How to become certified

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This is probably a dumb question but I can not find the information I need.I have been a Maintenance Man for past twenty years and have been the welder. My new job requires me to be certified and I want to know what I need to do to become certified in Kansas City.We work on Modular Work Spaces and Containers. Most of the welding is welding axles and repairing damaged containers. I'm 43 years old and have been welding since i have been 14. So i am hoping I could just take a skills test and not have to take year long college coarse.Any help would be appreciated.
Reply:What process do you use. How thick of material, and what alloy.I can give you some leads if you can give some more info.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:1/8'' to 1/4 mild steel, stick welded.We just got the containers and I will have to replace damaged panels, 12 to 14 gauge. I was ordering a Mig for that but headquarters put a stop on it.
Reply:Hello jhnarial, your certification issue is completely dependant upon the code(s) that apply. Long story short, there are certifications that are governed under AWS, there are others that are governed by ASME, there are some that fall under API, still others come under ABS, etc. You need to determine which specific one(s) you will be working under and then determine which specific test applies. This should be information that your employer can provide you with. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Thank you AllenIs there a site I can get more familiar with all of this?
Reply:Hello again jhnarial, if you can find out from your employer which code will be applied it is likely that you can get some answers as to what test would satisfy and hence "certify" you for working on those containers and modular work spaces. If I were to take an educated guess I would say that AWS or a similar code would be the one with jurisdiction. You mentioned Kansas City, Portland, Ore. is not too far from me and they require a Portland City Card to be able to weld on structural applications in the cities jurisdiction. I am guessing that Kansas City may have a similar type requirement and this may be the entity with jurisdiction or the requirement for certfication that your employer is speaking of. If all else fails, call one of the local weld testing/inspection companies, explain your question and they can possibly clarify which specific code and test that is required. I believe I would still approach your employer to have them provide you with the necessary information. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Thanks again AllenThat's what I need to find is the testing/inspection companies. I just do not know how to google it I guessThanks for the help
Reply:Originally Posted by jhnarialMy new job requires me to be certified ...
Reply:Fill you mouth with marbles. Every time you make a bitchin weld you get to spit out a marble. When you've lost all your marbles you're ready to take you test.I lost all my marbles a long time ago but i never certified.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Weld schools generally offer certification, but as has been said before it really depends on what cert you need for the application just going to a testing facility and asking to get certified isn't going to do much good unless you can tell them what test you need to take and what code you need to adhere to.
Reply:Thanks everyone I will take the info you have given to me and pass it on to my employer and see what they have to say
Reply:Certification is an often misunderstood and misused term and one that lots of companies/employers know absolutely nothing about.  I have heard so many managers go on and on about how they have so and so who is a "certified welder", my question is always, certified in what?, to which I get the blank stare.  As some of the above replies stated, it's up to the employer to decide whether you need to be certified and to which standards, which they often times do not know.  In my personal experience, all a certification will get you is maybe an interview, then you still have to pass a job specific test.  I currently have 68 different certifications and I currently only am required to have 4 of them for the job I am currently on.  I really think certificates are only good for 2 things-----getting you an interview...........and wiping your A$$ with.  In my opinion, experience is far more valuable than a certificate--just my 2 cents--Matt6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of Welpers
Reply:Originally Posted by ExpatWelderCertification is an often misunderstood and misused term and one that lots of companies/employers know absolutely nothing about.  I have heard so many managers go on and on about how they have so and so who is a "certified welder", my question is always, certified in what?, to which I get the blank stareMatt
Reply:Tell them you're 'WeldingWeb Certified', but you'll get whatever they want, as long as they pay for it.
