Advice on a generator?

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Hi all, not sure if this is in the right forum, but...Currently stuck welding in the garage, and the dad doesn't want me burning the house down quite yet . We've got a barn that will be wired and plugged for 220v soon-ish, but its all dirt and straw on the floor, so thats outta the question till I can pour a concrete pad. So now I'm in need of a portable generator for my stick. Its a ward-powercraft ac/dc stick welder, usually being run at ~90-110 amps (or so the lever says). If its suitable for my needs, I need the gas powered with wheels that I can pull around, Honda-type of ones. (would also be used to power the freezer when the power is out, and power other hand tools around the farm). I will mostly be welding fence panels, gates, etc. Eventually could be mounted to a trailer to be towed from the atv or pickup. From what you all know, would one of these be powerful enough for me? Any advice on brands, output levels etc is appreciated.Thanks
Reply:By the time you get a generator big enough to handle your welder. You could've bought a used engine drive machine. Search craigslist for ranger8, ranger9,bobcat225,and so on. I've saw them for under a thousand every once and a while, you just need to keep your eyes open. If you are truly set on a straight generator, I'd say 7000kw would be your minimum and I mean minimum. Good luck happy hunting.
Reply:I second the idea of a good used engine drive over a generator to run the cracker box on. It will give more available power output weldingwise and generator wise for the same or maybe less money. And when it comes time to move it around, it's only one peice to deal with instead of a seperate generator and welding machine. Not to mention that one of them( like A/B mentioned) could power your little welder if needed to, but one of them will most likely weld better than yours anyway. So do a search for a good used engine drive welding machine instead.
Reply:Lincoln recommends a 15 KW genny to run their small AC 225 that draws pretty much what your machine does. Even on reduced output you'll need a pretty good sized genny. Math would say you can get away with a smaller generator, but factor in inefficiency in the system and loss, as well as the inrush current tranny machines like that create, and you need a much larger unit than you might expect.Also keep in mind when you look at stand alone generators, most units under 10 KW are rated in surge wattage, not continuous output which is what you will need. A typical 8KW genny probably only puts out 6500 watts continuous, or something close to that. It's not until you hit big full sized generators that they start marking them at continuous ratings. That helps them sell smaller gennerators as customers think they are getting more for their money.As suggested, your best bet is to look at an engine drive. Besides the bigger units mentioned, there are a bunch of small dedicated welder generators out on the market. New things like Miller Bluestars, