Custom dual flow regulators. What have you made?

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Just wondering if any of you guys have made your own dual flow regulators some how. Dual flow regulator meaning a one line to run your welder and the other line to hook up for a back purge. I have two regulators and was thinking of running to ACE hardware to rig up something of my own. I just wanted to see if you guys had done something similar, and to maybe see some examples.
Reply:You can just buy a valved Y-connection from Western Enterprises and split your argon output, but a better way is to get a CGA-580 tee and put a regulator on each output.  That way the purge isn't competing with your rig.I don't buy "dual" regulators because if one breaks then both are down. With a tee you can just swap out the bad reg. The tee is also cheaper than the Y.The Y is Western #411, the Tee is a  312-T-92 Manifold Male CGA-580 Coupler Tee. Attached Images
Reply:That looks like the perfect solution. I like your way of thinking about one breaking and the other still being good. Can I buy the CGA-580 Tee valve at Western Enterprises or is that something you can get at any welding supply store?EDIT: Ok, I see that CGA-580 is the style of fitting that the Argon/helium bottles use.  CGA-580 is not the part number for the Tee itself. Oh, AND you did say this "Tee is a 312-T-92 Manifold Male CGA-580 Coupler Tee." I just wasn't paying attention.Last edited by DiabolicZ; 03-01-2011 at 05:32 PM.
Reply:I use a dual regulator & I put it AFTER the tigger. this is so I can have different flow rates for the torch & the purge & also so I can't forget to turn off the purge, I just tap the foot pedal to get some gas flow, a large item maybe have to tap again after the initial post flow to get enough flow, really large items I'll reach over & temporarily crank the flow way up on the purge then back it off when purged enough, then when my purge is ready I weld, when done the purge stops at the same time as the post flow... I also have a flow regulator at the tank so I can regulate total flow, then the dual kinda acts like a see saw balancing the purge & the torch...  I wasted so much gas purging any other way because I'd always forget to turn the purge back off, this solves that for me...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:You can get Western Enterprises brass at any local welding store or Google (I use "best prices" after the item name) for the best deal online. It's faster to Google "Western Enterprises" and what you are looking for then actually browse a catalog. I'm lazy and like to find my stuff the easiest way. Even when I order from my local welding supply I bring in a sheet with full item info/part numbers. Get familiar with their wide variety of fittings and you will figure out Many Useful Things to do with them.turbocad6:That's pretty slick putting the regs after the solenoid valve on the power supply.Last edited by farmall; 03-01-2011 at 06:30 PM.
Reply:Sounds like a good use for the pressure regulator that lincoln supplied with my tig.  I replaced it with a real flowmeter, I'll save it for back purging."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:I like to keep things simple.One flowmeter on one bottle of argon, hooked to my tig machine.Second flowmeter on a second bottle of argon, used for purge.If you've only got one bottle for argon, what the heck do you do when you run out at 11:30 on Saturday morning?Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII like to keep things simple.One flowmeter on one bottle of argon, hooked to my tig machine.Second flowmeter on a second bottle of argon, used for purge.If you've only got one bottle for argon, what the heck do you do when you run out at 11:30 on Saturday morning?
Reply:The regs on a tee setup is also useful for scratch-start work. When our pipewelding students TIG outdoors they just take their tee/regs/rig/purge hose and one cylinder of argon on a single-cylinder cart.
Reply:Dia,I really don't know.With 4 330's and 2 125's of argon, I can honestly say I've never run out on a weekend.  I guess if I did, I could run over my machinist/welder buddy's shop and grab one of his 4 330's.In marine fabrication/repair, weekends are when all the boatowners are in town.  This is true generally from May-Sept.When an owner finds something broke on his boat, especially something that prevents use, you wouldn't believe what they will offer to get it fixed right now.I almost always go by the shop late on Sunday evenings.  You wouldn't believe some of the stuff they drop off to be repaired.  I just move it inside.  Sometimes they'll attach a note and sometimes they just call on Monday.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDia,...I almost always go by the shop late on Sunday evenings.  You wouldn't believe some of the stuff they drop off to be repaired.  I just move it inside.  Sometimes they'll attach a note and sometimes they just call on Monday.
