Need some structual help on hanging a swing on a new patio cover.

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Hey guys, we put up a cover over our patio yesterday and I want to hang a swing from it on one side.  I have some ideas of how I want to strengthen it up but want to get it right the first time.So basically one side of this is lag bolted to the studs on the side of the house and the opposite end is supported by two 3"x3"x14 ga tubing.  The channel that the swing will hang from is 4 3/16" x 3 x 14 ga.  The span is roughly 12' between supports.  I thought about stitch welding plates in between the purlins to make tubing out of the channel.  Pardon my cheap looking edits on the pic.I'm sure the most weight in the swing at anytime will be 400 lb max.  Is the original structure strong enough on it's own or would I be better off strengthening it up as stated above.. or I'm open to suggestions.
Reply:The weight will be a lot more than 400lbs.  I have put up several, and once the kids find it, it will fly.  Suspend it with 3/16" chain, at the top you can buy swing swivels made to bolt to timbers.  I get mine from SII Childworks.  I don't know if they sell to the public, I have a wholesale account, but you will get the idea.  If you use eyebolts, get the forged type, a standard eyebolt will break soon.   As far as reinforcing the steel it's hard to say.  Maybe 45 degree gusset in the corners  and boxing in the rafter will do it. Don't underestimate the loads wild 7 year olds will put on it. I'll try to load up a picture hangers I'm talking about.
Reply:I'd think about adding another post. Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Yep, you must concentrate on the fact that a swing is not going to be a "static load".  Even the most sedate swingers will impart a definite "push/pull" undulation or wave motion onto the supporting structures.Factor in the possibility of a swingload of surgared up kids and who knows how fierce the dynamic forces might be.
Reply:The adding a post sounds like a plan.  I have plenty of room there beside the sidewalk that runs along the house.
Reply:Here is a picture of the hanger I am talking about.  Chain is attached with a screw on shackle. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by StainlessThe adding a post sounds like a plan.  I have plenty of room there beside the sidewalk that runs along the house.
Reply:Right over a concrete pad is a really lousy spot for a child's swing.
Reply:Originally Posted by ezduzitRight over a concrete pad is a really lousy spot for a child's swing.
Reply:Originally Posted by ezduzitRight over a concrete pad is a really lousy spot for a child's swing.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPIf you add another post, you could weld your own header between the posts to hang the swing on. Then tie the header to the structure some how.
Reply:I would contact the manufacture for their load ratings. The additional column sounds good to me. You could mount the swing and tested it with a TEMPORARY screw jack set just below the tube and see how much deflection you get.
Reply:This may help to determine what you might want to use for the header. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:You might want to run a diagonal from the outside corner back to the house under the awning roof. The lateral thrust loads from that swing will tend to rock the upright back and forth stressing those expanding base concrete anchors. when they are close to the edge of a slab and movement can cause the edge of the slab to split away. I have seen several failures just from heavy spring winds over a few years. a 400 pound dead weight with be almost 50% higher as a live lateral thrust load.
Reply:Originally Posted by StainlessThat's a good idea.  Plus the pivot point will be lower so if the kids did try to get wild on it, it wouldn't swing as wild.Something like this:
Reply:You could probably do away with the pole if you take that new header all the way back to the house wall. You'd have to make it heavier though to accommodate the extra span.As far as the hangers shown earlier. I'm pretty sure Depot / Lowes sell them for building swing sets. You might have to wait a bit for them to get stock in for spring/summer as they often treat this stuff as "seasonal" and restock the  selection and choices just before the nice weather hits..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:CEP what book/manual did you pull that chart from?.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWCEP what book/manual did you pull that chart from?
Reply:@ Stainless - wouldn't use any of the aforementioned approaches.  Your current design, irrespective of where you tie in left/right/above is essentially "2D".  No accommodation for rotation/twist/racking.  You need a "3D" approach.  Those awing column supports are not config'd to resist high induced moments.  In time, those bolted connections will tear out from humans swinging to and fro.   If you do decide to do the "red line" approach with additional lateral bracing, as mentioned by others, would also install stronger moment-resistant connections at column-to-beam/concrete connections.Other may tout the above recommendation is design "overkill".  Rather have design overkill than human kill, should an overhead beam fail or a connector yield.  If it were me, would fab up a stand-alone swing with no reliance of the awing.  Adaptable, portable, and most likely in line for cost with your "red line" + upgrades approach.  It's all about your design intent."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:@ DSW - for z-section purlins, try http://www.whirlwindsteel.com/elemen...bles_small.pdfLast edited by ManoKai; 03-10-2014 at 07:39 AM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Here are a couple good charts on anchor bolts. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Where did that chart come from? Originally Posted by CEPThis may help to determine what you might want to use for the header.