Reply:You can do it yourself in your shop under your supervisor's eyes.Shear 20 to 30 test coupon halves. Size 3" x 6" x 1//8" thick. Draw on paper the joint configuration for a groove weld 6" long, full penetration with or without backing. Write down on the backside all of your machine settings and filler grade. Weld the weld and make sure it is full penetration, no undercut or suckback or pinholes or porosity. After a few practice pieces, run the weld. If it sucks, do another. Grind top and bottom to see if the weld is clean.Keep doing them until you feel good about one. Send it off to Accurate Weld Testing Lab5451 Business Dr.Huntington Beach, CA, 92649  Attn: Ronald Mobley,Phone (714)373-3852Ask for plate to be tested welder performance test in accordance with AWSD17.1 and Mil-STD-1595A. You must supply the following information. Material type (ASTM A-36 steel), Process(STICK?), Name and ID#, Position(Flat), and current(DC?).This is Ron's most popular test. You can call in advance for pricing, but it is usually some $100. If you pass, you will be certified to weld this process in the shop you produced the test plates in, and in a  range of 3/32"thick to 1/2" for sheet groove, sheet fillet, tube groove, and tube fillet per AWS D17.1.That should make your shop happy.Last edited by shovelon; 11-01-2011 at 07:15 PM.Reason: spelinWeld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thank you very Much That is what I needed
Reply:You might also write or compile a summary of all the kinds of welding you do on your job, then take it to your local welding school and ask what certification would cover them.
Reply:Originally Posted by jhnarialSo I go in today and ask them to get some info for me, what welding codes are required for this job and exactly what do you want me to get certified for also where can I take the skills test and who is going to pay for it.This is what I get. How am I'm suppose to know So what I'm thinking is just take the most basic certification.... I can throw them the card and hold out my cup because I don't dance for free.Seeing that I have been welding axles on for this company for the past 4 years and these trailers have traveled hundreds of miles with out any failures.... is certified where I come from.This is just some dude that has never been in the field trying to wave his authority around. It was funny today we had to beef up a I beam and they asked me to weld it and I refused and it cost $3,000 to fix. I just need to know what the most basic test I can take something in position would be great and where in KCMO I can take it.
Reply:Originally Posted by jhnarialThank you very Much That is what I needed
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYou can do it yourself in your shop under your supervisor's eyes.Shear 20 to 30 test coupon halves. Size 3" x 6" x 1//8" thick. Draw on paper the joint configuration for a groove weld 6" long, full penetration with or without backing. Write down on the backside all of your machine settings and filler grade. Weld the weld and make sure it is full penetration, no undercut or suckback or pinholes or porosity. After a few practice pieces, run the weld. If it sucks, do another. Grind top and bottom to see if the weld is clean.Keep doing them until you feel good about one. Send it off to Accurate Weld Testing Lab5451 Business Dr.Huntington Beach, CA, 92649  Attn: Ronald Mobley,Phone (714)373-3852Ask for plate to be tested welder performance test in accordance with AWSD17.1 and Mil-STD-1595A. You must supply the following information. Material type (ASTM A-36 steel), Process(STICK?), Name and ID#, Position(Flat), and current(DC?).This is Ron's most popular test. You can call in advance for pricing, but it is usually some $100. If you pass, you will be certified to weld this process in the shop you produced the test plates in, and in a  range of 3/32"thick to 1/2" for sheet groove, sheet fillet, tube groove, and tube fillet per AWS D17.1.That should make your shop happy.
Reply:Originally Posted by 85cj7boyDisclaimer......I do not have a copy of AWS D17.1 nor have I read this specific code related to Aerospace Fusion Welding.  But having read AWS B2.1, D1.1, D1.3, and ASME BPVC Section IX I have never seen a code that will do a limited thickness welder qualification test for more than twice the thickness of the tested coupon.  Welder qualifications are to be done to a WPS which must be qualified or prequalified but it must be written down and used for the welder qualification.  Also if the welder qualification test is done in the 1G position then the welder will not be qualified for horizontal, vertical, or overhead.  I would assume all of these positions are used while working on the containers and trailers.  Also test coupons are to go through a visual inspection by a CWI before bend tests.  This usually includes a face and root inspection in which the weld bead reinforcement cannot exceed 1/8" above the surface of the plate, limitations on undercut etc.  Thus grinding the weld flat would disqualify the coupon.  I am only suggesting the simplest, cheapest way to produce a welder qualification to satisfy his boss. If his boss wants Class A, overhead position certified welder, he should hire one.It does not sound like the employer knows exactly what they want.  Being certified means the welder has exhibited the required skill to use predetermined machine settings and parameters to make a sound weld.  It does not mean that the welder has been trained to set up the parameters and machine settings for each application.  Your best bet is to find a local place that is a testing center to test you.  When you are done you should have a WPS that you performed the test to.  You should also have a Welder Qualification Certificate with a test report showing that the visual and two bend tests passed.  But if they simply want to say they have a "certified welder" working for them to make a customer happy and really don't care what the test is then you could go do a fillet weld break test to AWS D1.1 and be done with it. Certifications cost money and lots of money is wasted on tests when people do not know what they really need or they don't follow the right procedures.  If you are welding on axles it sounds like there could be liability involved if something goes wrong.  Your company probably needs to get a welding consultant in there to sort out the questions and issues.
