Made my own Chain Binder.

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Chain binder to hold on the excavator duckbill attachment I have posted about previously see pic below:Anyways --- we have been using a turnbuckle to hold it on but the hooks are too small and they dont hold up long... and nobody really makes a good "small" threaded binder... so i ordered some LH thread components from mcmaster and got to work.3/32 red, machine set at 100, 1/16 filler.The body of the binder is only 6" long.The rings on each side are to keep the nut in the middle from wearing out as it hits the bucket while being turned...Painted it red because thats the color of chain binders. The welding...Miller Dynasty 300 DXMiller CST280Miller Maxstar 150 STH
Reply:that looks great, real good idea-NateMiller Trailblazer 302gMiller Spoolmatic 30aLN-25 x 2Idealarc SP200Hypertherm Powermax 600
Reply:Pretty cool....!  At least it's MADE IN THE USA
Reply:Dont know if its a legal tie down per DOT.    theres no WLL or manufacturers stamp.     Good idea but im pretty sure if you get an officer who didnt get any action the night before if it will hold muster.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Pretty sure for this application the DOT isn't going to care.  That is a great idea!  Think I'll be making one of those duckbills for our Kubota mini!  Cool!
Reply:That's nice work and a great idea.But I would worry about the DOT.Around here they pull trucks over all the time.They seem to have a thing for trailers hauling equipment.Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:So the DOT is going to pull up to a worksite, and climb down in a sludgy hole to make sure your duckbill is held on with a DOT approved binder?  I kinda doubt it.This thing isn't being used to bind a load to a trailer for transport.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:No, but if the binder is attached to the machine and the machine is on the trailer, I could see some over zealous DOT guy giving you a raft of sh1t because you have the cutting edge "chained down to the trailer" by chaining it to the bucket.As stupid as this sounds, you have to remember that this is an easy ticket for them to write up. You have a chain, and non standard binder, securing the cutting edge, and it's on the trailer. All true, even if it is only used for digging. The point is once he writes the ticket, you now have to go prove to the judge that this isn't a violation. Keep in mind the judge won't know cr@p about excavation. he'll see a chain, and a nonstandard binder on a piece of equipment if he looks at picts, and he'll have the DOT cop who says this was used to make sure the "damaged" cutting edge stayed on the trailer. Assuming ignorance on the judges part as far as equipment tie downs and excavation, I'll bet you would loose the case, even though you are "right". Chances are the judge will think you've come up with a "creative" story to try and get out of a "legit" ticket.Looked at it one way, the cop could technically be right as well. As soon as you load the machine on the trailer, that binder suddenly becomes a securing devise for the cutting edge, even if it is used for digging most of the time. You are using a non standard binder to keep the edge from leaving the trailer, and there is no other form of attachment that keeps the edge on the bucket. It will be really hard to argue that it's NOT securing the edge ( an "unsecured" edge would be worse).Keep in mind most DOT cops have one purpose, revenue gathering. Right or wrong, once they write the ticket you are F'd. In court no matter that in theory you are innocent until proven guilty, chances are you are really guilty until you prove the cop is wrong. Almost by definition, the cop is the "expert" and the judge almost always sides with them on convoluted "technical" matters.I'll bet you almost all the guys commenting on the DOT angle have had run in with cops like this in the past.Honestly I'd never load the machine on the trailer with that attached. I'd probably never leave it in the trailer tongue with the other binders either, for this exact reason. While it's a very nice piece of work, I've just had too many run in with DOT cops over the years and know too many other drivers who have had similar stupid tickets written ( and lost), to want that on any trailer, except at the bottom of the scrap pile..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I have to agree with some of the others, DOT is going to be a potential problem.In your case you think it is a good build and im sure you learned alot in the build, but has it been engineered and designed to take the stress loads associated with boomers? If i remember correctly they are designed with a 3-4:1 safety factor just for the reason of stress.Now im sure you can argue with the DOT that your a good welder, but without proper testing processes and analysis what you have there is a potential lawsuit.I'll tell you what, you can send it to my company and we can do all the stress analysis as well as qualifying testing for the design - granted it would cost you around $45,000 just for that one design, but once it meets DOT criteria and passes the Qualifying test, then you can make as many you like.IMHO - get rid of it - if that hit my car I would sue you for every penny and at least 1/2 of every paycheck or income you get until you die, if not all of it. There are too many lawyers out there willing to take you for everything you have just because you wanted to save $15 by building your own binder.I break things for a living...
