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EDIT: Meant to put this in the "Machines / Tools / Cutting Processes" Subforum...feel free to move it if desired.I get quite a few calls where the amount of welding involved is small, and there's 120V and 240V plugs just a few feet from where I've dragged 100' of my engine drive's 1/0 work and stinger leads in to. In the past I've occasionally carried my XMT 304 in there, but I'm getting tired of lugging that that beast around and am pretty much leaving it in the shop from here on out.I've been thinking of buying a light-duty welder for these smaller jobs -- something that would save labor time, hours on the Trailblazer, and my back. I hadn't looked at a recent Miller catalog until a few days ago, and had been thinking of getting something along the lines of the Maxstar 150 STH. However, when I opened the 2014 catalog to Multiprocess, the first thing I see is something called a Multimatic 200 which appears to be a basic but extremely lightweight MIG / TIG / stick machine. The idea of having the MIG option is something I really like - I'd probably keep a roll of .030 ER70S-6 wire in it.I've spent some time searching the ole interwebz for info on this machine, but what I'm finding is posts by hobbyists who've bought it. Most were writing glowing reports but had used it one or two times in the MIG process only. No offense to them intended, but I'd really like to hear from someone in the business who has some time with this machine using all processes. Tell me about the arc quality, how long you've had it, how it runs 7018 and 6010, how fast it runs out of breath at higher amperage, and any issues you see with using it in the way I'm describing. Specifically, how fast is it to switch between MIG and stick, are the connections built to withstand repeated switching around, etc. Any issues with reliability, etc would be very helpful for me to know.While I don't mind comparisons to other machines, please don't suggest any of the cheap all-in-one machines as I have no desire to own a machine made or sold by a company with questionable business practices and after-the-sale support.Thank you for your time.Last edited by tbone550; 06-09-2014 at 05:02 PM.
Reply:Tbone, as much as I'm a die hard Miller fan, you might want to look at the Tweeco/Thermal arc units like the TA 211.http://victortechnologies.com/Therma...SB_3-30-12.pdfThe Multimatic is only a 150 amp stick/ tig, making it the same as the Maxstar 150. The TA 211 is 200 amps in all processes. As much as I like Miller, I think I'd rather have an older Passport Plus for portable mig and keep the added output and known ability to run 6010 of my Maxstar 200, even though it would mean 2 machines. My guess is that Miller did the same thing they did with the Maxstar 150 and didn't optimize the Multimatic to run 6010. I'm guessing they made a conscious decision to keep the output on stick/tig to the same as the Maxstar 150 to keep costs down, and that's one of the big reasons why they chose to sacrifice the ability to run 6010 well with the Maxstar 150. I was a bit disappointed that Miller didn't choose to combine the Maxstar 200 and teh Passport when they made the Multimatic. I think they'd have had a better machine at the cost they are asking for these.The TA's have had a pretty good reputation with machines like the TA 185 and TA 186, so I wouldn't simply rule them out just because they weren't Miller/Lincoln's. I'd be looking hard at the TA 211 myself if I was looking for a machine like you are..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW, thanks for your reply. I've seen enough good reports on TA that I'm willing to consider their machines as well. My comments about what machines I'm not interested in were aimed at a couple of other companies that shall hopefully remain nameless in this thread.As backwards as this sounds, for this machine I'm willing to lose amperage to gain portability. My original goal was to get a lightweight dual-voltage machine that could run 1/8 7018 well at a decent duty cycle, with DC TIG capabilities built in. Then I realized that for another 10 or 20 pounds, I could add the MIG function which would be pretty well worth it for odd light duty sheet metal work.The TA machine you linked to seems like a good one, but at 57 pounds without a spool of wire in it, it's on the heavy side for what I want. I was actually not even considering the Maxstar 200 at 37 pounds. I'm looking for a machine that can be held in my left hand and balanced out by the cheeseburger and fries in my right hand! Looking a little more at the TA website, I came across the 201TS which also fits in my weight range at about 22 pounds for the machine itself. It's another stick / TIG machine like the Maxstar. Then there's also the Tweco 181i, a MIG / TIG / stick machine, but it looks like it only runs on 230V. Comments on either of these machines would be welcome, also.
Reply:Another minor thing I just thought of. The Multimatic uses the same 6 pin remotes the Maxstar 150 does vs the 14 pin ones the Maxstar 200 and Syncrowave do. I also believe the Multimatic 200 uses the same smaller Dinse connectors the Maxstar 150 uses, unlike the "bigger" Miller units. Something to keep in mind if you were thinking about using existing parts. I can't remember what you have.I can understand the need to go light weight. It's one of those balancing issues we often have to look at and make compromises. I am a bit surprised you want a super light weight machine. Doesn't that just make it easier for Sticky to make off with it?... .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAnother minor thing I just thought of. The Multimatic uses the same 6 pin remotes the Maxstar 150 does vs the 14 pin ones the Maxstar 200 and Syncrowave do. I also believe the Multimatic 200 uses the same smaller Dinse connectors the Maxstar 150 uses, unlike the "bigger" Miller units. Something to keep in mind if you were thinking about using existing parts. I can't remember what you have.I can understand the need to go light weight. It's one of those balancing issues we often have to look at and make compromises. I am a bit surprised you want a super light weight machine. Doesn't that just make it easier for Sticky to make off with it?...
