Broken Allen Bit in Buckmark Barrel Screw

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So I just got a brand new Browning Buckmark pistol last week, and I was going to put on a tactical solutions barrel on it before I shot it for the first time.  I went to remove the barrel screw and it didn't want to budge (why does browning put these on so crazy tight?).  I finally thought that I got it, but the wrench started turning in the hole (I think the set screw might have cracked at this point).  So next I found next size bigger allan (3mm) and lightly tapped it in with a hammer.... the allen bit broke off in the screw when we put pressure on it to remove it.  After looking closer at it, I can see that the set screw is cracked in 3 places.  But I can't get the bit or screw out.  You can't drill it because the barrel is too close.  I have a TIG welder & a MIG welder and I thought about trying to weld a small nut onto it, but I don't want to risk damaging the gun and the area is so small, I don't know if it would work.   The bit is only sticking up maybe 1/16" of an inch, so there isn't much to grab onto.  Any ideas?Miller Dynasty 200DX Tig Welder
Reply:Mr3man  -  EDM, Electro Discharge Machining  -    Opus
Reply:Opus has a very good suggestion, yet finding a machine shop that is equipped with that particular machine might be a challenge. If you feel pretty comfortable with your tig machine I would suggest first very carefully using some SS filler to build up the end of the broken Allen wrench so that you can remove it prior to attempting to address the allen screw. Once you have removed the broken wrench tip you can "carefully" build up the end of the screw so that you are able to grip it with a visegrip and turn it out or you can weld a nut onto it and use a wrench. By welding onto the end of the fractured Allen screw you will likely "shrink" the fractured part and also break it loose. I have included a couple of pictures of addressing removal of a broken tap, somewhat different, but also something of the same nature. As to welding on a firearm; be sure to have a good ground connection to prevent arc strikes and arcing, weld in short amounts of time to prevent any heating issues. If you use a bit of common sense and don't allow the area to get too hot(should be able to hang onto it with your bare hands and not proceed further until you can) you will not risk any damage to it from the work that you do to it. Good luck and best regards, Allan Attached Imagesaevald
Reply:Looks like its in a bind inside the screw head. You could take a center punch and use it on one corner of the broken peice tapping it back the opposite direction the you were turning it when it broke. In one of the pics it looks like there is enough of the edge sticking up to grab it with a small pair of needle nose pliers or possibly even some tweezers. I have broke several like that and once they are gitten out of a bind the peice of the allen wrench will almost fall out.Making as much progress as a one legged duck in the middle of a pond, just going in circles.
Reply:I have read about EDM on some other forums, but I am not sure how to go about finding a place that has one of those machines?Do you think it is do-able to build up the broken allen piece with filler when the allen is only 3mm across?Miller Dynasty 200DX Tig Welder
Reply:I have broken two tips off of small needle nose pliers trying to grab the top of the allen with no luck.  It is too small of an area to get a punch in there without damaging the surrounding area.Miller Dynasty 200DX Tig Welder
Reply:FIrst off - screw is probably loctited, put some heat on it and see what boils out.  I use a little pencil type soldering iron.you could weld a nut/cone to it and acomplis the same thing - I have gotten lucky on little stuff with that a few times but it is far from ideal.If you do have a little of it sticking up you might try a thin wall 3mm socket - tap it onto it, then reach through the middle of the socket with a stick welder - there are a few 1/16th rods out there and most any of them would work .Soaking overnight in Kroil could also helpWhen any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:Brand new pistol? I would send it back to the manufacturer to fix. If they screw it up you will get a new pistol. If anybody else screws it up you are out of luck.CharleyMiller MM252Miller Bobcat 225NTMiller DialArc HF / DIY Cooler2 Victor O/A TorchsetsMilwaukee 8" Metal SawMilwaukee Dry Cut "Chop" Saw 5 Ton Wallace Gantry Various Grinders, Benders, etc.
Reply:i'd try a small punch and hammer or a automatic center punch, see if it loosens fore i go on. pigpen60
Reply:Can you get a small socket on the broken bit to get it out? Looks like there may be enough sticking out.