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ Stainless - wouldn't use any of the aforementioned approaches.  Your current design, irrespective of where you tie in left/right/above is essentially "2D".  No accommodation for rotation/twist/racking.  You need a "3D" approach.  Those awing column supports are not config'd to resist high induced moments.  In time, those bolted connections will tear out from humans swinging to and fro.   If you do decide to do the "red line" approach with additional lateral bracing, as mentioned by others, would also install stronger moment-resistant connections at column-to-beam/concrete connections.Other may tout the above recommendation is design "overkill".  Rather have design overkill than human kill, should an overhead beam fail or a connector yield.  If it were me, would fab up a stand-alone swing with no reliance of the awing.  Adaptable, portable, and most likely in line for cost with your "red line" + upgrades approach.  It's all about your design intent.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartWhere did that chart come from?
Reply:I found the Ryerson book on their website where you can download it for free.Originally Posted by blackbartwhere you can download it for free.
Reply:I just googled Ryerson steel data book and their webpage came up with a link to a free online option.  There was several on amazon for sale as well..  The 2D swing frame I was trying to describe had two columns about 10' apart.  It's only extra support is a bigger concrete footing, but it get pushed to the limits all the time.
Reply:For your consideration....A quick calculation on force using a pendulum formula produces about 1030lbs of tension with 400lbs for a swing of only 45 degrees from center. The amount of acceleration with a swinging object is substantial and needs to be accounted for in the design. You might consider an engineered design that is free standing under your porch.A couple other considerations. If it's sunny or raining the swing will be half in and half out from under the awning. I would think one might want to be covered while swinging. The other is the concrete ends right under the swing. I think that is asking for someone to catch their foot on it and take a nice faceplant in to the porch concrete.Regards,RobGreat Basin WeldingInstagramBlue weldersRed weldersMy luscious Table DIY TIG Torch cooler
Reply:I didn't mean for everyone to discourage him, it's a cool place for a porch swing and definately doable. Just be aware when kids see it they the will love it.  The roof sheathing alone adds quite a bit of shear strength.  I wouldn't lower  it, just use common sense. A second pole with a big footing is a good idea, unless the bench is hung by chains and swings side to side too much. You might hang it first after some obvious reinforcing, then just see what else it needs. If it doesn't look safe you can always hang individual fabric chairs from it.  Just do it and send pictures!
Reply:Just buy/build a free standing swinging bench. They had them at Lowes a while back for a little over a hundred buck. No old on your patio cover, and you can move it around.
Reply:As a serious, long term swingaholic, I've long ago come to the conclusion that just about all swings should be free standing.Let the light weight awning be an awning, and let the swing be a swing.Depending on the time of year, the swing should be out in the sun/under the stars.... or under shelter. Free standing frame let's you do that. Swings impart significant stresses beyond the weights involved (as has been mentioned) and those will cycle a simply built structure over time.No need to stress the awning frame, house attachments. I like the glider type 2 chain swings too.I build them as tall as possible given the location(s). Build cup holders into the armrests to hold the cold lemonade and the hot coffee/hot chocolate. Bigger, curved seats are mo better after a few minutes. Footrest's can be good or bad depending. Swing away/sleeve in trays work good for cookouts or outside work with a laptop or real paper book or perusing blueprints.Swing frames can be made as ornamental as your imagination allows.Just my take on it so feel free to ignore : )JT
Reply:Well I appreciate everyone's advice.  I have put a lot of thought into it and haven't disregarded anyone's opinion at all.  I've weighed the ups and downs of swings, types and where to put them and I just can't convince myself to do it any other way.  I'll take pics when done and test it out.  If it screws up, then I'll suck it up and post my results.  I've made a slight adjustment to how I'm going to do it and I think it will help a lot.  I may be wrong but I'll find out the hard way.  I'm still going to hang it as shown in my last picture but I'm also going to make a brace on each leg as well.  A 45 to the ground and bolted as well.  I've got to get the swing up first to see how far I can come out with them.  If weather permits, I'll have this done Saturday afternoon.
Reply:Those 45-degree bracing are a good idea! The higher the better.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:those 45s are going to be prime trip hazards. People tend to walk by posts and anything sticking out low like that will catch them as it will blend into the post visually. If you are going to put those up out in front of the uprights, might as well just move the swing frame in that far and take it up to the roof.  That way people will see the upright and avoid it instead of tripping on the 45.
Reply:I was thinking of building some round end tables off of the braces.  I'll have to design it after it's done to see what would look best.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPThose 45-degree bracing are a good idea!...
Reply:Originally Posted by ezduzitActually their contribution is insignificant, structurally.
Reply:Originally Posted by StainlessI would have to disagree with that.
Reply:Originally Posted by ezduzitActually their contribution is insignificant, structurally.
Reply:Stainless just won this argument. Add two 45 pipes in an inverted v.Personally, I'd have made a ladder.Add a second tube under that side with uprights every 12 or so inches. Strap the swing to that.Last edited by Burpee; 03-12-2014 at 07:18 AM.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartI just googled Ryerson steel data book and their webpage came up with a link to a free online option.  There was several on amazon for sale as well..  The 2D swing frame I was trying to describe had two columns about 10' apart.  It's only extra support is a bigger concrete footing, but it get pushed to the limits all the time.