mixing oxygen and oil

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I ran across this on the web and thought it may be helpful for some one to be aware of, I cant speak for its authenticity but here ya go: Attached ImagesDON'T MIX OXYGEN AND OIL-1.pdf (94.2 KB, 2020 views)Last edited by dumb as a stump; 12-23-2011 at 06:47 AM.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:I can't speak for the injury shown (since I wasn't there, but I have no reason to believe it's not authentic), but the rest is good information. When I was working on aircraft, you always had to completely degrease your tools before working on or disassembling any parts of the on board oxygen system to avoid this exact issue. You don't ever want to loosen an oxygen fitting with a greasy wrench, that's not likely to end well.Be safe!KevinHobart Handler 210Tweco Fabricator 181iLincoln Squarewave Tig 175
Reply:Without an ignition source? This is hard for me to believe, I would think there would be many many more cases of this if it were true.
Reply:The big worry about oxy and oil is where the oil can get inside fittings where it would be exposed to high pressure oxygen or maybe even low pressure. It's something you don't want to roll the dice on!!                                                MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTWithout an ignition source? This is hard for me to believe, I would think there would be many many more cases of this if it were true.
Reply:Tagged (for future download)"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Pure oxygen and especially compressed pure oxygen can make "oxidation' occur rapidly.Rapid oxidation of a fuel source is also called "burning".Even without an external ignition source (spark/flame etc), pure oxygen can increase the naturally occurring oxidation rate of substances such that they ignite.  Or such a tiny 'spark' (static electricity perhaps) is all it takes to Light-em-Up.Some (a LOT ) of the stuff we use and do is dangerous if you are not careful.So,  Be Careful!!!!  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:I was on a job site a few years back an this mobile mechanic was working on  the drive engine of the crusher I was welding on and his comp craped on him so he rigged  up his oxy tank to his air line needless to say but I herd the explosion when his impact gun took half his hand off over the noise of the welders not good  NOTE to all oil Presureized oxy 🔥👎Another day in paradise You only have to be smarter than the metal".   WeldiniMaking an honest living is nothing more than stealing from someone who can afford it and everyone feels good when it's over .      Weldini
Reply:Just for your info:Chemistry demoLiquid Oxygen dropped from an eye dropper from a height  onto a black top surface is equal to an m80 to m100 sound when they come in contact with each otherBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Crazy!!! People, you NEED to know oil and oxy = KABOOM, no ignition source needed... Take heed, please!!!
Reply:Oh i've known that for many years and i just assumed that all welders knew thatThe problem when you assume is that it makes an a  s  s of u and meI maybe crazy but stupid i am not...well most of the time anywayBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:A couple years ago, I was preheating a trim die in a stamping press. What I didn't know was the o.a. had a pinhole leak in the O2 hose right @ the torch. As soon as it hit some oil on the press bed, it flashed & blew up in my hand.Took @ least 6 weeks 4 a full recovery(didn't miss any work tho!). If I find the pic of my hand,I'll post it.
Reply:i had that picture  laminated and i am putting it on my O/A cart on the oxygen tank.....so the boys are reminded everytime we go near itbobs77vet/37ford4drEastwood digital TIG200HH190Lincoln Invertec 155sLincoln weldpak 100sears/craftsman (lincoln) 50a 240v buzz boxO/A rig Harris gaugesnexion cut 50 dxchicago electric (HF) 240v spot welder
Reply:37ford4dr, I followed your lead and gave everyone a copy. That would be a serious injury, enough to ruin my day.20yrs Welding ExperienceArc, Tig, Mig, Brazing, and sometimes I just beat metal together the old fashion way.www.steelworks-online.com
Reply:Might have been some oil inside the reg as well.   I work for an industrial gas company, and based on what I have seen with fires inside pipes, I would not be suprised at all if the pic was real.
Reply:There are plenty of stories around about mixing grease/oil and pure oxygen, and there are some very bad endings.Take care guys.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:I work on 100% oxygen lines on occasion, our policy is to use ultrasonicly cleaned brass tools that are packaged in a sealed bag until the time of use. Then when breaking loose in service flanges, we clean the flange and bolts with alcohol and lint free wipes with brand new nitrile gloves that we also clean with alcohol. And of course zero never seize on the studs....
