Radius Railings!!

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so i got a job, some radius railings, i have no iade what the actual radius is, but heres a picture of the deck theyre goin on:and theres another deck on the other side of the house with a tighter radiusso after thinking for a while, i decided to take a piece plywood, and trace the curve of the deck, and then i measured back 6" which is the center of the posts, and moved the line over,to get the length of each panel, i tacked nails in the deck in line with the posts, then wrapped my tape measure around the radius... don't know if maybe theres a better way to do that, maybe a cloth tape measure?so i marked out the curves, and cut them out with a jigsaw, made a couple of braces,then I wrapped a piece of Masonite around the form, using the Masonite to square it...then the fun began!!!  All the bending!! i bought a Chinese one just cuz it would work for this job, nothing to heavy to bend..i started bending all the channel:the channel bent fine, all ihad to do was make sure that it was bending inbetween the punched holes otherwise it crushed the holes,however, when i tried to bend the caprail.... i was disappointed lol. i was racking my brain trying to figure out how to do it , and then i remembered that i had a hydraulic pipe bender of the HF variety.  but it wouldn't work with the tubing dies that were in it, so i had to make some "dies" for it, to stop the caprail from flipping over: http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:heres the second form, the tighter radius:this is how the cap rail bent up, it was easy with the hydraulic bender and the compact.heres the channel getting bent:and heres the panel welded together with the cap rail clamped on http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:heres a pic of the first radius done:and the second:and heres the stack of radius stuff:it took me about 6 days to do the radius panels, its 54 linear feet, theres another deck down below that gets straight railings, and i made 55 linear feet in 5 hours, lol. it was nice to work on som easy stuff after all the radius'. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:so now, i sent the railings to get galvanized, when i get them back, painting and then install!!so i'll post pics when i get them back...any comments or advice?? I've never done radius panels before, it was a learning experience for me http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:How much would you charge for a job like that?Millermatic 211PowerPlasma 50s
Reply:for a radius like that, $75-100 per foot, depending on conditions, for a tighter radius would be much more. this job took me a little longer than i expected but i still charged enough for it. if i did it again would only take me half the time. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:MetalMan, would have never thought that bender could have made those bends so nicely!  Really nice work!  Best  Bob
Reply:Looks really good.  looking forward to the final product.  Is the clamp on you compact bender for marking the radius.
Reply:Excellent work Well done
Reply:The curve in the top railing didn't try to straighten itself out as you welded the stiles?  Very nice job.  Did I understand correctly that you were going to galvanize the whole unit and then paint over the galvanize?Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:wow it would have been almost 3 times that price hereVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by rhuntMetalMan, would have never thought that bender could have made those bends so nicely!  Really nice work!  Best  Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by Dualiewow it would have been almost 3 times that price here
Reply:I know in the shop I worked at we had an eagle radius bender/roller. I imagine it would have saved you a ton of time making those radius bends, although I'm not sure if it would have been complicated bending channel. Very nice job though. How did you punch the holes in the channel for the pickets?
Reply:Originally Posted by Dualiewow it would have been almost 3 times that price here
Reply:When my father in laws shop was open he never made less than 1000.00 a day. Me and im and a few other employees welded up app the railing for the garage building for the v.a. hospital in biloxi,  my father in law charged 300,000 for the job. We welded and painted it all in 2 weeks, and then took 2 weeks to install it. A few weeks before that did several thousand feet of rail for a church and charged 90,000 on that. Of course the money went to his head
Reply:I buy the channel pre-punched from kings metals, its easier for me that way http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Yea but then if you want a different spacing you probley can't get it. I know my father in law had a mechanical punch press I guess he used to punch in aluminum channel. Not sure if its the same for steel. I've looked in my kings book once or twice at the pre punched channel and I can't remember but I thought it was a lot more that just buying the channel locally, and you have to pay shipping on top of that
Reply:I helped a friend with an iron fence project he used an ironworker to punch the holes.  We made a piece to set the last hole punched on to keep the spacing consistent.  It took 3 guys a day to to punch about 1800ft of channel.  It was a lot cheaper than buying pre-punched.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:I used to make hundreds of feet of steel railing. Over 20 years we probably did 5 miles of it.  For some reason and I do not know why we always used flat bar bottom and top.  Usually 3/16  by 1 and a half.. In all those years I never made any railing with channel.  Some of it we made with out a cap rail. Is channel generaly used now?  Mac
Reply:The rates the rate,  In my shop the overhead is 10K a month before i see profit dollar 1.    I have to price jobs accordingly.as far as punching the top and bottom rail a 30 ton single end punch will knock miles of it out in one day.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by Dualiewow it would have been almost 3 times that price here
Reply:I hope the radius does not change after coming back from the galvanizer.  I have seen it with very large structural  tubing.  There is a formula for finding the radius of a curve given the length of chord and chordal height.  it is really handy when you get a pile of rolled pieces all mixed up after coming back from the rolling shop.http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/rad2.cgi?submit=Entry
Reply:Looks Great! Have you ever checked out colorzinq? V&S Galvanizing does it in the Taunton, Ma location. It's pretty awesome, definitely looks closer to powder coating than automotive paint but they claim they can match any color. Also as far as radiuses go, my girlfriend got me the Pipefitters Handbook and its got awesome charts to help figure stuff out.Quality craftsmanship in the shop or in the field...
