7018 vs 6010??

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dont want to sound stupid but got a question for you all. Why does a electrode classified as a lower penetraton rod the 7018 become the structural standard over say a 60105p+ which is considered deep penetration just curious? Thanks in advance!
Reply:There is more to a rods strength than just penetration. There's things like tensile strength, ductility, impact resistance, and so on.7018 is a low hydrogen rod. As such, when stored and used properly, it reduces the chances of hydrogen cracking in higher strength steels. It's also more ductile and has less chance of cracking in cold weather impact. Ductility being important in seismic areas of the country, and cold weather impact ratings important say in bridges in areas of the country where extreme cold happens in the winter.  The 70 refers to it's minimum tensile strength at 70,000 psi, vs only 60,000 for 6010. However there are plenty of stronger rods out there as well. 11018 would be a 100,000 psi minimum rated, low hydrogen rod for example, suitable for higher strength steels..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:There are others on here that can explain it a lot better i'm sure, but basically (in my opinion anyway) 7018 has 10,000 pounds more tensile strength.  You COULD go up to 7010 (HYP) which would match the tensile, but the 18 series rods (low hydrogen) will produce a weld that will be more ductile.  Where the 10 series rods will have more of a tendency to crack.  That's always been my understanding of it anyway.  A lot of people prefer the 10 or 11 series due to it's ability to "burn thru" rust, grime and dirt better.  But the way I was taught (by pipeline welders) you always properly prepare your weld area on the metal before running a bead anyway.  My rule of thumb has always been if it's pipe 6010 or 7010.  If it's a trackhoe bucket or something of that sort, 7018.  There are exceptions of course.  I've welded casing pipe uphill with 7018.  I've also fixed equipment with 7010 (middle of nowhere with no dry 7018)  I run 10 series rods downhill (way I was taught and have always done it) but some procedures call for it to run uphill also.  When I get one of my SA200's running, I'm gonna give that a shot.  The bobcat i've been using does good to keep it lit running downhill.  It runs 7018 really nice (up to 1/8".  It doesn't like 5/32" any way but flat).-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:DSW was typing at the same time as me I reckon, and like I said, some on here can explain it better than me...LOL-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:Penetration isn't the only thing required to have a good sound weld. 7018 has a much more ductile weld. Less spatter. Higher deposition rates.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Alright.. Now we know DSW types faster than I do.. Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:6010 and 6011 have less flux, less likely to get a slag inclusion when running down hill,  more of your heat goes towards melting electrode and the work, less energy used to melt heavy flux.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:thanks everybody so 10 series for pipe low hydrogen for the rest if i understand correctly ?
Reply:7018 really isn't the "standard" over 6010. Most of the time they are complementary to each other. If welding over 5/16 I usually burn in a root pass of 6010 and cover with 7018.  You get the best of both.
Reply:andy917The paucity of your question is dubious?Opus
Reply:I've also read that certain electrodes of the same classification are better than others.  For example, Lincoln states that their  7024-1 electrode has a higher ductility rating than standard 7024.  I'd assume without looking at the numbers at the moment, that 6010 is different than 6010 5P and 6010 5P+.  Etc.....Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:I worked structural all my life. I could go for years and never see 6010 on a job site. Well the pipe fitters always had it, but we didn't. I did some fillet weld break tests a few years ago. 7018 right out of the oven, took 23-blows with a 4-pound hammer to beat the two plates together. Then I had to beat the top plate back the other direction to break the weld! 6010 5P-Plus it only took 10-blows and the weld snapped. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:thanks for the info you guys are great!!!
Reply:I'm a structural welder myself. 6010 doesn't comply with the structural code. It's strictly low hy 7018 for structural welding. Pressure pipe is a different story. Strictly 6010 for root passes in pipe. Then 7018 fill and cap.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Glad I used 7018 for the important stuff. Also if you want to use 7018 you have to keep it dry. Here humidity is typically between 15% and 50%.I still store my 7018 rod in a 40mm ammo can.Its so dry 6010 and 6011can dry out on the really dry days so bad they will run funky. I have seen humidity between 1% and 3% here.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:CEP. When was the last time you welded a joint like that for a structure???? I think of any item engineered to have a single bead t joint then put that much stress on the verticals. All t joints I have seen that are inaccessible on the back side are boxed/or nearly so, which means the vertical iron has is top edge guarded.   While I am not saying 6010 is better in many applications, I am saying that in any properly engineered structure made out of a36 steel and anywhere close to properly welded with even 6010, the steel is going to fail before the weld. Codes are not always best in many ways, they are many times written to do things adequately to what several experts deemed so.   Experts deemed that if you have fresh or oven heated 7018 it's hard to go wrong. Only having one rod means less to worry about in the supply side or carrying up 10 floors of a high rise. Of coarse there is typically back side access, helpers to bevel and prep iron and large powerful welders to ensure proper penetration of heavy steel.  Now step into a farm or heavy machine repair shop where joe farmer has been using his loader tractor as a bull dozer and cracked a crosstube or arm.   Single phase is all that available and you just have 1/8"rod. V out the crack and burn in 6010At 105 amps you know it has full penetration. Cap with 7018 if it's older, 9018 or 10018 if it built in the last decade or so with high strength steel.
Reply:6010 or 6011 is used pretty much only for tacks or root on crap material on construction sites. 7018 is used because its typically a stronger weld for not much more cost for electrodes. I really don't use 6010 because 6011 is easier to obtain in small amounts and for tacks or burning into a crack it really doesn't  . As for strength on mild steel either rod has a higher tensile strength than the steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by firebrick43CEP. When was the last time you welded a joint like that for a structure????
Reply:Thanks all for the good info.Doing the best I can with what I got
Reply:I know, it's a good test to show lack of fusion.  But in the text you sited it doesn't say anything about testing the strenghth of a weldment.  That's the tension and bend test which properly welded 6010 will pass with flying colors on a36 or a500 steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI worked structural all my life. I could go for years and never see 6010 on a job site. Well the pipe fitters always had it, but we didn't. I did some fillet weld break tests a few years ago. 7018 right out of the oven, took 23-blows with a 4-pound hammer to beat the two plates together. Then I had to beat the top plate back the other direction to break the weld! 6010 5P-Plus it only took 10-blows and the weld snapped.
Reply:If I get caught welding a36 structural steel with 6010, I'm fired and escorted to the gate and out of a job.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:For the most part it's just the small, low dollar inverters that don't run 6010 well. The larger inverters like the Lincoln Invertec and Miller XMT's run 6010 very well.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I would like to add that 6010 is a fast freeze rod which allows welding of gaps from only one side where as the 7018 is a fill and cap rod. If welding gaps you better have access to the other side or have a fill rod [slug] which isnt allowed by any code. Both have their purpose in industry and both meet required specs for certain jobs. They are the best universal all positions (semi newbie friendly) Rods available anywhere. and they GET THE JOB DONE. Just my .02
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeFor the most part it's just the small, low dollar inverters that don't run 6010 well. The larger inverters like the Lincoln Invertec and Miller XMT's run 6010 very well.Originally Posted by snoeproeFor the most part it's just the small, low dollar inverters that don't run 6010 well. The larger inverters like the Lincoln Invertec and Miller XMT's run 6010 very well.
Reply:Originally Posted by firebrick43CEP. When was the last time you welded a joint like that for a structure???? I think of any item engineered to have a single bead t joint then put that much stress on the verticals. All t joints I have seen that are inaccessible on the back side are boxed/or nearly so, which means the vertical iron has is top edge guarded.   While I am not saying 6010 is better in many applications, I am saying that in any properly engineered structure made out of a36 steel and anywhere close to properly welded with even 6010, the steel is going to fail before the weld. Codes are not always best in many ways, they are many times written to do things adequately to what several experts deemed so.   Experts deemed that if you have fresh or oven heated 7018 it's hard to go wrong. Only having one rod means less to worry about in the supply side or carrying up 10 floors of a high rise. Of coarse there is typically back side access, helpers to bevel and prep iron and large powerful welders to ensure proper penetration of heavy steel.  Now step into a farm or heavy machine repair shop where joe farmer has been using his loader tractor as a bull dozer and cracked a crosstube or arm.   Single phase is all that available and you just have 1/8"rod. V out the crack and burn in 6010At 105 amps you know it has full penetration. Cap with 7018 if it's older, 9018 or 10018 if it built in the last decade or so with high strength steel.