Reply:Thanks for posting this, I saw the poster's of it a few years ago on some jobs I was on.It should be a sticky.
Reply:When I was at A ESAB welder repair class a few years ago. The instructor had a video that was filmed at the ESAB factory blast room in the regulator assembly area.It shows a Q-tip placing a very small spot of oil in the regulator gas input. Turned on the O2 and the regulator blew up. They use it as a sales demonstration for their presto-lite explosion resistant regulator. Be careful with O2
Reply:The damage to the regulator seems to indicate that the source of ignition was inside the regulator itself. Flame doesn't travel where there is no fuel.Here's something I noticed. I'm not familiar with the rules in other countries, but O2 cylinders here in the USA have male connectors on the tank valve which makes the regulator fitting female. The damaged part looks an awful lot like an acetylene regulator, not oxygen.Did any of you other guys notice that?  Also there are lots of soot deposits on the reg. which is typical of an acetylene-rich flame.Most of you should know that acetylene is kind of unstable and doesn't appreciate being overheated/overpressurized.There's a welding supply company in my area that has an exploded acetylene tank they use as a trash bin.Last edited by Joshfromsaltlake; 12-24-2011 at 04:38 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joshfromsaltlake I'm not familiar with the rules in other countries
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTWithout an ignition source? This is hard for me to believe, I would think there would be many many more cases of this if it were true.
Reply:Originally Posted by JoshfromsaltlakeThe damage to the regulator seems to indicate that the source of ignition was inside the regulator itself. Flame doesn't travel where there is no fuel.Did any of you other guys notice that?  Also there are lots of soot deposits on the reg. which is typical of an acetylene-rich flame..
Reply:That's about the best advertisement for plasma cutting that I've seen.LibertarianLincoln AC/DC 225Everlast PowerPlasma 70 Hobart IronmanEverlast PowerTig 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by rancher76I explain it to people by pointing to my diesel truck. No spark, just some oil squirted in to the cylinder, put under an a**load of pressure, then BOOM! I would believe if the leak was coming off the high pressure side of the regulator. Good link, I will print off a copy and put by the OA at work!!I would guess for there to be a problem the oil/grease that would cause an explosion would have to have a low flash point.
Reply:Blast shields, gloves and fire clothing? We have been running O2 on our trucks for 45 years to supply O2 to the fish and bait. We have the tanks on our trucks, boats, shops, you name it. We use them daily as well as just about every other wholesale dealer out there. I doubt anyone is gonna dress up in a fire suit to turn their tanks on.Good to know about the oil and grease deal though. Never heard or thought about it but at the same time hauling live fish we don't take kindly to putting any kind of oils or grease in or around anything that comes into contact with the water.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallDon't "guess", this has been studied for many, many, many years. Oxygen at high pressure can ignite METAL.The rules we are used to at low pressures don't apply. Google "Particle Impact Ignition" for some examples. By the way, that's a reason you open oxygen regulators SLOWLY, and crack oxygen cylinders facing away from you before connecting them so as to blow out any particles, and visually inspect your cylinder and regulator before connection.Everything to do with OA systems has been studied literally for more than ONE HUNDRED years. The info is out there.MOVING components in a high-pressure oxygen atmosphere are dangerous, as shown by the destroyed booster in the pictures. Anyone working with such should fab a thick steel blast shield anchored so blast goes away from them, and wear fire-protective clothing and gloves while actuating valves etc.