Reply:Donoharm,LOLGuess I'm pretty lucky in the sense that there's not much competition in my area for the type work I do.  We have a large fab shop about 10 miles up the road (a good friend of mine owns it) but they really don't cater to the one-off type projects.  In fact, I get quite a few referrals from them.I think maybe that the local marinas have come to accept that I don't gouge the customer and that the fastest way "not to get the work done" is to try to hassle about the price.I have enough work from customers that ask, "Can you do it?" that I don't have to deal with a lot of the "How much is it going to cost?" guys.Might not always be that way, but then again, I'm not sure how much longer I'll want to do this type work.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Here is my custom dual outlet flowmeter, before and the conversion.  Its an HTP.  I added an extra outlet needle valve assembly using a 1/4" NPT Tee fitting. Attached Images
Reply:How can u tell the flow when both sides are flowing? that thing will only waste gas ,it's practicly useless as a simple T + a valve on the hose would have given the same(bad) results.--------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymous
Reply:Originally Posted by DonoharmHow can u tell the flow when both sides are flowing? that thing will only waste gas ,it's practicly useless as a simple T + a valve on the hose would have given the same(bad) results.
Reply:As long as I'm not paying for the gas , sure it works....--------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymous
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIIIf you've only got one bottle for argon, what the heck do you do when you run out at 11:30 on Saturday morning?
Reply:Just an FYI.  The Smith dual outlet flow meter can be had for about $160 (online).  While that isn't cheap, my LWS wants something like $100+ for a name-brand single.  You can cobble together something that might work (how do you know which way the gas is flowing when you dial in say 20cfh on the meter - is that 5 to the torch and 15 backpurge or the other way around?) or just spend the money once and never look back.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9Just an FYI.  The Smith dual outlet flow meter can be had for about $160 (online).  While that isn't cheap, my LWS wants something like $100+ for a name-brand single.  You can cobble together something that might work (how do you know which way the gas is flowing when you dial in say 20cfh on the meter - is that 5 to the torch and 15 backpurge or the other way around?) or just spend the money once and never look back.
Reply:I kinda wondered how you control the TWO different draws.........one being a smaller hose than the other I would think the larger one would dictate the flow at the ball gauge........I'm sure it works since you have been using it for years just seems to me that your using A LOT more Argon than necessary.....I'm not a scientist so I'm probably wrong......But that's why I have a separate bottle for purge gas.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:you ever notice that when you first hit the pedal it sounds like a huge rush of gas comes out your torch?  that's because your supply hose is building pressure while the gas solenoid is closed......And the hose is too long and has a larger ID than your torch line......Most supply hoses are 1/4 to 3/8......I just went to an 1/8"  ID hose and eliminated  that pressure build up......Just wonder how much Argon I wasted over the years......  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:I hear people complaining all the time over wasting argon when the truth is the biggest waste probably comes from excessive postflows and high flow rates.  Running a t-fitting is setup right really wont increase excessive Ar consumption, at least no where near as much as the other factors mentioned.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Yeah like I said if it works don't fix it, cool set-up  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by DonoharmHow can u tell the flow when both sides are flowing?
Reply:sorry I'm not a savant, didn't master the "addition" and "subtraction"...--------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymousafter setting up & playing with & using my setup I can say that I think your not going to really be that accurate with your math, once you open the second valve the flow through the first changes because your relieving some pressure, so what the one flowed with the second closed will change when you do open the second one... only way to really know easily is with a gauge on each feed... they react to each other like a see-saw.... I can kinda know how fast I'm going when I'm driving & kinda know how much fuel I have left in my car by judging the last time I added fuel & the distance I traveled, but I still welcome having gauges in my dash that remove the memory & figuring & guessing from the equation heres a picture of my setup... basically the 2 flow valves are after the solenoid in the welder... I set it up & calibrate it by opening the torch valve fully & opening the 2 regs for torch & purge fully, then set max flow on the main reg at the tank... I set the reg at the tank to what I'd consider maximum flow or even above that,... it don't matter because in use I can still control total flow with the 2 regs that are after the solenoid anyway at that point the gauge at the tank is only a reference for total flow... I then set the torch flow & the purge flow at the dual reg.... then it's set.... for example 15cfh torch, 5cfh purge...to use it I pick up the torch, turn the gas valve on the torch off, then stab the pedal.... the purge will jump up to flow closer to the full 20cfh because I turned the torch flow off at the torch & this forces more flow to the purge... if the post flow times out & i need more purge I stab the pedal again.... when I think the purge is complete I open the torch valve on the torch which reduces the purge flow & then weld.... in this way I can not forget to ever turn the purge off  because it's automatic & the gauges are real easy to use by seeing total flow & flow to each.... it's a little tricky to calibrate & balance  but once it is set it's so easy to use....   Last edited by turbocad6; 03-10-2011 at 11:32 PM.miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocad6after setting up & playing with & using my setup I can say that I think your not going to really be that accurate with your math, once you open the second valve the flow through the first changes because your relieving some pressure, so what the one flowed with the second closed will change when you do open the second one... only way to really know easily is with a gauge on each feed... they react to each other like a see-saw....
