First stick welder: Tombstone or ??

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I had a chance to run some beads on 1/4" plate with a Tombstone recently (AC with 6013). I have a couple of small jobs that are too big for my HF MIG 151 so I'm thinking it's time to get a stick welder--I have a tiny bit of experience with them from a zillion years ago. I was pretty happy with my feel running some beads so I think I can manage ok with either AC or DC. I'd use stick for HD jobs around my mini-farm such as fabbing tractor attachments and repairs. Looking at CL I see AC 225s for $50-100 but there's also inverter-type DC only units new from HF or Everlast. I don't want to spend much money since I'm only an occasional welder but would rather have the gear to do it myself than drag it to the local guy. If I get an AC-only Tombstone will I be missing out by not getting a DC unit? If I get a DC inverter style will I have some drawbacks? The AC/DC Tombstones seem hard to find used on CL these days.What say you?
Reply:I say look for a Lincoln Idealarc 250. Make sure to find an AC/DC model. Or look for a Miller Dialarc, but they tend to cost more. Both these units will last forever, and you will not outgrow them.I picked up this one for a friend for $104.50. Now I'm pi$$ed I didn't keep it for myself."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:The Tombstone is a bare bones, basic quality machine from a well respected manufacturer. I probably would have bought a used Tombstone if I were aware of one being available in my neighborhood; but there were none that I was aware of.  I considered what I was getting by stepping up to DC capibilities, and what I wanted to accomplish.  After conducting a Cost Versus Benefits Study, I chose a Hobart Stickmate AC/DC Machine.  The local welding supply let me know that the Stickmate is "just like a Miller Thunderbolt; they come off the same assembly line but are sold at a lower price point through retail channels and Millers are sold through Professional Welding Suppliers".The Stickmate give me a stepless control of the welding current, rather than a stepped control by plugging into the next higher or lower socket.A lot of good work is done with Tombstone welders, it should be very adequate for the purpose you described.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:dc stick is worth looking a little harder for...do not get a cheap inverter
Reply:DEFINITELY  DC, once you use it you will never go back. You could look for a MILLER Thunderbolt, great machine. The miller and lincoln buzz box machines are costly to run compared to a inverter type.  Is portability a issue ??? Buzz box is about 100 pounds and a inverter about 40.They each have there place. Have you thought about tig welding??? You cold invest in a used  MILLER 180 SD or 200 syncro and have the best of both worlds. Stick and tig welding .A lot more machine for the money..I got my 180 SD for $800.00 with leads. You cannot beat 6010  5P DC setting  for working on rusty old farm equipment.  Rod type makes a difference. A lot depends on how much you want to spend  and how much use it will get. Those buzz boxes still expensive. GOOD LUCK
Reply:There's usually an ac rod alternative that will do what the dc rods will do. Yes, dc is smoother but as a hack I don't find that big of a difference in them yet. To do jobs that your MIG unit wont do, I'd go with the ac buzz-box over the dc inverter, personally. You'll need a 220v socket for the ac buzzbox but you'll have a lot more power available to you to do the things your MIG unit is giving you trouble with. I wouldn't be so certain a cheap inverter would do that. Then again with multiple passes both the cheap inverter and your current MIG unit will probably do the job. And I'm not so sure the little inverter has anything to offer you over your MIG unit.It's just my unprofessional (I'm just an admitted hack) opinion that around the property to do some jobs that you want to know are good, a good old fashioned tried and trued buzz-box is the way to go. Plenty of raw power to get the job done. Plus ac will prevent arc blow if you have magnetized steel your working on. The cheap inverters have there place and if you just wanted something to get little jobs done around the house the cheap inverter is probably the way to go.Montgomery Ward Powr Kraft AC-DC 230/140
Reply:ac or dc will get you what you want with practice. in your area though, you might save your life though with DC if you are going to do any outside welding. wet or damp weather with AC can be a quick trip to the hole in the ground if you plan to do any outside welding on your mini farm. if all your welding is indoors AC will work fine....but DC will do it better and cleaner. as Nadogail said the Hobart Stickmate is a good little machine. it has more amps on the DC side than the little Lincoln (165 v 125). i have one i use in and out of the shop all the time. it's handy for the smaller low amp jobs. if i need more amps or duty cycle i fire up one of the engine drives. as already stated stay clear of the import cheapies. they are cheap to get but will it be around in 25 years or even 10?look at the bright side Sticky.....less bait for Tbone lol.Last edited by jbmprods; 01-31-2012 at 08:43 PM.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:thanks for all the replies, folks. I do have lots of 220 in the shop but given the comments I'm looking for AC/DC units but wondering if I should just get the HF TIG/Stick 98233 which is on sale right now for $399. I've seen Lincoln AC/DC 225 on CL for $275 and a Hobart Stickmate for $300 but both are a long drive from where I am and neither will so far answer my replies to their ads .SOAP BOX ON!What's up with people who put ads on CL and then never respond to inquiries? I put in my phone, full name, even where I live so they'll know I'm not some @#$%^ scammer in Nigeria but still nothing...SOAP BOX OFF!Anyway, given the relatively high price of the used non-inverter styles (as well as the lack of choices showing up on CL), and given that some people on this forum have really liked the little 98233, and that it would give me at least an entry-level, affordable TIG setup to play with in addition to stick, what's the downside (I'd certainly buy the extended HF warranty with it)?I know HF deeply divides people. I've gotten lots of good stuff and plenty of garbage from them--I'd say it's a crap shoot. But would I ever spend $1000 -$2000 on a Miller or Lincoln TIG welder just to try it out? No way, and there's absolutely zero schools around here for me to take night classes and use OP stuff (C# programming yes, welding no). What do you guys think? Harbor Freight or wait?