Reply:In the diesel engine example given previously, the compressed atmosphere contains roughly 21% oxygen, and 78% inert nitrogen, and that ignites and burns an oil mist oil very well indeed.As soon as you start increasing the oxygen and decreasing the nitrogen content, burning becomes much faster and much more fierce. Pure oxygen is pretty dangerous stuff around anything that can possibly burn.Even NASA that should have known much better screwed up with the design of Apollo 1, and the very high oxygen content in the Command Module fried three astronauts in a sudden flash fire.When you pull the trigger on an oxy cutting torch, you do exactly that, and the steel itself becomes the fuel and burns, once there has been sufficient preheat to start the process.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:As an update i will post the site that I found this posted on. It came up on a google search of "oil and oxygen" and the site it came from was:  http://www.mmma.org.za/SafetyFlash/2...0AND%20OIL.pdfI didn't post this because it didn't bring up the pdf and I had to upload it instead. But since there was a note about the reg it may be relevant that this is an African site and perhaps different.Last edited by dumb as a stump; 12-24-2011 at 06:54 PM.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Blast shields, gloves and fire clothing?
Reply:What metals are bad to have in a compressed O2 system? Like I said we have had O2 systems for years on our equipment for the fish and have used all kinds of fittings and valves and whatnot for plumbing. Everything from brass, copper, aluminum, rubber, galvanized pipe, stainless, and steel. These are all on the lower pressure side keep in mind, never see more than 20psi. We never install anything between the regulator and tank.
Reply:Everything I have used is Brass.
Reply:all the commercial oxygen fittings seem to be made of brass, only other thing would be "O" rings and hoses.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:On the low pressure side, brass and stainless are very common. I'd stay away from alum, rubber and plastics. Carbon steel  and galvi would be iffy. Personally I wouldn't use them. On the HP side, most stuff is brass, some stainless and in a few rare cases I've seen monel used. You defiantly don't want to use carbon steel, or aluminum on the high pressure side..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:CGA G4.1 and G4.4 are good resources, see also NFPA 51.OSHA has a some guidance as well, as copied belowThere are tons of others, EIGA/AIGA, ASTM G63 and 68, NFPA 53, and the list goes on and on, and this is before the construction code of 31.3, etc.  Long story short, make sure you know what you are doing with oxygen piping systems1910.253(d)(1)(i)(A)Piping and fittings shall comply with section 2, Industrial Gas and Air Piping Systems, of the American National Standard Code for Pressure Piping ANSI B31.1-1967, which is incorporated by reference as specified in Sec. 1910.6, insofar as it does not conflict with paragraph (d)(1)(i)(A)(1) and (d)(1)(i)(A)(2) of this section:1910.253(d)(1)(i)(A)(1)Pipe shall be at least Schedule 40 and fittings shall be at least standard weight in sizes up to and including 6-inch nominal.1910.253(d)(1)(i)(A)(2)Copper tubing shall be Types K or L in accordance with the Standard Specification for Seamless Copper Water Tube, ASTM B88-66a, which is incorporated by reference as specified in Sec. 1910.6.1910.253(d)(1)(i)(B)Piping shall be steel, wrought iron, brass or copper pipe, or seamless copper, brass or stainless steel tubing, except as provided in paragraph (d)(1)(ii) and (d)(1)(iii) of this section.1910.253(d)(1)(ii)1910.253(d)(1)(ii)(A)Oxygen piping and fittings at pressures in excess of 700 psi (4.8 MPa), shall be stainless steel or copper alloys.1910.253(d)(1)(ii)(B)Hose connections and hose complying with paragraph (e)(5) of this section may be used to connect the outlet of a manifold pressure regulator to piping providing the working pressure of the piping is 250 psi (1.7 MPa) or less and the length of the hose does not exceed 5 feet (1.5 m). Hose shall have a minimum bursting pressure of 1,000 psig (6.8 MPa).1910.253(d)(1)(ii)(C)When oxygen is supplied to a service piping system from a low-pressure oxygen manifold without an intervening pressure regulating device, the piping system shall have a minimum design pressure of 250 psig (1.7 MPa). A pressure regulating device shall be used at each station outlet when the connected equipment is for use at pressures less than 250 psig (1.7 MPa).1910.253(d)(1)(iii)1910.253(d)(1)(iii)(A)Piping for acetylene or acetylenic compounds shall be steel or wrought iron.1910.253(d)(1)(iii)(B)Unalloyed copper shall not be used for acetylene or acetylenic compounds except in listed equipment.