Reply:If enough of the hex bit is sticking up, find a 6 point socket of the same size,  grind the front edge off if it has any rounding so no length is wasted, then try turning clockwise first (to re-straighten and/or  loosen the bit which currently appears distorted) and, after warming as SRO1911 suggested above, then try turning counterclockwise to loosen the setscrew. Or, if the bit stub does come out after step one, maybe use a better quality hex key and heat for step 2.If too little of the stub is protruding for the above, try using a small flat punch on the four accessible top corners of it, alternating from one to another to another to...., until it is gradually loosened.
Reply:I thought about putting a socket on it, but I can't find a 3mm socket anywhere.  Any ideas on who might sell one locally?Miller Dynasty 200DX Tig Welder
Reply:Originally Posted by mr2manI thought about putting a socket on it, but I can't find a 3mm socket anywhere.  Any ideas on who might sell one locally?
Reply:I am in Sioux Falls, SD.  I tried Sears and Orielly's and both only went down to 4mm (which is what my set goes down to).  But an idea just popped into my head... I could probably go buy a 3mm allen bolt, and grind it down to fit, and then grab onto it with a vice grip.Miller Dynasty 200DX Tig Welder
Reply:Do you have any fastener suppliers, like Olander  or Fastenal  in town? One of them is likely to have what you need.
Reply:We do have a Fastenal in town, but there are always my last resort because charge like a minimum $5 or $10 fee for any small item.  I will try Ace Hardware first, they have a pretty good selection.  I will let you know how the "repair" goes.Oh, and as far as sending it back to Browning, my guess is that they will tell me that I shouldn't have tried to take it apart.  About the only thing I could blame them for is the broken set screw or overtightening it?Miller Dynasty 200DX Tig Welder
Reply:A carbide bit would drill it But i would take it to a gunsmith and let him do it then he can fix it if he screws it upBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:If the socket deal don't work out for you, my next option would be listen to killdozer. If you do find a socket and its still tight, you may think i'm nuts but stick it in the freezer for a while and try shrinking it. Iv'e done this with once in a while success. Best of luck, why does this always happen with new stuff! If it was an old gun it would probably fall out just shooting it. Hmmm? I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:If they Lock-tited it, you might try heating it to about 350 degrees.  Won't hurt anything metallurgically if you do that carefully, sans any rubber grips and whatnot. Our Buckmark has a slotted screw and it doesn't want to come off."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:X2 on taking it to a gunsmith.  Your's probably won't be the first they've seen....
Reply:mr2man Go to a competent Browning Gun Rep./Gun Smith.Take your licks.Don't post poor discussions, and ask for absolution.Opus
Reply:2nd sending it to the manufacturer. Your crazy to mess with it yourself. Browning is in the business of making firearms and they will take care of you. "Every choice you make will effect at least one other person"
Reply:Get a long set screw that requires a 3mm allen wrench. Weld a nut on the opposite end and you now have a 3mm long socket. Remove the broken bit with it.Then you can rethink the wounded set screw removal.V
Reply:I would build up the allen key with the TIG until I could weld on a slide hammer to put it out. Then work on the set screw.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Sir, I just removed one with a diamond burr, that was broken off in the middle screw on a Remington 700. Use a burr smaller than the allen wrench, take your time, and it will come out without damage to the pistol. You almost have to bore 1/2 way (depth), then you can get a small pick in it to get it out.VanIf   you go the EDM path most any tool and die  shop that does injection molds or punch press dies will have one. There has also been a lot of other good ideas thrown out.
