is a much higher efficiency. (more output for less input)
Reply:old is good motor generators welded better than transformers all the time, the noise is the problem a paid off welder that works saves money . We run SA 800 s for gouging instead of DC 1000. s to save them. John
Reply:clayman,Don't know you from a fly on the wall as I don't know the OP. One things for sure though, I know the speal. Don't weld much, and don't want to spend a lot of money on quality. This is precisely the target audience for the Chinese importers. Don't know what they're looking at. Think they need all the "bells and whistles" to do tig welding. Think all those "bells and whistles" are going to make up for their lack of experience.Contrary to popular belief, my problem is not with goods "Made in China" as it is with the way the "importers" chose to market their products. Actually, I have a couple of items that were purchased from Harbor Freight (nothing electrical) that I bought for less than I could have purchased the materials and built them myself. These are "low use" items that are not used for "critical work".You obviously were not around the forum when the two primary "importers" made their debut. The lies told. The paid respondents. The failed machines. The deleted negative posts. The list goes on and on. Basically it was the perfect "Case Study" of how NOT TO DO BUSINESS. They've cleaned up their act a bit, but the players are the same.I've got a 30 yr old Dialarc in my shop, that I can still get serviced (seldom needed) and Miller still supports it with parts.The "importers" change the models (and production facilities) so fast that they can't support a machine built 3 yrs ago. Replacement parts are not available, so they offer a "credit" on a new machine.Understand one thing. Neither of the "importers" manufacture a damn thing. They don't design a damn thing. Their quality control is primative at best. What they do is go to China and find a manufacturer who will produce a machine with the most "bells and whistles" for the lowest price and then buy them in bulk so that they can be sold cheaply to the newbies who don't know better.Where are their welding engineers, their electrical engineers, their QC experts, etc, etc?I'm tired of arguing with idiots who wouldn't know a quality welder if it fell in their laps.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:confuse, after reading my post again, I can see that I was unclear. what I meant was that an inverter machine could get more amps output on that limited 30 amp input line. Originally Posted by con_fuse9Huh?Exactly how would he notice that? His electric bill goes for $300/mon to $298/mon?Us hobbyist don't weld enough to worry about the electric bill (or even the gas, or filler metal bill, or other consumables).As for saving $50/mon.Inverters use about 1/2 the current that a transformer based machine... Around here, after tax, tags and delivery, a KWh is .15 A dynasty 350 can pull about 45 amps, the Dialarc about 90. Call it 10 Kwh difference (45 x 230) In an hour, about $1.50. To make $50 difference, you need to max out your dialarc for about... $50/1.50 or 33 hrs..... Straight. You'll save more money by taking shorter showers and lower the temp in your hot water heater. Oh, and that assumes you have the Dialarc plugged into 100 Amp line. I had mine on 50 Amps and it worked fine even maxed out on DC. (short arc length).The biggest reason that I got rid of my Dialarc was space. I just didn't have room for it.Had I known then what I know now, I would have bought a Dynasty 200 instead and kept the Dialarc! Would have save me some cash. Oh, and I sold the Dialarc for just a bit less than what I bought it for. Paid $1000 in 1995, sold $800 in 2007ish. (I did some 'refurb' in 1995 - new paint and cleaned it.)
Reply:I see a user has just posted an HTP 201 over in for sale section. a machine like that would be a good choice for what u are wanting.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:As cheap and available as your Millers and Lincolns that are 15 to 20 years old I can't see a reason to buy ANY new machine import or not........The older machines will still out weld most experienced welders on most forums......You have to be a serious bad *** to utilize one of the new machines......That said, if you have 8 grand to spend and don't care about the learning curve go buy a new machine......I had three tig machines before I figured my work was good enough to make it right in my mind that a high end machine was in line........I still weld 20 hours a week in my shop (Retired) and can't out weld my 20 year old Lincoln....A shiny new Miller inverter machine would be nice but my drag bike was more fun........LOLhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...IMG_2803-1.jpg Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIclayman,Don't know you from a fly on the wall as I don't know the OP. One things for sure though, I know the speal. Don't weld much, and don't want to spend a lot of money on quality. This is precisely the target audience for the Chinese importers. Don't know what they're looking at. Think they need all the "bells and whistles" to do tig welding. Think all those "bells and whistles" are going to make up for their lack of experience.Contrary to popular belief, my problem is not with goods "Made in China" as it is with the way the "importers" chose to market their products. Actually, I have a couple of items that were purchased from Harbor Freight (nothing electrical) that I bought for less than I could have purchased the materials and built them myself. These are "low use" items that are not used for "critical work".You obviously were not around the forum when the two primary "importers" made their debut. The lies told. The paid respondents. The failed machines. The deleted negative posts. The list goes on and on. Basically it was the perfect "Case Study" of how NOT TO DO BUSINESS. They've cleaned up their act a bit, but the players are the same.I've got a 30 yr old Dialarc in my shop, that I can still get serviced (seldom needed) and Miller still supports it with parts.The "importers" change the models (and production facilities) so fast that they can't support a machine built 3 yrs ago. Replacement parts are not available, so they offer a "credit" on a new machine.Understand one thing. Neither of the "importers" manufacture a damn thing. They don't design a damn thing. Their quality control is primative at best. What they do is go to China and find a manufacturer who will produce a machine with the most "bells and whistles" for the lowest price and then buy them in bulk so that they can be sold cheaply to the newbies who don't know better.Where are their welding engineers, their electrical engineers, their QC experts, etc, etc?I'm tired of arguing with idiots who wouldn't know a quality welder if it fell in their laps.
Reply:Originally Posted by claymans13hey man just giving you a hard time. I'm not against import welders, they have their place. Their not all bad, but when it comes to my personal equipment, its yellow, red or blue because i want companies that aren't going anywhere.
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9For my own sanity, I need tools that I have confidence in and that work the first time.
Reply:I would quit welding in a NY minute and take up tool repair/restoration.
Reply:More often than not the problems with the old stuff not working ends up being fixed after the person starts a thread here. Old transformer stuff is much easier to fix than inverter machines regardless of brand. Also the quality brands are just as guilty of cost cutting in the name of profit. The reason inverters are the in thing now is because they are cheaper to make than old transformer stuff just due to the cost of raw materials to build them. Copper and aluminum.. price out a fcew hunderd lbs of copper to make a 330abp for example... sure inverters have lots of benefits but transformer stuff still has its place and a following by many experiencedwelders.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Inverters weigh less and save millions of dollars in shipping and production costs for sure. Once design and tooling are paid for, PC boards are cheap. There isn't much in terms of components in modern welding machines, and DO note the prices on replacement boards are obviously targeted to render machines beyond economical repair. That's why welding repair outfits collect organ donors. MANY organ donors.If I want a modern inverter I'll write the check and sell something else if need be to pay for it, but dirt cheap acquisition cost along with rocklike reliability argue for used commercial transformer gear. For commercial "big" jobs, equipment is "consumable" and everything is a throwaway. That math is different.(If stories from folks who worked projects where mass quantities of excess good equipment and new steel were buried onsite are accurate, and my experienced sources had no reason to lie, that takes "disposability" to a whole new level. They didn't offer up details of the sites and I didn't ask since I don't want to know. Something about cost-plus contracts was mentioned...)
Reply:Farmall, that's how I fixed my current Powcon, a donor board from another one. the total I paid for both machines was less than the cost of a new board from Arc-Products...Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawMore often than not the problems with the old stuff not working ends up being fixed after the person starts a thread here. Old transformer stuff is much easier to fix than inverter machines regardless of brand. Also the quality brands are just as guilty of cost cutting in the name of profit. The reason inverters are the in thing now is because they are cheaper to make than old transformer stuff just due to the cost of raw materials to build them. Copper and aluminum.. price out a fcew hunderd lbs of copper to make a 330abp for example... sure inverters have lots of benefits but transformer stuff still has its place and a following by many experiencedwelders.
Reply:Originally Posted by tnc110So why is Miller so damn expensive!!! I was pretty proud to have a stable of all blue (mig , tig and plasma) I understand they have to pay for research and testing for their products, but come on! $10k for a dynasty 350 rigged!!! Exactly my point. bigger profit margin for them cuz it probably cost less than it would to make a transformer machine nowdaysI'll be honest this decision sucks. I can sell the Dialarc and Spectrum and have enough money for a new everlast. But its not BLUE!!! I Fired up the ole Dialarc tonight and ran some aluminum...It has never welded better! But I really want more plasma ability and the extra tig features.
Reply:Originally Posted by tnc110I'll be honest this decision sucks. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:20:28