Reply:The down side of that small tig is that it does not have the capability to use a remote from what I can see. Not the end of the world, but it does make learning easier. It's certainly possible to learn tig without a remote, and tigs are used this way daily in the field.$400 for that little machine comes pretty close to what I've seen full industrial dedicated tigs like Miller 330 AB/P's going for from time to time on CL near me. Chances are it would come with a remote, and you would have both AC and DC capability, not to mention 300+ amps for stick/tig. The down side is those machines are large, heavy and want at lest 50-70 amps of 230v minimum to run, 100+ to go balls to the wall.Just for grins I pulled up searchtempest for my old address near Seattle and put in "tig".http://www.searchtempest.com/results...min&maxAsk=maxI see a nice Lincoln Invertec 250 listed for $800 in Seattle ( feb 2), and a nice TA85 stick tig listed for $450 in Shoreline ( jan 29) ( probably too much money and with limited output, but not bad if you can get the price down some. It wouldn't be my 1st choice however due to a bunch of factors.)  Right below that one is another unlisted Lincoln tig for $450. ( the 330AB/P at the top is WAY over priced!)There's a nice Syncrowave 180 listed for $900 in Sequim that's older ( Jan 23) I know you could easily get almost every penny out of that back if you wanted to sell it later, and they make great AC/DC stick machines as well as great AC/DC tigs. It may still be there since it's not listed well. Looks like you'd need to get a few things to do tig with it like a reg and tungstens, so you might be able to get the price lowered a bit. All in all you might get rigged up complete for a few hundred more with cylinder and reg. It would top my list along with the Lincolns listed above.Running the same search but simply using "welder" instead, I see a ton of older AC only 230v stick machines listed. A bunch of older Thunderbolts, a few AC Lincolns and a couple of Craftsmans, all less than $200. You'd need to use your zip code to narrow the search area some, since it's been almost 25 years since I lived out that way and don't know exactly where you are at.Last edited by DSW; 02-03-2012 at 12:28 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I bought the Stickmate AC/DC as my first stick welder. Lucked into an Idealarc 250 that needed some TLC for not much money and bought it. Sold the Stickmate ONLY because I didn't have room for it. I think it's a fine little machine and has slighter higher output, continuous current control, and costs less than the Lincoln AC/DC 225 machine.PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Well, DSW, thanks--unfortunately I want DC as well as AC and I don't have $800 to spend. The one listing that was interesting was the "Lincoln Arc/Tig" for $450 but it's not a TIG, it's a AC/DC 225 and at that price I might as well buy new I realize the HF doesn't have a foot pedal but it seems getting a TIG with one jacks the price up to 4 figures pretty quick. Maybe I'll wait and see if something comes up. There's a stickmate that was advertised at $300 but it's 2 hours away including a very expensive ferry ride to Bremerton to pick up and that puts the total cost right there close to $400 plus half a day to get it...ugh.
Reply:I had a small AC welding machine for home welding. I recently bought a small Lincoln DC Inverter. All I can say is: What a difference in welding. Ok, I must admit, the price of the new Lincoln was higher then the first AC machine, but it has all these things that make welding a little more fun.So I would suggest spending a little more on a new (trusted brand) machine, or a good used machine is definately worth it. You won't regret it.
Reply:I picked up this one for a friend for $104.50. Now I'm pi$$ed I didn't keep it for myself.
Reply:"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Ya, try to get one with dc as well.  There are just those times when you can do with a quiet arc.  Say you want to dabble into scratch TIG. You NEED dcen.   You may also want to discuss what other power correction equipment you may need with your electrician to see if you can swing the added cost now (or pay the power company later).