Reply:I have both a Maxstar 150STH and a Thermal arc TA211. Both machines perform very well. You are right about the 211 being a little heavy to lug around, but it does a good job as a mig machine. I usually use the 150 STH if I need a tig machine and the portability. It sure can be nice to carry the welder over your shoulder a a bag with the leads and tools in your hand and still have a free hand. I have found that the duty cycle on these smaller machines is not usually a problem as the are being used for small jobs. Also have a CST280 which is fairly easy to carry around, wish i had bought a maxstar 200 instead of the CST280 but needed right away and that was what was on the shelf. The CST280 is nice and the extra power is nice but no gas solenoid is irritating. Just my 2 cents.Mike
Reply:I have a Maxstar 200 and a TA 181I that I use in situations like you described. If the welding is all stick I will use the Miller, mainly because it has a better duty cycle. The Maxstar and the TA are pretty close in weight , with the Maxstar being a little lighter. The TA runs 7018 and 6011 well, no 6010 which isn't an issue for me. The Mig function is very good even with Co2. The spoolgun works pretty good as well, mostly .o80 to 3-16 with mostly 4043 wire. To me the 115 input isn't important since I can get access to 230 volt easier than a high amp 115 circuit. I use a 10 gauge 100 foot cord on 230 volt to power either machine and it works well for me. I use a 10 pound Co2 with the TA and it is as easy to move as a suitcase feeder.Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:The Multimatic is expensive - its a few bucks more than the Passport was. Adds stick and TIG, removes internal gas bottle. Adds another internal gas solenoid.It is an excellent MIG machine. Probably one of the best - and as far as I know the best in its power range.However, it suffers the same as all the other 3n1 machines. Its OK for stick, but lift-arc DC only TIG is a bit limiting.So its a question of cost. Is the superior MIG capability really worth the extra bucks? In my case, I wanted portability and the asking price for a used Passport was pushing the sale price of the Multimatic. For a few bucks more I got a more capable machine. Its my go-to machine. Only if I need to TIG or do something heavier do I use any of the others. For me, the machine is MIG only! I have played with the stick welder but the Maxstar is just as easy to pull out.As a comparison to Thermal Arc.The 211 is significantly cheaper and has a reputation for being a better stick machine. I don't know personally. The 211 is made in China (the 252 is supposedly made in USA - or at least once was), the Miller is at least assembled in USA. The Miller has internal gas valves (I believe 2, one for MIG and one for TIG - there are two fittings on the back) - the smaller Thermal Arcs need a valve on the TIG torch. I assume it has one for the MIG internally. Miller comes with a Q-gun with center fire tips. For light use, I like them. A little bit of nozzle spray and they stay clean (well, not clogged) and I've never had any issues with shielding gun. If this is a day in, day out welder, I suspect the cost of the nozzles would add up. As I side note, I used to have a Miller 251 with M-20 gun. Really liked it. The Q-guns take time to get used to, but in the end I think they are better. - more consistent gas, stickout etc. and easy enough to clean.I can say that over 2 years or so, the Multimatic has been trouble free. I only have about 40 lbs of wire through it... Maybe a bit more (on my third roll)Note: very important, the weights listed are for empty machines. Add a spool, cables, regulator and the weight goes up.If your are looking for a basic stick machine, look elsewhere. Ditto for TIG. If you are looking for something that lays down a very very very nice looking bead right out of the box (autoset is nice - with tweaking capability) you really should try the multimatic.One thing I couldn't find is the performance of the machine on 110V (how much current they draw). I can say that I typically run off a 50ft, 12 gauge extension cord with 110V. 3/16" is no problem on 110.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9Note: very important, the weights listed are for empty machines. Add a spool, cables, regulator and the weight goes up.
Reply:Either of the Maxstars would run 3/32" 7018 off 110v power ( assuming 20 amp circuit.) I know my Maxstar 200 would run 1/8" 7018 at 125 amps off a 20 amp 110v circuit. Not sure if the Maxstar 150 would or wouldn't. Amp ratings on 110v power are higher for the Maxstar 200 vs the 150.If you are looking at just 110/220v stick/ tig units, The Esab 161LTS is supposed to be designed to run 6010. I haven't heard any bad things about them. I'm not sure they have remote capability however. Price is supposed to be quite good, almost in line with smaller machines like the TA 95S. If I waas looking strictly at 110/220v stick machines, I'd take a real hard look at one. Down side where I live is Esab isn't readily available, so I'd have to order online.http://www.esabna.com/us/en/products...Code=819&tab=2http://mam.esab.com/assets/1/BDBA5CC...et_Main-01.pdf.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW, now that you mention it, I remember hearing about that machine before. I assume its' 7018 performance doesn't suffer?
