Questions about "drag rods" and "7014."

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I'm NOT a professional welder, so pardon the ignorant questions....I've read that 7024 is a "drag rod."  Would 7014 also be considered a "drag rod" too?  Also, does 7014 have similar welding characteristics as 6013, or are the two completely different?  I know that 6013 was designed for sheet metal originally on DC-, yet works well on AC.  I know from SOME little experience that is doesn't penetrate that much and produces lots of slag.  I just got a "TON" of FREE 7014 in two 50lb unopened canisters and I've been playing with it.  I see that it puts out a lot of weld metal and a ton of slag too.  It reminded me of 6013, but perhaps I'm not moving fast enough and/or my arc gap is incorrect.  Am I correct in the belief that 6013 and 7014 are very similar?  (Yes, I do know that the difference between the "60" and "70" are tensile strength).  Am I missing something else between the two types of electrodes?  What's all your personal opinion(s) of 7014?  Finally, is 7014 best on AC or DC?  I've seen some mixed reviews on Google and NOT from welding forums (primarily an off road forum from NON-WELDERS).   Seems like 7014 is not used much any longer.   Would I like  7014 better moving up or down when welding vertical?Thank you very much. "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:Lots of questions here. With stick welding you always use a drag angle, as opposed to pushing.With stick welding, electro-magnetic forces cause the puddle and and the molten slag to be repelled by the arc. Dragging the arc blows the slag backwards, away from the leading edge of the puddle.Pushing directs some of the slag forwards where it may get underneath the molten metal resulting in cold laps and slag inclusions.The flux on 6013 and 7014 have a similar composition. 7014 has a much thicker coating (obviously), and with the addition of about 40% iron powder. The advantage of iron powder being it increases the amount of current that can be used for a given size electrode, and increases the weld metal deposition rate. Faster travel speed can be used, at least compared to 6012 or 6013. 7024 is also similar to 7014, except the coating is thicker still and has about 60% iron powder, (I think.) There are also some differences in the flux and the steel chemistry. The flux is designed to be thin, fast melting, and highly fluid. 7024 are designed to be used in flat and horizontal welds only. 7014 and 7024 were invented in the late 1930's. When the wire feed processes, MIG and gas-shielded FCAW were developed in the 50's and 60's, they rendered these types of electrodes almost obsolete. Wire feed can give you practical weld production rates 2x, 3x faster than stick welding. Up to 4x faster with high current spray transfer MIG . You don't have to stop every 5 inches and get a new electrode. With MIG spray you don't have to waste time and materials cost chipping slag off onto the floor.You want to use 7018 for vertical-up welds on thick plate. For out-of-position welds, I can tell you that 7018 is superior in every respect to 7014. ( I mean, if you have a bunch of free 7014 rods, feel free, but nobody uses 7014 anymore. that's why they gave it away.)On anything thicker than 1/4 (7mm) you always want to weld vertical up. Also note that rods like 7014 and 7018 should not be used for vertical down. They have a thick, sluggish, slow-melting slag and vertical down is likely to cause slag inclusions and lack-of-fusion defects.On thin plate, thinner than 3/16, it's best to use vertical down, with 6010/6011, 6012, or 6013. 6013 is best for welding especially thin materials down to 1/16" or maybe thinner.  All of these rods have a thin, rather fluid slag which reduces the chance of slag inclusions for vertical down. 6010/6011 also produce good penetration when used for the same. However you don't want penetration on especially thin stuff, do you?6010 is also traditionally used for bridging the open root for pipe welding.  Whenever there's a gap to fill you always want to weld vertical-down. (6010 is largely being replaced in this application by MIG short-circuit,  which is more productive.)Hope this helps, dude.
Reply:Joshfromsaltlake,,,,,,, wow! Thank you for the detailed info!! I appreciate you taking the time to explain all that.  Yeah, it was funny that I got 100lbs of the stuff for free.  Had I not taken it, it was bound for a dumpster.  As you indicated, the company manager I got it from said it had been sitting for over 10 years and all his welders use MIG and TIG exclusively.  I asked if he wanted to get rid of an "old" stick welder (haha) too, but he said, "nope.".   He said they still use stick on really really thick steel......... "once in a while." "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:7014 is a nice all position rod for the home hobbyist. It's easy to use and doesn't have any of the storage issues low hydrogen rod like 7018 does, and has better strength characteristics than 6013, but has a bit better penetration. I keep 7014 around the house for "emergency" stick repairs on things like my plow simply because it stores better than 7018. I simply don't use enough stick to warrant a rod oven, though for important planned jobs I will buy a new sealed can of 7018. An open 50 lb can of 7018 will be junk before the average hobbyist will ever have a chance to use 1/2 of it. 7014 if kept with basic care in a rod tube will out weld 7018 stored the same way after similar open time, over and over as the rods age and the 7018 absorbs moisture.Both the tech schools near me use 7014 as a teaching rod. It's a simple easy rod to learn on. You learn the basics with 7014, then move on to running 7018. Because it's a drag rod it will allow the student to limit his variables and concentrate on travel speed and rod position and eliminate having to maintain a consistent arc length for the time being. In industry 7014 may be dieing, yet I see more and more hobby guys, farmers and so on using 7014 now vs 6013..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW7014 is a nice all position rod for the home hobbyist. It's easy to use and doesn't have any of the storage issues low hydrogen rod like 7018 does, and has better strength characteristics than 6013, but has a bit better penetration. I keep 7014 around the house for "emergency" stick repairs on things like my plow simply because it stores better than 7018. I simply don't use enough stick to warrant a rod oven, though for important planned jobs I will buy a new sealed can of 7018. An open 50 lb can of 7018 will be junk before the average hobbyist will ever have a chance to use 1/2 of it. 7014 if kept with basic care in a rod tube will out weld 7018 stored the same way after similar open time, over and over as the rods age and the 7018 absorbs moisture.Both the tech schools near me use 7014 as a teaching rod. It's a simple easy rod to learn on. You learn the basics with 7014, then move on to running 7018. Because it's a drag rod it will allow the student to limit his variables and concentrate on travel speed and rod position and eliminate having to maintain a consistent arc length for the time being. In industry 7014 may be dieing, yet I see more and more hobby guys, farmers and so on using 7014 now vs 6013.
Reply:Originally Posted by JoshfromsaltlakeWith stick welding you always use a drag angle, as opposed to pushing.
Reply:I really like 7014, leaves a very nice looking weld when your done and the slag comes off very well if you have your heat and speed right, it will almost peel itself off. Tends to be a very smooth rod and is less prone to sticking than 7018 and does not have the storage issues
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverAlways... and that includes never, like in situations such as welding uphill lol
Reply:As this thread progresses it has some good info.  I don't use the 7014 rod.  it is a good rod though.  it is a contact rod or "drag" rod.  The rod should maintain slight contact with the base metal.  Basically, the edge of the flux will touch the metal.  it does tolerated a very minumal arc gap, but  be careful because it is easy to long arc the rod and 7014 doesn't perform well long arcing.
Reply:E-7014 is E-6013 with iron powder nothing more , in my part time job in my boses son shop we tack with it . It is E-70 for the inspectors but not  low hydrogen . E-7028 is the same but low hydrogen ok for bridge work . At Harris we only use E-8018 C-3 Excalaber color match for A-588 work and for everything else except 70 & 100  ksi work which is done with E-9018 . John
Reply:I like 7014.During a 10-week stick welding course, I got to try several electrodes, essenitially side-by-side doing the same lap and T joints - over and over again.6013: I hated 6013... just too easy to momentraily long arc and 'poop' out a slag line.  Screws the entire weld!  For me, this is a drag-only rod; if I tried to maintain a constant arc gap, I'd risk slag deposits.  YUK!7014: I like this rod; goes down just as nice as new from the oven 7018.  You notice the difference after a few weeks, when the 7014 still runs great and the cooled-down, mosisture-absorbed 7018 spits and snarls with an anrgy flippant arc.6010 and 6011: They have their place and applications.  When it's just got to penetrate and hold in position the first time, that's my go-to rod!  I can fill in with anything else later - but for first contact... #1 choice.So enjoy your... OMG 100 lbs!...  of free 7014.  That's a Gift! (100 lbs of free 6013... that'd be a Curse!) Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Only thing left to mention is polarity.  Myself I prefer electrode negative for E 6013 and E 7014.
Reply:You can run 7018 and 7014 downhill.  you have to be able to hold a tight arc and have a keen eye on rod angle  the closer to 90* the better.Just clearing up some misinformation.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammYou are dragging when welding uphill.Just because the rod is slightly ahead of the puddle, it's still dragging.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverI'm not sure how you figure? If the rod is pointing/aiming the direction of travel then it's pushing. If the rod is pointing/aiming away from the direction of travel then it's pulling/dragging. When welding vertical the rod is aiming up, lower than horizontal, so it's pushing. You stay ahead of the slag so none gets entrapped.If you were dragging the rod welding uphill then the rod would be aiming downward with the stinger above the weld the whole time.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joshfromsaltlake6010 is also traditionally used for bridging the open root for pipe welding.  Whenever there's a gap to fill you always want to weld vertical-down.
Reply:Originally Posted by Zca4Do not listen to that.
Reply:doublepostWelding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:6010 still has slag you have to remove.  and yes you can trap slag with 6010.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverI wouldn't say whenever either, but doesn't 6010 have a cellulose flux which burns out so there's no slag to entrap so you technically could weld downhill?