Reply:I can't do custom spacing, but it hasn't been a big deal for me so far, I've done over 300' of fence/rails in the last couple of months. As far as the price goes, I think i after I figure my time to go and punch it, then straightening after its punched, travel time (cuz the only guy I know with an ironworker is about 45 minutes away)  its pretty much the same as buying it prepunched.... http://www.philswelding.comDoes anyone have a cheep way or a homemade punch press for punching channel mabey in aluminum?
Reply:Originally Posted by RIRandyLooks Great! Have you ever checked out colorzinq? V&S Galvanizing does it in the Taunton, Ma location. It's pretty awesome, definitely looks closer to powder coating than automotive paint but they claim they can match any color. Also as far as radiuses go, my girlfriend got me the Pipefitters Handbook and its got awesome charts to help figure stuff out.
Reply:Railings Look great!  They really do.    I just built a set of Spiral Stairs,  I had them Galvanized.  The Galvanizing company told me NOT to paint them for 7-9 months, because thats the length of time it takes the galvanizing to fully cure.......Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:This is a link the company's website gives you a nice little overview http://www.hotdipgalvanizing.com/hot...colorzinq.htmlAlso How long have you been running your business? and How are you holding up in this economy? I'm not far away in Rhode Island with mine...Quality craftsmanship in the shop or in the field...
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Railings Look great!  They really do.    I just built a set of Spiral Stairs,  I had them Galvanized.  The Galvanizing company told me NOT to paint them for 7-9 months, because thats the length of time it takes the galvanizing to fully cure.......
Reply:Finished them!!!! Came out looking awesome!!! Install went really well, had a few issues with the columns being out of level but I just tweaked them till it fit...Here's some pics!!! http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Here's the deck on the other side: http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Very nice work..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Superb looking job!Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:Nice job &the proper way to layout and fab it. Be on the lookout for a Bateman ironworker , the handrail builders tool punches and shears all handrail material. Way without template is a 4 ft level & measure at 2 ft offsets the entire length. We build bridges with a tape and a piece of string and a few squares, thats all you need.
Reply:That looks real nice.  I really the way the straight end lead into the bend.  on the topic of bateman/rogers/lehman ironworkers.  They are fast, however the heart is the die plates and dies.  You could set the plates in a h frame press and make your own punch/ironworker.  Not much tonnage is required to punch 1/8" material.   I have done this with my tubing notcher and 10000 psi air hydraulic ram.
Reply:Beautiful!I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Friggin' awesome. Just wonderin' how you figured out how much to side-bend the cap in the hyd. bender. Did you have to do it incrementaly and just keep checking it against the template?
Reply:Look Great!Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by SMC WeldcraftFriggin' awesome. Just wonderin' how you figured out how much to side-bend the cap in the hyd. bender. Did you have to do it incrementaly and just keep checking it against the template?
Reply:Originally Posted by PavinsteelmanNice job &the proper way to layout and fab it. Be on the lookout for a Bateman ironworker , the handrail builders tool punches and shears all handrail material. Way without template is a 4 ft level & measure at 2 ft offsets the entire length. We build bridges with a tape and a piece of string and a few squares, thats all you need.
Reply:lets see if this posts right or not.The arc is the radius you want to try and duplicate. Draw a straight line between the two ends. Then draw perpendicular lines from this "base line" with a square, until they intersect the arc. Note the vertical distance off the base line. You draw these verticals at regular intervals. The more intervals, the closer to the actual arc you get. do only 3 or 4 verticals and just like when you bump bent the rails, you'd get a very "angular" curve. Do say 10 lines instead, and the curve gets more "round".Transfer all these measurements to your work surface, then simply connect the dots with straight lines. Same exact idea you used to bend the rails you just did, only with math rather than a template.Make sense?.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ahh.... makes perfect sense, thanks again DSW, can't believe I never thought of that, lol. I'll try to use that method next time I have to do something with s radius... http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWVery nice work.
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalMan23Thnx for the compliments, I'm still relatively new to this trade, still learning a lot from every job. I'm a little crazy when it comes to doin my jobs, im obsessed with making sure everything is as close to perfect as possible, if I'm not happy with something even though my eye is more trained than the customers, I won't stop unless its perfect( or close to it) its nice to see that all that effort isn't wasted, and somebody can appreciate it... lol