Reply:I had this happen last season on my muzzle loader . It happened at the breach were you put your bullet and powder and my friend and i tried tried with a socket and of course it broke . And we tried it all oil, heat ,drilling ,taping. so we went to my local gun smith and he said we did more harm than good so 300 dollars later i basically had a new gun. So my vote is take it to a gun smith .Millermatic 211 with mvp plugs miller titanium series welding helmetstihl chain saws 8 ft welding table
Reply:If you just take it to a gunsmith you will be happier than if you follow a bunch of these suggestions and damage it The smith will probably do what i would drill the key wrench with a carbide bit and  tap an easy out in to it wiggle back and forth until the allen key comes out and do it without damaging the gun or the finish  tape is a wonderful thing for protecting finishes peels off and cleans up with a little brake cleaner or acetoneThis is not rocket science but if you mess it up it's gonna cost more than if you let them do itI used to do a little gunsmithing  back when i shot pro am 3 gun tactical and seen a lot of people screw up a perfectly good gun doing stupid thingsBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by van37725Sir, I just removed one with a diamond burr, that was broken off in the middle screw on a Remington 700. Use a burr smaller than the allen wrench, take your time, and it will come out without damage to the pistol. You almost have to bore 1/2 way (depth), then you can get a small pick in it to get it out.Van
Reply:I feel your pain.  We have an older Buckmark with a slotted screw, not a hex cap screw.  Also have a broken off hex wrench my son got from scrap at a former employer.  It's German-made and I think it's 25 mm or so.  We have the long end, about 2 ft. long."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I think I'd use a Dremel diamond bit and a lot of patience.Lincoln SA200's... at least 15 - 20. They come and go. Growing partial to the "Short Hoods" in my old age. Last count on Short Hoods was 13 in possession.
Reply:Originally Posted by hobohiltonI think I'd use a Dremel diamond bit and a lot of patience.
Reply:Originally Posted by mr2manI am planning to attempt this today.  Wish me luck.
Reply:mr2manI've had a rethink on your extraction.  I would plug-weld a plated grade 8 washer with .045 Dual-Shield to the Allen recessed stub.  This will give you a larger surface to weld the nut to.Opus
Reply:Here's another idea (just crazy enough it may work )Have you tried just shooting it? Perhaps the shock and vibration from the blast will knock it out.I know its only a .22lr, so there isn't much. But stranger things have happened.Last edited by larphead; 08-19-2012 at 11:10 AM.If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:Yes, I shot about 350 rounds through it last week.  It was a lot of fun, but it didn't come out I bought a diamond dremel bit this weekend, and it did work to very slowly grind through the allen bit.  But I was not able to get the allen bit out of the set screw.  It is wedged in there too tightly.  I tried using a screw extractor bit, but the steel is too hard for it to grab onto anything.  It looks like I am going to have to send it back to Browning.  I would try welding it, but I don't want to risk ruining the receiver.Miller Dynasty 200DX Tig Welder
Reply:Re: Broken Allen Bit in Buckmark Barrel Screw.  Send-it back to the manufacturer, the set-screw will not come out that easy even with the bit out. This set-screw broken the way it is,  expands every time you induce torque to it... worse,  the cracks are sharp and will act as cutters and dig deeper into the threads. looks like bad heat treatment like we see on set screws from chineese bearings. Adding heat or tig welding might expand permanently the screw  and might also warp surrounding area.
Reply:Well good news.  I fixed it!  I ground out the stuck bit, went and shot the gun some more, after that I noticed that the barrel was slightly loose.  I ground out more of the set screw, and then the back part of the set screw broke off (it has a tapered end).  After that I was able to remove the barrel and I tried using a extractor bit, but the screw wouldn't budge (tried heat and an impact).  I put it in the drill press and I kept drilling it out one size larger until I could run a tap through it.  The only thing that I am worried about is the threads don't seem at tight as they should be, but it might just be in my head.  I am going to go shoot it a few times... and see how it handles it.  I am not sure how this screw was stuck in there so good from the factory... but something must have been messed up.  The only time I have seen things get stuck like this is from being heated up before tightening down.  Thanks for all of the help and suggestions guys!Trying to extract the set screwDrilled outTaping it.  These are the only pieces of the screw I ever saw.  I was starting to wonder if there was actually a screw with threads in there.The whole reason I went through all of this... so I could put my tactical solutions barrel on it.  And soon my YHM .22 suppressor once the paperwork clears .Miller Dynasty 200DX Tig Welder
Reply:Silence is GoldenBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck