Desisions, Desisions....TIG Machines?

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Well, i have wanted for a long while an AC/DC SMAW/TIG machine.  Been looking at the following:Miller Sycrowave 180SDLincoln Precision TIG 185Miller Dynasty 200SDThermal Arc Pro-Wave 185TSWHeres the deal.  I can get the Millers at a local welding supply shop for less 5% of the price (educational discount).  So, here are the prices i got qouted for that:SD180: $1758.00 less 5%=$1670.00,+8.25% sales tax which brings me to a whopping $1,807.89!200SD(Dynasty): $2,800 less 5%= $2,660.00+8.25%= $2879.45Alot o' dough...The Precision TIG185 i found online, shipped to my door for $1674.00 (Welders-Direct.com)  Kinda better than the SD180, as it has pulse control, a little cheaper too.  But mind you, both the SD180 are big and heavy, but have the features i'm after (pulse is a plus too...)Now, the Thermal Arc Pro-Wave185 seems kind of a mix between the Dynasty 200SD and 200DX.  It also seems to have everything and more than i'm looking for... Added bonus:  it weighs 42#'s, and has a amp range of 5-185.  And the price is a "Buy It Now" on eBay for $1,646.87.  Includes everything from the foot control, to the gas regulator to the tortch.  Has pulse and wave slope adjustments, all that crap.  The only thing you cannot do is plug it into 120v, like you can with the Dynasty 200's.Are the Thermal Arc machines any good??? That price is REAL GOOD.  I know they are part of the Thermal Dyne company, and their plasma machine are pretty damn good....So whats the deal???? I'm about one click away from buying one of these TA Pro-wave185's right now....just wondering if that is a good move or not??Thanks for any feedback/directions!Matt
Reply:Thermal arc is noted as being the caddy of welders.  I dont have one, but everyone I have heard talk about them really like them (or love them).  Georgia power uses bunches of 'um.  Youve narrowed it to a nice group.  How portable do you need?  How important is that 120v plug?  Choosing is hell sometimes.You might also want to talk to halbritt about his experiment duplexing two 120v into a 240v source and see if he has it working yet.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I'm still waiting on my Powcon 400SM and once I get it, I'm going to go hook it up to some 3-phase and weld some 1" plate.  Assuming it works as well as I've read, I doubt I'll ever want to hook it up to single-phase again.-Heath
Reply:Power is really not an issue.  Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to plug into 120 and weld away, but where ever i'm gonna use the machine, 220-240v is available.  I wonder why the price is so cheap on the TA Pro-wave??? The same thing from Miller (Dynasty 200DX) is close to $3,000.  Add a coolmate 3 and you are well over $3k...Seems almost to good to be true, but the company has a bunch up on eBay, so it seems legit.  I had a line on a used Dynasty 200SD w/Coolmate3 and all the stuff for $1,500.00 obo, thats long gone now.  Looks like the Thermal Arc is the way to go, i suppose....
Reply:The TA seems to have somewhat of a smaller duty cycle than the Miller or Lincoln...30% for TIG, and 40% for smaw.  Is that really that big of a deal.  I'm not going to to be welding for more than 3-4mins at a time anyway  (at least with stick, lately i seems to get stuck like every 30sec!lol!!).  What do you think the max thickness of Aluminum is that this machine can weld.  I know the SD180 can do up to 1/4in, but that is kinda pushing it.
Reply:Thermal Arc should have a chart on all that.  I would thin 1/4" would bel within it's capabilities at full amperage.  As for the duty cycle, it's the difference you are concerned with.  What is the ratio between the miller/lincoln and the TA duty cycle?  DutyCycleTA divided by DutyCycleMiller.  Is it .9? .8?  I would think much smaller than .9 and you will really notice the difference.May be that they are really trying to cut into the miller and lincoln market share by undercutting their price or adding more features.  They (Thermal arc) also seem to hold their price, so it makes me think that difference in reliability (if there is one) is not a huge factor.  For people/companies who work the depreciation schedules to their max, the risk of trying an alternative tool might be more than they are willing to stomach, and miller/lincoln may be capitalizing off this.  Marketing and product differentiation is why we pay more for one pair of jeans than another...why would welders be different, really?  Qualtiy versus preceived quality.  If they have a nice warranty, why not go with the one with a better feature/dollar?  Hell, you might have talked me into one.....Halbritt,Why is that welder taking so long?  Did they use pony express or what?  You are right about 3phase.  That was the only bit of remorse I felt.  Swapping back to single felt like a Farrari with a governor.  Took a while to re-adjust after seeing what it would do.  I have been thinking of tag-teaming my two 300's on single phase for 400 amps.  I bet that might get my spirits back up.Last edited by smithboy; 08-11-2005 at 05:10 PM.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Well, just ordered the Thermal Arc.  Talked to the dude from Indiana O2 (the people selling the units), asked him why so cheap?  He said they buy in rediculous quanitity, so they are working with a really big discount, hence the cheap price of 1646.87, shipped to my door!  I think this was a pretty wise choice, it sucks to have to drop that much all at once, but hey, what are ya gonna do??? It was time for a new toy anyway! lol!!
Reply:Well if you know what you need (or want, really), best to act on it.  Think of it this way.  If you were going to college to get a 4-year degree, this would not even cover a semester of tuition in a crappy school, and I bet you that you will learn much more from good equipment rather than spending your time fishing and hoping for a better deal on used equip.  You are investing in your future, so it's money well spent.  How many college students do you think use those thousands of dollars worth of books after they go to work (assuming they dont trade them in on beer after the semester is over)?  You have a learning tool and a tool that can generate income.  A TWOFER!!!Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Smithboy, well put.  I'm happy.  Can't wait till it shows up!
Reply:Just remember portability=steal-ability.  Keep that new toy locked up when not in use.  One of the reasons I have stuck with my big copper-based tig machine is that the man who steals it will be a bigger man than I am.  Have a good time and post your thoughts on the machine.  It will definately help the next guy make his decision.Last edited by smithboy; 08-12-2005 at 05:40 PM.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Congratulations on the new TIG machine.  You should let us know how it works out when you get it.  One rule-of-thumb for TIG welding aluminum is one amp per .001" of material.Smithboy, the delay on the Powcon is partly my fault.  It took me a few days to get money into my paypal account.  Apparently, "electronic" transfer is not the same as "instant" transfer.  Also, the seller, based on his feedback is a relatively slow shipper.  I'm fine with it, as I'm a patient man.  That and there's no better feeling than buying something on ebay, forgetting about it, and then having it be a surprise when it shows up.  I haven't even gotten a wire feeder yet and I'm already starting to eye one of those Miller HF units with solenoid and contactor for TIG.  I lost the auction on the Powcon feeder with plasma cutter, I wasn't willing to go too high on that one, but I've got leads on a couple of nice wire feeders so I'm not too worried.  I should be making sparks with the new welder in a couple weeks.-Heath
Reply:Good choice on the welder.  I'm going to purchase the Thermal Arc 185TSW in the next couple of months, along with a used Bernard/Lincoln cooler off of Ebay.  Of course a water cooled TIG torch will follow - I'm just not sure which one to buy at this point.  I bought my Millermatic 175 from Indiana Oxygen.  They are a top notch place to buy from and Bill is very helpful.  Have no fears about ordering from them.
Reply:I was wondering about that too.  How important are the watercooled torches?  At 185amps, i don't think it would be that important, however, welding aluminum on the SD 180 gets pretty hot...2002 VW Golf TDi1994 Audi S4
Reply:well, more importantly, this machine says it operates from 208v-230v.  I have 240v service.  Will this be an issue or not???2002 VW Golf TDi1994 Audi S4
Reply:I use a 150amp weldcraft 17 something or another.  I have used it for short periods at 200 amps without a bit of problem.  The torch is 2 or three years old and still welds like a new one.  Air cooled is fine considering the welder has a duty cycle anyway.  It also makes for a lighter configuration.  I think there are several makers now with 200 and some 300 amp air cooled torches.  Mine was about $60 with a tungsten, and everything for 3/32 setup (max for that torch).  This is a less expensive torch, but parts are available and I like it.  I have used $150-$250 torches without a real difference in perceptible performance, except being 100% duty cycle.  You might want a flex head.  I used one and want one.  They are nice.About the electric service.  There are several folks here that know that stuff up one side and down another.  I think you are ok.  I have the same situation for my powcons.  They say 230, but at least on has run on 240 for years now, but hopefully someone will jump in and give both of us the details on why or why not to do this.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:^ yep.  That would help a bunch.  Another thing, and i prolly should make another post about this, but, here is the deal:I have 240v, with a 50amp breaker, and a big *** line coming off the breaker, outta the box.  What wire goes where?  The wires coming off the breaker are as follows:1 silver wire, no coating, which is a ground.1 black wire with a red tracer1 black wire with a yellow tracer.What of the 2 black wire goes to what side of the breaker???  One side of the breaker is labeled "common trip".  So basically, Does the one with the red tracer go on the left or right?  Same goes for the wire coming outta the machine.  I think there is a green (ground), and a white and balck, so how do those correspond to the 2 black wires with tracers coming outta the breaker???Any help would REALLY be great!Thanks,Matt2002 VW Golf TDi1994 Audi S4
Reply:I would not want to venture a guess on this one.  All I have ever dealt with is black, red, white or black, white, bare or black, white, green for 240 single phase.  On my plug for my welder with the neutral on top, white is on the right and black is on the left.     GB     W I have never seen the wires you are talking about in 240v.  Best guess (remember, I said guess) is that red tracer=black and yellow tracer=white in the above.  I'd get 2 confirmations on this GUESS before attemption to plug anything in.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Got the machine yesterday!  Works PERFECTLY!  Very smooth arc, and more controls/adjustments than you can shake a stick at.   I'll post some pics of my practice welds in a little bit.  I put a few together yesterday, using mild steel, no filler rod, and some with filler rod.  Still gotta get use to it, and fine tune amp settings and what not.  The beads came out a little big and prolly to hot, as the welds looked all gray and such.  I like being able to weld with out filler metal,  pretty amazing.2002 VW Golf TDi1994 Audi S4
Reply:What model/type of TIG torch does the 185TSW come with?  I'm going to order one online in the next couple of weeks, but I'd like to pick up some gas lens, backcaps, collets and tungstens ahead of time so that when it shows up - I'm ready to start learning.