Help me decide between a diversion 180 and dynasty 200DX

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Hello folks! As a vintage motorcycle restoration hobbyist I have decided to add a TIG welder to my home shop. I have a little SP135t mig welder that has been a great asset but considering the materials I'm working on in my restorations I'm thinking an AC/DC tig machine would be better suited. I originally was looking at an Eastwood 200 but was put off by reviews and want a welder I can count on with good lifespan and serviceability. Now my new dilemma is deciding if the 180 will work or if I should just bite the bullet and spring $3200+ for the 200DX. Money is a concern but considering I only want to buy a TIG welder once I can justify the purchase it the upgrade is worth it. As far as use, I'm not production welder, I doubt I'll use the welder more than a few times per month but I do want instant access thus, hiring a welder and hauling restoration projects back and forth between my shop and a welder's shop won't cut it. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm not interested in a Syncrowave, I need small and light so I can move it around. I guess my biggest question is, do I need the control of the 200DX or will the 180's simpler controls suffice? Most likely uses will be repairing older parts, chrome moly, mild steel and aluminum. I may also dabble in the fabrication of replace parts nothing thick, I'm guessing 1/8" at the very most and most likely 3/16" or less. Are the control benefits of the DX going to help or hinder me being a relatively inexperienced hobbyist TIG welder? I guess an analogy i am thinking of is point and shoot camera vs. monster digital SLR with full control. It's nice to have full control but will I get caught up screwing with settings and miss the shot, or will they really help me take better photos (welds in the case of these two machines)?Thanks in advance for your input.KTMrider Attached Images
Reply:I have a Diversion but am planning to get a foot control for it.  If you are intending to repair aluminum castings such as gear boxes the Diversion does not have a very high duty cycle.  The benefits of the Dynasty are a big plus and if the settings confuse you at the start you can use it on conventional settings without the pulse etc.  If I had the bucks I would have gone to something like the Dynasty.   If you are doing a lot of repairs consider it a good investment.  If you buy the Diversion I am sure eventually you will want to upgrade.
Reply:I have the Dyn DX200 and also do custom cycle stuff. Have not ran the Diversion so can't comment on it. I bought the Dyn to replace a 250 synchrowave that took a dump, and I'm pleased with the unit. You'll get use to all the bells and whistles, they're there if you need them. If you think you'll be doing much alum I would prefer the Dynasty.Custom 3/16" alum seat pan with bronze shakles'71 Ironhead XLCHLast edited by J-W; 04-23-2012 at 01:30 PM.
Reply:More like $3,767.00 for a 200dx ready to weld http://store.cyberweld.com/dy200dxaipaf.htmlThe machine only is $3,098.00You could probably purchase the reg, Torch, foot pedal separately for cheaper but just wanted to give you a heads up if yer looking at websites for the 200dxEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:The Diversion180 is stupid easy, but has it's limitations on power and duty cycle. The Dynasty200 however has magical properties to it. I have used both, and recommend that beginners start with the Diversion, and move up later to the Dynasty.But in 2 to 3 months Miller has promised to debut the Dynasty 280. The basic version will have the preset parameter like the Diversion. When requiered additional parameters can be downloaded from the internet via Miller's Owners site when you get really good. The DX will have all the advanced functions of the 200, 350, and the 700. Both of them weld like a beast, because I have demoed the beta models. Only downside is the inability to use 115volts.You could wait a bit and see the reviews of the 280 to make a decision. There should be plenty of Diversion and Dynasty200 folks selling and upgrading to this, so there should be plenty of good used ones available too.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thanks for the great input folks! Super nice job on the seat bases!
Reply:I have the Diversion 180. I like it allot but can see that I will upgrade to Dynasty at some point.I kind of kick myself that I did not spend the extra money on a Syncrowave or Precision Tig when I bought the 180. The Dynasty was more than I wanted to spend on something I was unsure about, but the other two would of been in the ball park as far as cost.I am a hobby welder and it seems that the extra control would be nice when doing aluminum.Miller Diversion 180Lincoln Mig Pak 5000 HDHypertherm 45Uni-Spotter Stud WelderOxy Set-up with Harris TorchMiller 30FX Arc StationMiller Elite - Hockey Canada Helmet
Reply:very rarely will someone ever regret they spent too much for more machine than they need. I mean you feel the hurt $$ intially but then it goes away and you will never go back to regretting it... on the other hand, many have regretted NOT spending more and getting the better, more capable machine, and this regret can last the whole time you own the lesser welder, so... to avoid regrets get what it is that you know you really want...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:I'm feeling the same way. I'll probably buy a base 200dx and add accessories as I go along. Where should I buy online and what base package should I be looking at to get started?