Reply:Additionally, Accurate Weld Testing will probably elect to to a visual(fourescent penetrant inspection), and a radiograph(x-ray) as an option to bend and metaligraphic. Please request to have the coupon and radiograph film sent back to you to archive, as they are only required to keep them for a few years, then they are trash canned. You will need them to substantiate your qualification.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thanks for the info.I read everything I could find and watched every video. Where I'm at right now is....I will test for what ever they ask for and i put that on management today. I then asked who will pay for the testing and they were trying to put that on me. So my response was ... OK say I do and I pass I want to be compensated. I want to know for sure that I will be before I go pulling money out of my kids pockets. This is not for me.I have a funny feeling they looked everywhere for answers to back up their statements to me but came up empty handed. If I have to do, I want to know is it also mandatory for every other maintenance man that works for our company have to be certified.If not why does every branch have a welder in there shop?I do appreciate the help, thank you guys
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonPlease request to have the coupon and radiograph film sent back to you to archive, as they are only required to keep them for a few years, then they are trash canned. You will need them to substantiate your qualification.
Reply:Originally Posted by 85cj7boyDisclaimer......I do not have a copy of AWS D17.1 nor have I read this specific code related to Aerospace Fusion Welding.  But having read AWS B2.1, D1.1, D1.3, and ASME BPVC Section IX I have never seen a code that will do a limited thickness welder qualification test for more than twice the thickness of the tested coupon.  Welder qualifications are to be done to a WPS which must be qualified or prequalified but it must be written down and used for the welder qualification.  Also if the welder qualification test is done in the 1G position then the welder will not be qualified for horizontal, vertical, or overhead.  I would assume all of these positions are used while working on the containers and trailers.  Also test coupons are to go through a visual inspection by a CWI before bend tests.  This usually includes a face and root inspection in which the weld bead reinforcement cannot exceed 1/8" above the surface of the plate, limitations on undercut etc.  Thus grinding the weld flat would disqualify the coupon.  It does not sound like the employer knows exactly what they want.  Being certified means the welder has exhibited the required skill to use predetermined machine settings and parameters to make a sound weld.  It does not mean that the welder has been trained to set up the parameters and machine settings for each application.  Your best bet is to find a local place that is a testing center to test you.  When you are done you should have a WPS that you performed the test to.  You should also have a Welder Qualification Certificate with a test report showing that the visual and two bend tests passed.  But if they simply want to say they have a "certified welder" working for them to make a customer happy and really don't care what the test is then you could go do a fillet weld break test to AWS D1.1 and be done with it. Certifications cost money and lots of money is wasted on tests when people do not know what they really need or they don't follow the right procedures.  If you are welding on axles it sounds like there could be liability involved if something goes wrong.  Your company probably needs to get a welding consultant in there to sort out the questions and issues.Originally Posted by 85cj7boyFrom my searches Class C welding seems to deal with that Aerospace Fusion Code D17.1 that I do not have a copy of or have axcess to.  So I will not comment on the need for a WPS to test to If using that code.  Which seems somewhat unrelated to containers but thats ok.  Yes I was slightly off topic when I went into production requirements etc. but it was for further information to show the complexities in all of it so the OP can be informed.  Maybe it will help when the OP discusses certifications with their employer.In regards to Welder Performance Qualification I will refer to AWS B2.1 Specification for Welding Procedure and Performance Qualification.5.1 The purpose of welder qualification testing is to determine the ability of welders to produce a sound weld in the welding test positions....5.1.1 Qualification of welders and welding operators requires that a weldment shall be made according to a Standard Welding Procedure Specification (SWPS) or a qualified Welding Procedure Specification (WPS).  