Reply:maybe it's because there after the valve in the welder?  the way they are, after the valve, they definitely affect each other, that's how closing the torch valve causes the back purge flow to increase... maybe it's because theres a second regulator on the inlet of the dual regulator too? it was originally designed to mount straight to a 2,500psi tank, now it's being fed from after the first regulator at the tank so it's being fed much less inlet pressure... but it doesn't seem to be a problem because I can def dial more than enough flow, doesn't seem to be a restriction in that sense I guess... I thought of removing the second pressure regulator at the dual gauge but didn't see any reason toI'm going to try your 1 2 3 test & see what it doesmiller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:turbocad6,  can you please post your pictures again because I cannot see them?  Also, guys I just decided to go with a good dual flow argon regulator for now.  What do you all recommend as best value out there?  (Don't have a lot of cash atm..)
Reply:Old post but still relevant.I still use separate regulators/flowmeters for my tig and backpurge gasses, mounted on separate argon bottles, but, there's no reason the same setup wouldn't work with the Western T on a single bottle.The biggest change (for convenience) that I've made over the last year or so is how I set up my backpurge system.I've always been a fan of the Smith 32-30-580 Selec-O-Gas Regulator/Flowmeter.  Since I use the H1240 Selec-O-Gas flowmeter on my Thermco mixer, a change to my system made sense.For my backpurge system, I removed the H1240 flowmeter from the regulator portion of the Smith 32-30-580 and in it's place I installed my feed line to the remote flowmeter.  Took an old dial indicator magnetic base and built a bracket to mount the flowmeter.  The regulator delivers the gas to the flowmeter at 30 PSI.  This way, I have my flowmeter, right at the part being welded and the backpurge gas is controlled right at the welding area, rather than having to walk across the shop and adjust my backpurge flow.Western makes an adapter that screws (male end) right into the regulator and accepts (female) the standard gas hose connector.With this setup, I can sit right at the workbench and control my backpurge flow.  Generally start with a high flow to purge the part and then just reach over and turn it down to maintain a minimal flow.  Not having to walk back to the bottles for every adjustment is nice.  With the magnetic base, I can position the actual flowmeter wherever it's convenient.The older I get, the easier I try to make things.PS.  Actually, with the setup I described, you could also just use a standard inert gas regulator (set delivery pressure at 30 PSI) and use the H1240 flowmeter at the workpiece.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:The older I get the more ways I try to come up with NOT  taking most jobs in.....lol  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:What do you guys think about the Smith  33-50-580 Dual Flow Argon Regulator?  I'm thinking of buying it because the price is right... Is it fine for my use on car fabrication work?
Reply:I use one. Works great for my purposes. I have one side run to a manifold.
Reply:hey meathead, just seen your request, don't know what happened to my pictures here but I put up a few in this thread: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=124641it's the same dual reg that zank just posted above and they do work great, there is no loss on one feed as the other is opened and it works as well as 2 independant bottles. I built a manifold type setup similar to you zank but I used valves on each feedmiller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Just so anyone else who might be considering this knows, the Y Western #411 will require several additional fittings to make work with just about anything else.  I got this thinking that it would screw into the argon bottle and then I could screw 2 regs to it or something along those lines and it is not like that.  I am going to have to find several other adapter fittings to go along with the Y fitting in order to make it work.  Would be nice if someone made that fitting where you could just screw in two standard regulators into it.
Reply:I will take some pix of the rig I use at work, basicaly a piece of 3" sanitary about 8" long with 2 flowmeters on it. No pressure problems, it acts as an expansion chamber.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."