Reply:Originally Posted by KTMriderI'm feeling the same way. I'll probably buy a base 200dx and add accessories as I go along. Where should I buy online and what base package should I be looking at to get started?
Reply:I know that this is not specific to your question, but you may want to consider a used TA 185 Arcmaster.   I had the 185 TSW version which is basically the same without a program saving feature.  It lacks very little compared to the dynasty.   AC frequency only goes to 150hz, no adjustable wave form, and the starts aren't quite as good.   No 110 volt input either.  You could get a used one for the price of a new Diversion 180.  I've had both machines and as a non pro, I can't see myself ever getting to a level where the Dynasty would make a difference.  Big difference from the Diversion though.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:If you ever need to stick weld (SMAW), get the Dynasty. I had a Dynasty 200DX for six years. I used that little beast on all kinds of stuff plugged into anything from 110-460 volts, single or three phase.Sold it after six years for $2300.00 (it was like renting it for ten bucks a month!) , only because I needed more amperage. -IanMiller Dynasty 350Miller XMT 304
Reply:Ok, I'm set on buying the 200DX next question, does it make more since to just purchase the base machine and add my own choice of foot control, torch, and accessories, or just but the foot control pkg from cyber weld?? Any thoughts??
Reply:KMT,Think you're making the right decision regarding the 200DX.However, I'd also like to mention that using a tig (any tig) only a "couple times a month" will seriously limit what you're capable of producing.  Tig welding is a "very versatile" welding process, but it's also known as the most difficult to master and maintain.Tig welding not only requires an understanding of the process, but also the development of motor skills to do it well.I would seriously recommend that you look into taking a tig prep course at your local CC or tech center.  Tig welding can be "learned on your own", but a course will get you started in the right direction.  Defiinitely a "building block process".  If you try to skip steps in the basics, it WILL come back to bite you in the butt down the road.You don't show a location, but there are other internet/mail order retailers besides Cyberweld.  I personally have had excellent results with BR Welding in White Plains, MD.  They advertise on e-bay, but calling them direct may be a little cheaper than the e-bay prices.You can save a little money by "putting your own system together", but for a new guy, that may take a little study/research regarding what you need.Whichever way you go, I would highly recommend going to millerwelds.com and check out their "resources tab".  There you will find an offer for their "Tig Handbook".  It is one of the best tig guides available.  Whatever they're charging for it now (prices just went up), it's still a bargain.  Best money you'll ever spend on tig welding.Good luck.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIKMT,Think you're making the right decision regarding the 200DX.However, I'd also like to mention that using a tig (any tig) only a "couple times a month" will seriously limit what you're capable of producing.  Tig welding is a "very versatile" welding process, but it's also known as the most difficult to master and maintain.Tig welding not only requires an understanding of the process, but also the development of motor skills to do it well.I would seriously recommend that you look into taking a tig prep course at your local CC or tech center.  Tig welding can be "learned on your own", but a course will get you started in the right direction.  Defiinitely a "building block process".  If you try to skip steps in the basics, it WILL come back to bite you in the butt down the road.You don't show a location, but there are other internet/mail order retailers besides Cyberweld.  I personally have had excellent results with BR Welding in White Plains, MD.  They advertise on e-bay, but calling them direct may be a little cheaper than the e-bay prices.You can save a little money by "putting your own system together", but for a new guy, that may take a little study/research regarding what you need.Whichever way you go, I would highly recommend going to millerwelds.com and check out their "resources tab".  There you will find an offer for their "Tig Handbook".  It is one of the best tig guides available.  Whatever they're charging for it now (prices just went up), it's still a bargain.  Best money you'll ever spend on tig welding.Good luck.