Reply:wow guys, there is a really simple solutions to this, Take the edge off before trailering. stick it in the cab or the bed of  the truck and move on down the road. and any lawyer worth your money would be able to get you out of any BS ticket that a cop might want to give. Also, if there is a thumb on that arm all he's got to do is close it to hold the bill on. which would negate any chains holding it on. Nice work silverado.Nice workThere are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Let's not forget this is a one owner machine with 2 operators. The only person that ever moves it is me... We do not generally move the machine with the blade on it - the blade and 1' bucket ride in the bed of the tow vehicle... All it does is hold a 50lb cutting edge over the teeth of the bucket when grading up and trenching...If for some reason I do not tow it - it is the responsibility of the driver to ensure that their load is safe... Should I stamp "NOT FOR LOAD BINDING" on it? It is also definitely safer than the pot metal turnbuckle we have been using... I won't loose any sleep over using it, when digging... we're a small 4 guy mom and pop family owned and run excavating business... We know all about the DOT and always comply.Miller Dynasty 300 DXMiller CST280Miller Maxstar 150 STH
Reply:Thanks for the compliments tho!Miller Dynasty 300 DXMiller CST280Miller Maxstar 150 STH
Reply:Also smokindodge -- I did not build it to save any money I built it because we could not find any small threaded chain binders...Miller Dynasty 300 DXMiller CST280Miller Maxstar 150 STH
Reply:DSW Ive been hauling heavy equipment for about 20 yrs or more, Ive NEVER rung into an over zellious DOT copLearning one rod at a time
Reply:Originally Posted by SilveradoShould I stamp "NOT FOR LOAD BINDING" on it? It is also definitely safer than the pot metal turnbuckle we have been using...
Reply:Originally Posted by jpump5That's nice work and a great idea.But I would worry about the DOT.Around here they pull trucks over all the time.They seem to have a thing for trailers hauling equipment.
Reply:Originally Posted by Silverado...Painted it red because thats the color of chain binders.
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoBut where is the regulation that promolgates that chain binders be red?  I see them in many colors: orange, yellow, green, black, rusty brown, brass-like dyed cadmium coated, silver-like undyed zinc chromate, just about every color but vanilla or pink.  And I'll bet if I look just a bit harder I will find pink and vanilla too!- Mondo
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerany lawyer worth your money would be able to get you out of any BS ticket that a cop might want to give.
Reply:One word.  S-O-L-I-D!
Reply:Originally Posted by SilveradoAlso smokindodge -- I did not build it to save any money I built it because we could not find any small threaded chain binders...
Reply:Smokin,Thats what he was trying to replace.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by smokin_dodgehttp://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-turnbuckles/=jdl7i7All the way down to 1/4" - Odds are mcmaster has it in stock...
Reply:I thought they were called boomers but I would take your binder over a brand new Harbor Freight boomer any day. Nice work and so was the Duckbill.
Reply:Great build, you kept it heavy duty while shrinking it down in size.Great job Silverado - some people on here seem to be here to just find any kind of fault - even if there is none they WILL make one up.    This is NOT a Dot issue. We have had some of the same issues as you have when putting a slick edge on - thats a neet way to solve it.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW...I've mentioned it before, I had a friend with a brand new Kenworth triaxle, one week off the show room floor, that was empty, who got hit for 5 tickets for about $32K in fines IIRC at one DOT stop. They hit him for an "unsecured load" for having a shovel in an optional factory holder. No strap. It's not designed to have a strap, and it locks so there's zero possibliity that the shovel can come out, but the cop wrote him up the same as if he had a machine on the back with no chains. My buddy simply tossed the shovel in the bed and ran the tarp over it so he could leave, and the cop was ok with that. ...