The weldment shall be prepared and tested in accordance with the requirements of this specification.In rereading AWS B2.1 2009 edition Table 5.7 Limitations for Performance Qualification in Plate Groove Welds for Test Weldment Thickness (T) or= 3/4" the Deposit Thickness (t) Max is Unlimited.  In both cases Fillet Weld Size is Unlimited.  If there is something I am missing please show me I like to learn.According to AWS B2.1 2009 Table 5.5 Position Limitations for Performance Tests a 1G test will qualify for Flat Groove on plate and Flat or Horizontal Fillets on Plate or Pipe over 24" in diameter (Footnote 1 in Table 5.7).  Only stating tube can be very misleading.  Pipe is divided into various diameter groups for qualifications because of the extreme changes in angle involved in welding small diameter pipe or tubing.  Cheapest tests you can do.  Buy a SWPS.  Do a 1F or 2F Fillet weld break test on 3/8 material with a 1/4" fillet weld.  Coupons should be 4 by 8 setup in an upside down T fashion.  Stop and restart in the middle.  Break the weld in a simple press so that the root is split open.  Testing requirements:  Visual inspection, break test, and macro etch of the end that was cut off.Again buy a SWPS and use it.  1G Groove weld test.  3/8" material at least 8" by 3" coupons for each side.  Testing requirements: Visual, Face and Root Bends.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonI see what you are getting at, . However you don't have to buy a SWPS, they are close to $200 for AWS members, at least that is out of my 2009 catalog. Nonmembers are close to $250. Besides you can write and qualify your own. I have written a few, and you are right in one regard, buying them is a lot easier but it is not cheap.It would be cheaper to buy the AWS D17.1 specification for less than $100. Follow the test criteria, and send the plates off for testing. Penetrant and radiograph are cheaper than having a lab cut, bend, and metaligraphy IMO.
Reply:I live in Liberty, Mo. which is just down the road from you. There used to be an Instructor (Stan Crider) at the BTC on Front St in KC that did the testing for Certification. The original SMAW class final test was the basic fillet vertical up 3/8 plate structural steel certification test. If you paid the extra $100 you got the paperwork to go with it. It was a 16 week class (2 days a week, 4 hr classes). I work at the Harley Plant in KC and for our Production welder tests, they will "qualify" a person, not "certify". This is all for tubing and sheet metal. I work in the Maintenance Dept and I weld Pipe, and Structural steel and everything in between, and after bringing up to my boss one day the fact that very few of us Maintenance guys are certified in my Dept, he waived his invisible magic wand and said "you are all now "Certified". I guess it comes down to Insurance and what they are willing to risk with liability. If I don't feel comfortable welding something I will say something and wait it out until a process is proven.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYou can do it yourself in your shop under your supervisor's eyes.Shear 20 to 30 test coupon halves. Size 3" x 6" x 1//8" thick. Draw on paper the joint configuration for a groove weld 6" long, full penetration with or without backing. Write down on the backside all of your machine settings and filler grade. Weld the weld and make sure it is full penetration, no undercut or suckback or pinholes or porosity. After a few practice pieces, run the weld. If it sucks, do another. Grind top and bottom to see if the weld is clean.Keep doing them until you feel good about one. Send it off to Accurate Weld Testing Lab5451 Business Dr.Huntington Beach, CA, 92649  Attn: Ronald Mobley,Phone (714)373-3852Ask for plate to be tested welder performance test in accordance with AWSD17.1 and Mil-STD-1595A. You must supply the following information. Material type (ASTM A-36 steel), Process(STICK?), Name and ID#, Position(Flat), and current(DC?).This is Ron's most popular test. You can call in advance for pricing, but it is usually some $100. If you pass, you will be certified to weld this process in the shop you produced the test plates in, and in a  range of 3/32"thick to 1/2" for sheet groove, sheet fillet, tube groove, and tube fillet per AWS D17.1.That should make your shop happy.