Reply:Expanding on Sunnys comments:I started tig welding in the mid 1980's and stayed with it (paid) for 20 years. I don't weld daily any more and I can tell my skills are slipping. On the projects of late where I get to weld aluminum it can take an hour or more just to get the feel back. It can take several years to experience enough difficulties and to make enough errors to become proficient at tig. Remember we learn nothing from success. It is the failures that teach us how to succeed.
Reply:Another machine to consider: http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetail...ode=70221-12.5
Reply:Looks nice but I think I'm set on dynasty 200DX....
Reply:BTW I downloaded Miller's PDF Tig handbook, very nice! Thanks for the tip!
Reply:Originally Posted by KTMriderBTW I downloaded Miller's PDF Tig handbook, very nice! Thanks for the tip!
Reply:Thanks much everyone! Shopping as I write this post! When I get the little beast in my hands I'll post some feeble crappy first welds for everyone to pick apart! I've been collecting misc scap cast/Al/SS/ material to practice on.
Reply:Hey who here is using an HTP Invertig 221? I just found out about this machine it look darn nice! I may rethink the 200dx.... Any thoughts?
Reply:Thought you were set on the Dynasty ?  I just sold my Sync 250 to try the HTP out.  Should be able to order in the next month or two.  I would love a Dynasty, but the HTP fully loaded with a cooler is still less than the Dynasty.  The Sync was more machine was more than I would ever need, but space and power considerations were a big factor for me.  I have a small two car garage I try to make the most of....
Reply:Kaz,My feelings exactly! I've been watching videos and reading reviews on the 221 all day, the fully loaded price is pretty good. I have yet to read anything bad about the 221 or it's customer service. I called USA weld today, nice folks, I was impressed.
Reply:I actually called today as well to see if there is any difference in price between buying the the water cooled setup with the machine now or by itself later.  No price break...so I haven't decided if I want to start with the air cooled setup or just get it fully loaded right off the bat...Ha, I had the same thought. Actually, buying separately may be a better deal. If we buy air cooled we get an air cool torch with the kit. Then if you buy the cooler at a later date, it comes with a water-cooled torch giving you two torches instead of one correct? I'm assuming if we order the cooler with the unit they swap the air cooled torch for water-cooled and you only get one torch? $165 for the second torch if you buy it outright....
Reply:I don't know where you are located but here is my local suppliers website. They have the total package for  $4595.00.http://www.weldersupply.com/productd...&ID=42&pID=375
Reply:Thanks for sharing BD1. Still a grand more than the HTP setup but a good deal.
Reply:I was just reading this thread and came across the HTP Invertig 221.It seems to be comparable to a Miller Dynasty 200 as far as their published capabilities go.What do the pro's here at WeldingWeb think of the HTP 221? Is it a good machine? Has anyone ever used one? Would the water-cooled HTP221 be a better option than a water-cooled Everlast 250EX for the home/hobby user that might be doing odd jobs on the side with it? I would love a Dynasty 200 Complete water-cooled package but it is just way out of my price range for what I want to do with it. Sorry if I hi-jacked your thread...Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:I've never heard anything bad about the HTP machines..Thermal Arc is another brand you guys might consider..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:I did all the same research last year prior to my purchase of the HTP 201. Couldn't find any negative comments, either posted, or in  phone, or internet conversations. The people at HTP are great to deal with, too. I'm thinking of selling my 201 to upgrade to the 221 to get the benefits of dual voltage. In my opinion, you won't regret dealing with HTP!  If you'd like to discuss further, PM me your number, and I'll give you a call.Last edited by wkdivr; 05-03-2012 at 06:13 AM.
Reply:I think some of us posting in this thread are in the same boat. I first looked hard at Chinese machines because of price but was scared away by bad reviews and poor workmanship. I'm a welder wannabe, I'll never use my machine to make a living per say but a want a full featured machine that will run beads when I turn it on and want to play or fix something. I also want a machine I can grow onto with few limitations even though I may not be anywhere near competent with my tig skills. Can I spend $4500 on a Miller, sure. Do I want to? No not considering it will never pay for itself. The HTP appears to have all that we need for a grand less. That $1000 saved would most likely buy enough consumables to get me through lots of play and home projects. Again, I want something that has it all and is reliable enough to weld when I need it to. If I was a pro welder and needed to feed my kids by welding, I'd buy blue or big red. It's funny, I base my price recovery on welding gear by dividing machine cost by inches of bead run, my little SP135t has welded a total of maybe 36 inches of bead since I've owned it. I bought the unit new for $429 four years ago. Not counting consumables that means its roughly costing me $12 an inch to weld with thus far. Tig, with an HTP water-cooled kit with all the bells and whistles at $3600 will take a long time to get to the $11 an inch mark. At 899.00 for an Everlast/Eastwood recovery is quicker but only if it holds up.