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoSo what is this state of Tyranny in which you live?  When I take my next tour of the USA I want to be sure I avoid it and not spend any of my tourist dollars there.
Reply:My big beef with the DOT, and I started hauling in DSW's state of confusion is that they wont give you the same answer all the time. My friend that lives in pa has gotten stopped with his F350 pulling a camper, they just use the truck for camping nuttin else. Now here, SC, my 350 dosnt requrie and spical tag. But when I go into NC Im sposta stop at the scales cause Im over 10k. Now that said when were were going to a show last weekend there was a motor home pulling a real nice Benz suv that was so close to the back of a semi truck that the drive could count the rivets on the back of the door. These people can get away with running stupid, over hours ect. That motor home was on a 26k chassi and has air brakes. So its ok cause the owner has more money, or the bank dose, than sense? Its true that you need to have the hydro atachments chained down. I dont agree whith this in some cases. I was huling a D5 off a job one time and got stopped. I had 4 chains on the undercarrage it was chained correctly. Except that I didnt have one on the blade. I was told that I needed one on the blade so it didnt move. I looked at the cop and asked, wheres it going to go, other than up. He responded quickly and said yes up. So it will move 3 feet upward in the case I run the truck into the ditch. I simply told him I wouldnt worrie about the blade just the rest of the truck! Now hauling excovators and back hoes I do chain the booms, and buckets on them. We had one drive get popped with a 322 with a hammer on it. You slide the hammer between the track frames and it reaches almost the the back. My thought is if you crash the hammer will his the trach frames, at least 3 feet of them either direction. LOL the DOT cop didnt see it that way! Bottom line is just try and be as safe as you can. Take the extra 5 min and double check your load or put one more binder on the load to keep you out of the dog house. Just my .02 worth of a rant. Oh and they want me to scale this in NC, it aint going to happen till they pull me over and scale me on the side of the road! Attached ImagesLearning one rod at a time
Reply:Nice build.  It always feels good to make something your self.  I don't deal with DOT but if it is a big problem look at http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...4124_200514124
Reply:DSW is correct on this account.  I have had many run ins with DOT.  My last employer's work truck had a trip switch in it that killed the blinker/brake light.  If the DOT pulled you over you simply flipped the switch and it would pop the fuse.  You would get your ticket and he would see you replace the fuse and off you would go.  It was a lot cheaper than him spending time really looking.  But then there were those times that you would get one at the end of the month that would rack up vacation expenses on you.I think there is a fine balance  that needs to be struck.  I see things on the road I wish a DOT would catch and then see them off on the side of the road with what appears to be minor issues.My neighbor has a grain truck I repair for him on occasion.  He will have minor dust leaving his truck as he drives.  It is impossible to completely contain all the minute dust and bits that come out of the grain silos.  He will be pulled over for loss of load because of it.  I don't know why he love the open road so much.  I guess it is in his blood.
Reply:Id just take it off and throw the damn thing at the guy whinin about dot and the dot officer, i figured out if i keep my unit under 10,000#, i dont half to deal with them, works great for me, pull me over lets scale it. But in all honesty, just paint it dirt so they wont see it and be done with it.I forgot how to change this.
Reply:I'd ditch one of the hooks and attach it directly to one end of the chain so it requires tools to remove.  That way it is an adjustable part of the equipment rather than a load binder.  I'd still remove the duck bill when towing.My name's not Jim....
Reply:by the way, I like what you made.  I think it has a lot of promise, but it can get ya in trouble.  I give it two thumbs up for it's intended purposes.
Reply:Originally Posted by Vince_o...Oh and they want me to scale this in NC, it aint going to happen till they pull me over and scale me on the side of the road!
