woodworking vise resto - need to do some un-brazing

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I've had this rusty woodworking vise sitting on the basement floor for years and yesterday when I was doing some organizing, I decided it was high time to start cleaning it up.  I remember noticing when I got it that someone had done a braze repair to the front jaw (it was given to me, so it was kind of hard to be nit-picky about free stuff).  After removing the handle and the two guide rods, the front jaw was free.  A little wire wheeling and a sandblasting and I had a clearer picture of what I was dealing with.  The casting says "FERNEY VISE MFG. FOR G.R. RAND SCREW CO".  Googling turns up next to nothing on Ferney or G.R. Rand.While looking at the jaw, I noticed that the portion of the inside face below the repair looked angled away from the portion above the repair.  I reinstalled the guide rods and confirmed my suspicion with a square - the upper portion of the jaw is 1/16" to 3/32" out of square with the quide rods when measured at the top of the jaw.  So it either got brazed back together a little wonky or the braze joint yielded after the repair during use.I'd like to see if I can un-braze this and fix it right (either by brazing or welding).  Has anyone ever un-brazed cast stuff like this?  Am I correct in assuming I will never get all the brazing alloy off just by heating it since it has probably gotten into the texture/porosity of the casting?  What would be the best thing to heat it with to get it apart?  Oxy-propane? Attached Images
Reply:If the brazing is sound, can you just grind the face so the top touches about 1/32" before the bottom and then tighten it and grind the top and side surfaces square?  As a simpleton - i.e. without good equipment - that would be my first thought.Although it's almost 30 years old, I'm using my 10" record wood vise, on a HEAVY maple bench, for metalworking almost every day.  But it's never been broken ... Attached ImagesLast edited by Fabn4Fun; 09-19-2012 at 11:57 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fabn4FunIf the brazing is sound, can you just grind the face so the top touches about 1/32" before the bottom and then tighten it and grind the top and side surfaces square?  As a simpleton - i.e. without good equipment - that would be my first thought.
Reply:The brazing is no longer sound.    I was going to ask my buddy to do it with his oxy-propane setup tomorrow, but I found a little steel tray that was bigger than the jaw and small enough to fit in my ceramic kiln, so in it went.  Got some nice blobs of brazing alloy in the tray and now the jaw is in two pieces again.  Gonna do a little cleanup machining to make sure the faces on the lower portion are square with the bores and that the back of the upper portion is flat... Attached Images
Reply:dbotos  -  Sharpen your sword  -  Opus
Reply:Wow, that's a lot of work to improve a $50 woodworking vise but go for it!
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinWow, that's a lot of work to improve a $50 woodworking vise but go for it!
Reply:Now gee, why didn't I think of tossing it in a ceramics kiln to debraze... Oh that's right, probably because I don't HAVE a ceramics kiln....Definitely a different way to go about this. My 1st though seeing this last night was the Irish or Forhire would probably have chucked this in the mill, indexed the part to the bores and milled the face true to the bores. That or indexed the machine to the face, then bored out the holes and pressed in new bushings instead. I never thought of tossing it in a furnace, but then the only one here I can think of that usually does stuff like this would be Castweld and I haven't seen any of his posts lately.Always interesting to see the novel ways guys here approach projects and come up with "inventive" solutions most of us wouldn't think of..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thinking about this a bit more. Have you ever thought about doing any casting? Get a small crucible and some green casting sand and you could do some interesting stuff in alum or brass using the kiln as your furnace..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ummm, too late now ... but if the upper edge of the jaw face was 'out of square' as referenced to the guide rod by being ~1/16 'too tight' (angled in at the top edge) then that might have been on purpose or as designed.So that in use the top edge (which is farthest away from the guide rod and the tightening screw) would touch the workpiece first and then as the vise jaws tighten further and the jaw face deflects a bit as it is tightened you pretty much end up being back to having the top edge 'in line' once the jaw is tightened.If the top edge had a 'gap' of 1/16 though, then yeah, something probably shifted slightly when the face was brazed back together.If the vise worked fine as it was in opening and closing with no binding from the jaws to the screw or guide rods and the braze repair was sound (again, too late now), I would have just put the thing to use and planed the sacrificial wooden jaws so that the 'working faces' were parallel as desired.  You know, the wooden sacrificial 'soft' jaws that get mounted to the actual metal jaws, so that the wooden (or plastic or leather or etc)  'soft' jaws are what is actually touching your usually wooden workpiece (it is a 'woodworking' vise after all).Or done the whole ' index the screw and guide rod bores to be parallel to one another and them to be perpendicular to the jaw face and machine as needed'.  But to do that I (or you) would need a mill.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseUmmm, too late now ... but if the upper edge of the jaw face was 'out of square' as referenced to the guide rod by being ~1/16 'too tight' (angled in at the top edge) then that might have been on purpose or as designed.So that in use the top edge (which is farthest away from the guide rod and the tightening screw) would touch the workpiece first and then as the vise jaws tighten further and the jaw face deflects a bit as it is tightened you pretty much end up being back to having the top edge 'in line' once the jaw is tightened.If the top edge had a 'gap' of 1/16 though, then yeah, something probably shifted slightly when the face was brazed back together.
Reply:I would have just shimmed or planed the wooden "soft jaw" inserts to get whatever squareness was desired with the vise snugged closed."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseIf the top edge had a 'gap' of 1/16 though, then yeah, something probably shifted slightly when the face was brazed back together.
Reply:I did the hammer test and the spark test on the lower portion of the jaw tonight and it definitely appears to be cast iron.  Gonna hit the inside face with the surface grinder tomorrow and see how perpendicular it comes out to the bores...
Reply:Ground the inside face.  Now I need to get some pins made or get this on a CMM so I can see how perpendicular it is to the bores... Attached Images
Reply:Dude, It's a woodworking vise.It's not a precision indexed work surface for a CNC machine.It holds a chunk of wood while you work on it.If you are doing all this and having fun with it 'just because', then by all means have at it.Otherwise, put it back together, put some 'soft' jaws on it (I'm usually partial to hard maple jaws for general usage), and let it hold your chunk of wood while you work on that wood.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Judging from the original off-center holes in the casting, this specimen wasn't a top-of-the-line vise to begin with."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:It was just bugging me that the jaw wasn't straight/flat.  I could have gone out and bought a new one for $30 or $40 by now, but this one seemed nice and heavy duty, has some character to it, and was free.  So far on this project, I've unbrazed a part for the first time, refreshed my memory on testing a part to see if it's cast iron or steel, and surface ground cast iron for the first time (which really didn't seem any different than steel).