Reply:The HTP with the water cooled kit is only ~$3000....Edit: Unless you are planning on getting the dual voltage kit.  I plan on just buying the 220V since I have that in my garage and if I do need to take it anywhere I have a long extension cord I can run off of a dryer outlet.Like you said, for a lot of people, it's a hobby.  I would like to be able to make more money at it, but right now it's not the case.  I would also love to just drop the coin for the Miller, but agree it's hard to justify an extra $1k+.  I can't justify, however, buying a cheap machine.  There's another thread just recently about how after his 7th machine, it seems to work.  That headache isn't worth the savings to me.  The things that sway me to the HTP is that I seriously haven't read one negative review about them and people that own them seem to rave about the customer service.Last edited by kazlx; 05-03-2012 at 11:54 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by wkdivrI did all the same research last year prior to my purchase of the HTP 201. Couldn't find any negative comments, either posted, or in  phone, or internet conversations. The people at HTP are great to deal with, too. I'm thinking of selling my 201 to upgrade to the 221 to get the benefits of dual voltage. In my opinion, you won't regret dealing with HTP!  If you'd like to discuss further, PM me your number, and I'll give you a call.
Reply:KTMrider,Sounds like you're putting a lot of good thought into your decision.Only thing I'd add is not to be too "put off" with a package deal.  You'll find that once you own a tig welder, you "just have to have" more bells and whistles.  Although, I use a water cooled torch on my Dynasty 90% of the time, I also have an air cooled (WP 9) that I use for portable work.  Nice to grab the machine, a small bottle of argon, an extension cord, and head out to do a quick repair.  I've found (over a long time I may add) that buying quality tools only hurts once.  That soon passes and the satisfaction remains.  When you buy quality, you have some assurance that the quality of your work is limited only by your capability, not by the capability of the machine.I know it's hard for a new guy to grasp, but there's a reason why everyone who builds a "full featured, mid amp range" tig compares their product to a Dynasty 200.When all is said and done, it's your money and you've got to be comfortable with your decision.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Sundown,Thanks for the input. I've been drooling over the 200DX for quite some time but I'm coming to the realization that at a grand less and at my skill level. The HTP 221 will fit the bill and ease the ***-whipping my wife will give me when the boxes arrive at the doorstep.  A lot of folks here have the 200DX and I respect their honest input. I'm sure you folks that are professional welders must get very tired of hearing the repeated questions about choices for greenhorns like myself. I enjoy reading the Professionals input and hope to learn a bit from you folks that help us out by sharing your talents/tips/tricks with us. In all honestty, most of us would love to have a shop full of the very best welders offered but many of the folks here, myself included never will. Instead, at least in my case I do enjoy drooling over nice equipment and talent that I will probably never possess.
