Massive 6011 Sticking Issues

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I'm assuming this is 100% operator error. I can't even get an arc started with my 6011 rods. Not even a bit, I just stick it every time!  Then, after a couple or three times the rod is toast, so I have to toss a brand new rod. I'm getting frustrated and sick of wasting money. I don't know what I'm doing wrong!  I have almost zero issues sticking 6013 and 7018, but I know those are totally different animals. For what it's worth, I have tried 1/8" and 3/32". I've tried them on DCEP and AC. I've tried them low, middle, and high in their amp ranges. I've burnt 3 lbs of rods and made less than 1" of bead. Yes. One inch. I'm getting pissed because I know I'm missing something stupid and small. Ideas?
Reply:Wow!  That does sound frustrating.  Since you weld fine with the other rods - have you considered you may have crappy 6011 rods?  Long shot, but if you can switch back to 7018 and it works, then imediately the 6011 won't work....then it's the rods right?By the way, what machine are you running?
Reply:Thanks Dave. I'm running a Lincoln AC/DC 225/125. I'm not perfect by any means with the other two common rods, but I don't stick them and with the help of the pros here and on other forums, I'm getting better. I considered the crappy rods angle. I had originally bought a small pack of Lincoln Electric 1/8" 6011 rods at walmart just to play until I could get to the welding shop.  Stuck every one. Then I picked up a couple pounds of rod at Farm and Fleet. Hobart brand. Still sticking. That's why I'm pretty positive it's operator error.
Reply:Are you tapping or scratching to start?  Scratching is a lot easier for me though a bit sloppier.    When I was just starting back, I cheated real bad.  I'd start at one end of a coupon by laying the side of the electrode against the coupon edge, so the electrode was a couple inches past the coupon surface.  I'd drop my hood and basically pull up on the rod till the tip was touching the coupon and I'd see the arc, and I'd keep lifting off to a medium arc, adjust and start welding.  That might help a bit.I will say this, in my original classes we started with 6011 and I remember having a bear of a time sticking rods.  Try scratch starting with no power on and your hood up (NO power on) to get the feel, don;t give up.  Keep practicing, it will come.
Reply:oh, and one other thing that helps me.  Somtimes I use my off hand to steady the rod and hold it an inch or so from the metal before dropping my hood.  Helps with feeling my way through the darkness since my hood is not auto darkening.
Reply:I find whenever I am sticking like that, turning up the amps seems to be a cure all.Montgomery Ward Powr Kraft AC-DC 230/140
Reply:I would check for grounding issues. clean attachment to metal, and no loose connections.
Reply:Originally Posted by RodJoh, and one other thing that helps me.  Sometimes I use my off hand to steady the rod and hold it an inch or so from the metal before dropping my hood.  Helps with feeling my way through the darkness since my hood is not auto darkening.
Reply:Originally Posted by tinyI find whenever I am sticking like that, turning up the amps seems to be a cure all.
Reply:Just keep turning up the amps until you get easy starts 6010/6011 likes to run hot you should be up near hte 100 amp range to run 1/8"
Reply:Thanks for the advice guys. We have a lot of outside lawn work to do tomorrow, so I don't know if I'll get to practice any or not. I will report back here though, so check back. Thanks so much every one that has responded so far. This place rocks!
Reply:Also, I'm scratch starting, I think. Kind of a tap n scratch number. I'll try to see exactly what I'm doing when I practice again. A little off topic, but anyone else notice welding is very zen-like?  I guess wanting to throw your welder because you're sticking rods isn't very zen-ish, but otherwise.
Reply:There's yer prollem right there. Buddha-head-itis. No zen ever got it fer me. Repent, and drag-scratch them 6011's!!  When the arc makes a go of it, pull away and long-arc to warm up the puddle, then rock & roll.Drag and scratch, turn the power up first, get it up to 120 on a 1/8" rod.If you peck at it, you will stick. Yes, that's my final answer.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Try wiping it with a wet rag, cellulose electrodes moisture in their flux coating
Reply:Tangle, how will you ever find the path to true enlightenment like that?  Hahaha.  I was meaning the when I weld I'm so intent on learning and paying attention to what I'm doing that I don't think about anything else. It's nice in a house with five kids, a wife, and a dog to only think about that little puddle. However.......if I don't stop sticking 6011, I'm going to hit my welder with a hammer.  I will try turning up the amps and wiping with a wet rag and see what happens. With these rods that the end is missing flux about an inch or the end is charred an inch or so from repeated stickings, is there anything I can do to salvage some of them?