Reply:Originally Posted by Mondo  Rated for over 3k gross so it has the obligatory brakes
Reply:This is what Im talking about. 2k on an empty trailer, in this state one axle has to have brakes, Ga has to have brakes on both, theres no set pattern. I dont know if its still this way but hauling coal out of Pa into WVa when we had to scale our trucks we had to lift the tag axle to weigh. In Pa we could leave it down. Ohio never really cared, as long as you were going the speed limit.  Mondo the front tractor weighs just a few lbs under 1000, the red one about 850 and the yellow about 750 to 800. I dont know what the trailer weighs, but it aint going threw the scales!Learning one rod at a time
Reply:I like the Boostinjdm idea of marrying the tool to the chain or just wiring with safety wire to the duck bill. That way it isnt sepperrated when you need it. I would not stamp anything on it, you could be setting yourself up. As far as lawyers go, I would call it a HEIM JOINT for Chains drop the binder name and tell the SOB that threatened to sue you for life to stik the lawyer and break it off.Besides,you sound more qualified with the DOT than the naysayers. There will always be the naysayers.Last edited by Insaneride; 09-23-2012 at 11:41 AM.Reason: off, DOT
Reply:I would really rather not marry it to the bill because i am planning on building a bill for our 12" bucket in the next couple of weeks... i suppose i could always make another one and marry it to that but that project may have to wait until another day.Miller Dynasty 300 DXMiller CST280Miller Maxstar 150 STH
Reply:Ah heck i missed the fact that it was to secure the duck bill to your rock bucket!    I thought it was for tying donwn the live attachment (bucket arm)  for transport. We have always just cut a couple pieces of plate and plug welded them to the bucket instead of a fancy duck bill.     To remove it we just rolled the bucket back against the weld and they usually broke right off.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Well, here ya go http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul.../cs-policy.htmBottom line, it depends on the ******* who pulls you over.  Some guys think they're mechanical engineers, and will dun ya for just about everything"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:According to the di@khead who performed my safety audit for Fed DOT, this load is illegal because it isn't "unitized".There's a gap between the bales, thus making it possible for them to shift Let's face it............if this thing comes to a screeching hault against a bridge abuttment IT'S GONNA SHIFT, and I really won't give a da@@ because I'll be dead.  This is a joke.The downward pressure of the straps securing the top bales act as a wedge to prevent the bales from moving unless you hit something at around 80mph.  Let's face it .......hay loads are unstable, and that's that.  Want better loads, be prepared to pay more for your beef at the supermarket.Talk to me about unsecured loads when I'm dodging a crappy baby seat or something laying in the back of a pickup truck that decides to fly out on the highway because the wind lifted it These stinkin things weigh around 1200lbs apiece, THEY AIN'T GOIN ANYWHERES ANYTIME SOON"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:and by the way...............I was told I have to have 1 million dollars insurance if I transport a tractor, because it has oil, diesel, and batteries.  The insurance has to cover the hazmat cleanup if I wreck.HOW COME CARS DONT' HAVE THIS CRAP, THEY HAVE GASOLINE, BATTERIES, AND OTHER STUFF TOO.  stinkin Republicans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:LOL don't blame it on the republicans.  They aren't the leftist tree huggers that have highjacked the EPA and have lost their common sense.  Mind you I am not a republican or a democrat.  I have morals and common sense.
Reply:Sam your so right. YOu ever see a hazmat clean up crew when a car blows a rad on the side of the road? But if your freightshaker dose it, look out every hazmat team in the county will be there to clean up 5 gal of anti freeze! LMAO!Learning one rod at a time
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott Young Mind you I am not a republican or a democrat.  I have morals and common sense.
Reply:Sorry but a 1200 lb bale can move, been on the receiving end of that bs. Of course it took great stupidity on the drivers part. Hard S curve with a steep pitch marked 20 mph and he was clocked at sixty. Fool didn't ever stop just kept losing bales, until the troopers blocked him in.
Reply:You should have called it a turn buckle from the first post.  I think it's a great ideaDan D.
Reply:Originally Posted by rand7819Sorry but a 1200 lb bale can move, been on the receiving end of that bs. Of course it took great stupidity on the drivers part. Hard S curve with a steep pitch marked 20 mph and he was clocked at sixty. Fool didn't ever stop just kept losing bales, until the troopers blocked him in.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammTalk to me about unsecured loads when I'm dodging a crappy baby seat or something laying in the back of a pickup truck that decides to fly out on the highway because the wind lifted it