Reply:KTMrider,Do yourself a huge favor and print out the Cyberweld Dynasty200 price listing. And print out the HTP 221 listing, and take them to your LWS to quote you. Most times they match. At the same time you will get a feel for what it is like for us to visit our suppliers of hard core welding supplies.Your LWS will stand behind your purchase, at no cost shipping for pickup, or even repair if needed. They will also help with setup and recommend people in your area that might be able to help you.Please don't discount the brick and mortar weld suppliers.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I bought the dyn200dx with water cooled package.  I'm not sure I'd do it again for two reasons.The cart is sort of flimsy, and I end up never moving it.  I could have just set the machine on the shelf and it would be exactly the same.The coolmate 1 is noisy.  It does what it's supposed to and I haven't had a bit of trouble from it.  The coolmate3 is $150 more.  I haven't used one, but I haven't heard many people complaining about the noise like the coolmate1.  Or you could save $520 not buying the coolmate1, spend $30 in fittings and run water from the tap.  Not ideal for an 8 hour shift, but probably fine for hobby use.I would, however, buy the dyn200 again.  The only reason I wouldn't buy the dyn200 is if I could cough up the money for a dyn350 (or dyn280 if they ever become available).Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:I like buying from the LWS when I can, but the tax on LWS purchases versus no tax on out of state internet purchases is a deciding factor.  Most of the internet places are trimming the prices very close.  The LWS can do the same because some profit is better than no profit at all, but they can't trim the price that close AND eat another 8.25% (my location) in taxes to match the internet price.  Couple that with the fact that most internet places don't add shipping costs on new machines (drop ship from manufacturer).  It's a very hard deal for the LWS to match.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Originally Posted by AndyAI like buying from the LWS when I can, but the tax on LWS purchases versus no tax on out of state internet purchases is a deciding factor.  Most of the internet places are trimming the prices very close.  The LWS can do the same because some profit is better than no profit at all, but they can't trim the price that close AND eat another 8.25% (my location) in taxes to match the internet price.  Couple that with the fact that most internet places don't add shipping costs on new machines (drop ship from manufacturer).  It's a very hard deal for the LWS to match.
Reply:My LWS has to "special order" a 50 lbs can of 7018.  Gas is about the only thing they're good at.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Our LWS is a GTS-Weld franchise. I bought my tanks from them but their salespeople are not very attentive nor do they want to match or come close to Internet pricing.I stopped in last week and asked about pricing on the 200DX and questioned him about the new 280, the LWS expert didn't even know what the 280 was! I showed him his own 2012 Miller flyer and he just looked at it and said, "huh, that's a new one on me"??  I try to support them when I need something but honestly they don't stock anything and it take 2-4 days for them to get supplies in when I do order from them. No service either, they send everything out. Not to mention it take 5 minutes for the one man show to come in from smoking and wait on customers. As much as I hate to say it, I think I get better service ordering on line. 8.5% sales is a big hit for me too. If I had a better experience at the local Shop I would be much more inclined to spend $$ there.
Reply:Originally Posted by KTMriderOur LWS is a GTS-Weld franchise. I bought my tanks from them but their salespeople are not very attentive nor do they want to match or come close to Internet pricing.I stopped in last week and asked about pricing on the 200DX and questioned him about the new 280, the LWS expert didn't even know what the 280 was! I showed him his own 2012 Miller flyer and he just looked at it and said, "huh, that's a new one on me"??  I try to support them when I need something but honestly they don't stock anything and it take 2-4 days for them to get supplies in when I do order from them. No service either, they send everything out. Not to mention it take 5 minutes for the one man show to come in from smoking and wait on customers. As much as I hate to say it, I think I get better service ordering on line. 8.5% sales is a big hit for me too. If I had a better experience at the local Shop I would be much more inclined to spend $$ there.
Reply:We used to have an incredible "Mom and Pop" shop but the owners retired and sold the business to a young guy who got money hungry and ran it into the ground. Within a couple of years he closed up and moved away. I took a course with the original owner, he was a very nice guy that would bend over backwards for you. this was way before Al Gore's (yeah right..) Internet existed. I really enjoyed that shop. I would have happily spent at retail with him, but he always knocked at least 10% off everything. Sure do miss the old days....
Reply:Originally Posted by AndyAMy LWS has to "special order" a 50 lbs can of 7018.  Gas is about the only thing they're good at.
Reply:They don't have 7018 in 10lbs either, but they did have 10lbs of hardfacing rod .  The guy that used to run it died, and I think the people running it now have never welded and don't have a clue.  I think they have some good old stock, but anything common is already bought and they don't reorder.  Even someone who does know anything about welding should recognize "We've had three people ask for item X, maybe we should order some item X to keep in stock".  It could also be they are tight on money and don't want to order anything until they're sure they can sell it quickly.I was going to buy some O/A quick disconnects from them the other day.  They wanted $65 when I could buy them on the internet for $42.  I'd like to support the local store, but I can't bleed money every time I do it.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:I'd rather have 1 machine that can do what I need it to, All of what I need it to, than have 3 machines that limit me. I'll save for the stick/tig setup later. In the meantime, I will work on getting extremely proficient at mig/flux/dual shield.I HATE dealing with limitations on what I can do.