Reply:Zen like is not a bad way to put it.  Hours tick off when I weld untill someone tells me to stop.Interesting to note:  I've taught kids with ADHD problems and when they weld - all is quiet
Reply:I second the higher amps - the arc seems to jump a sooner as the rod end gets close.Tanglediver is right that it's more of a drag than a scratch.If I hold the stinger in my right hand, I point the rod a few inches to the left of where I want to strike the arc.  The rod is at an exaggerated drag angle (about 30 deg) to the left of where I want to start welding, and a couple inches above the coupon.I steady the rod with my left hand a tad, so it doesn't move, nod / helmet down, then twist my wrist to bring the electrode tip swinging down toward the metal and simultaneously add a little pull/drag with my whole arm.  The rod flux is dragging slightly and it lights right up.  The short dragging keeps it from sticking.Pull up slightly to legnthen the arc, now I have some light to figure out where the hell I am on the coupon   (because I suck), use the long arc like a lantern and wander around in the semi-dark like Moses wandering in the wilderness  to find my starting place, then heat up my spot, shorten the arc and off to the races. It will come.On the flux burned away, I just scratch and start, but I wouldn't do that for a weld that mattered.  Practice, who cares.
Reply:I happen to have an AC version of your welder that I let people practice with - so I just went out and fired it up on 6011 1/8" to watch what I do more closely.  (I usualy run a DC welder)The 75 amp tap was the lowest the rods liked, had to bounce it pretty hard to light the rod without sticking if I used the tap method.  Welded good at that setting though.The 90, 100, 115 amp taps (all AC on mine) started and welded much easier.  115 amps was a very hot arc. A hard quick scratch start was easier - but I use the tap method more often.  Tap quick and hard.
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverDrag and scratch, turn the power up first, get it up to 120 on a 1/8" rod.If you peck at it, you will stick.
Reply:Well, success, kind of. I need LOTS of practice. I hate sucking this badly. Why aren't my beads shiny?  I wire brushed the hell out of them and nothing came off. They are 1/8" 6011 Reverse polarity at 115 amps. Hobart brand electrodes. I used a hard tap on these. I also ran some 3/32 at about 60 amps that I hung it over the edge of the coupon first. Tapping needed to be harder.Last edited by Brian.Evans; 06-14-2012 at 04:41 PM.
Reply:Please don't hate me  but you stink, just keep practicing. Its an art and with practice you'll get it. I stink at a lot of things too, like honest opinions. I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:It hasn't been mentioned yet but once you start sticking rods there is a tendency to become "scratch shy" - like being "gun shy". Trying to sneak up on the arc is a perfect formula for sticking.My solution is to think about the match start idea mentioned by others. You'd never barely touch a match head to the sandpaper to start it and then leave it there. The move is to firmly scratch and lift up to long arc the rod. Then let the arc settle back onto the coupon.When you get tired of ruining rods try putting a piece of metal coat-hanger in the stinger and try to start an arc with that. You will be an expert in no time...well maybe a few hangers later.
Reply:Ok Mike. I know I stink. Now, why do I stink?  Tell me so I don't keep practicing incorrectly.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brian.EvansOk Mike. I know I stink. Now, why do I stink?  Tell me so I don't keep practicing incorrectly.
Reply:Thanks Mike. I'll keep at it.  I enjoy it, even though I suck. I guess I'll go buy 25 lbs of 6011 and $50 of steel coupons and BURN IT!Originally Posted by Brian.EvansWhy aren't my beads shiny?  I wire brushed the hell out of them and nothing came off. They are 1/8" 6011 Reverse polarity at 115 amps. Hobart brand electrodes. I used a hard tap on these. I also ran some 3/32 at about 60 amps that I hung it over the edge of the coupon first. Tapping needed to be harder.
Reply:Try some 6010 rods on DC and skip the 6011. Are you in Illinois ?  I'll give you some to try.Try taking the rod in hand and drag it along a file. The coating could be the initial problem
Reply:6011 is dumb dumb rod, turn up the heat and burn it in thereDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:BD, I am in IL. About 8 miles south of Champaign-Urbana in a little town called Tolono.  I really appreciate it. My email is [email protected]. What makes 6010 better than 6011?
Reply:It could also be ground issues.  Extreme sticking problems are almost always the result of insufficient amps.  Be sure the ground clamp has good contact with the metal.  I always briefly buff it with the wire brush on the angle grinder (or electric drill).  And be sure it's not too far from the welding site. There's a weak link in your electricity chain somewhere.-RuarkLincoln 3200HDHobart Stickmate LX235TWECO Fabricator 211i
Reply:Ruark, it was a combination of my suckage and low amps. Mostly my suckage.  I have at least ran a bead now. I'm hopefully going to go to my LWS tomorrow and grab a big pack of electrodes and then BURN THEM ALL.  And then get more.