Reply:I'd guess so since 7018 is pretty much the "go to" rod. I can't see them making a unit that ran 7018 poorly.My guess is Esab went the opposite route Miller did when they did the Maxstar 150. Miller chose to optimize the Maxstar 150 for tig at the expense of 6010 performance. I looked but didn't see anything noting that the Esab was set up for a remote, so they probably went with better 6010 performance over tig functions. Since there really isn't a lot of small inverters that run 6010 well, especially in the lower price range, it makes a lot of sense. That gives them a niche market that no one else really fills in that price range..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550Darn right that's important! So what do you think the machine weighs in ready-to-run condition? Assuming a 10-lb spool. Is it 50 lbs? If so, that's getting heavy for what I want.
Reply:Hey con fuse9,Thanks for your additional reply. I still haven't made up my mind on what machine to spend the $$ on, but if you don't mind I have a couple more questions for you on the Multimatic. 1. I see that it has an auto-set feature on it. I'm not clear on how this works, but can you "turn it off"? In other words, can I dial in 120A for a 1/8 7018, or do I have to let the machine decide what setting to use? In the same way, can I manually set voltage and wire speed if I want to?2. Is there any arc force adjustment?3. Have you ever run a 6010 or 6011 rod with it? How did it run?Thanks for any additional insight you can give.
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550Hey con fuse9,Thanks for your additional reply. I still haven't made up my mind on what machine to spend the $$ on, but if you don't mind I have a couple more questions for you on the Multimatic. 1. I see that it has an auto-set feature on it. I'm not clear on how this works, but can you "turn it off"? In other words, can I dial in 120A for a 1/8 7018, or do I have to let the machine decide what setting to use? In the same way, can I manually set voltage and wire speed if I want to?
Reply:Thanks for your reply. The reason I've been asking stick questions on the Multimatic is because everybody and their brother uses this machine for MIG, and they all agree it's great. It's much harder to find references to its performance with stick electrodes, even though it's advertised as a multiprocess machine. I may have to find and crash a Miller demo day myself to get the skinny on this and their other small 110V / 220V welders.
Reply:I agree with the demo thing. I used 1 on stick and Mig, I would say MIG is equal to the 181 TA machine and stick being a little less than the TA, especially if you figure in the lower output on stick with the MIller. AS for comments on the Maxstar not being a good stick welder ,in my experience nothing could be further from the truth. My experience with any of the 115 volt welders [ maxstar 150 and 200, TA 95 and a few 115 volt MIG welders] is nothing but frustration. Trying to get access to a decent 20 amp circuit and the voltage drop with an extension cord is a PITA. Using small rods and the reduced duty cycle are pretty hard to get used to when a person is used to bigger machines.Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:I went down to my LWS yesturday and they had the Multimatic sitting in the showroom. Was talking to him about it and he said they have sold 1/wk for 3 weeks now. Every time he gets one it goes right out the door.That thing is smaller than my 12vs and really light, if I wasn't saving for the Dynasty I'd pick one of those up for quick jobs.Sent from my SPH-L710 using TapatalkTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:Well, I bit the bullet. Soonest Miller demo day I could find that's halfway nearby was in mid-August, so I said the heck with it and ordered the Multimatic. Got the package that has the base machine and the TIG contractor pack, and it should be coming in early next week. Soonest I'll be back out to the LWS will be next Thursday, so I'll be back with info on how it runs in a new thread, sometime after that.I decided having a portable MIG setup was worth the extra weight for now, and maybe I'll take a 2-wheel dolly and make a little cart for longer-distance hauls with it. Make some hangers for leads and extension cord, add on a holder for a small CO2 bottle, a second shelf for the TIG contractor kit and another for my bag that holds cordless grinders, gloves, leathers, etc. Then make the cart collapsible so it can fit in the trunk of my Civic, and I'll have a "welding car" that gets 45 mpg for all of these small jobs.On down the road, I'll pick up a stick / TIG machine like the Maxstar 150. Because I still think it would be cool to balance out a welder in one hand with cheeseburger and fries in the other. Maybe by then, they'll have the 150 perfected to where it can run 6010 well.
Reply:Congrats on the purchase. Let us know how it works for you.Sent from my SPH-L710 using TapatalkTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:Sometime this weekend I'll start a new thread in the Miller forum on the results from this machine, but suffice it to say here that it runs great on MIG and stick in the vertical up position (time was short, so I didn't mess with other positions.) Switching from MIG to stick or vice versa is as easy as turning a process selector switch, unplugging one lead and plugging the other one in to the same socket. You can literally be welding in a different process in 20 seconds, including taking a swig of Mt Dew.Have only run it on 110V so far because that's the most common outlet available to me on tiny jobs. With that input voltage, 3/32 7018 runs great, as does both 3/32 and 1/8 6010 5P+. No need to switch to 6011 on this machine. So let the naysayers stick that in their pipe and smoke it. 1/8 7018 is a little harder to get going, but runs well once lit. I expect that problem would disappear when the unit was switched to 240V. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:06:55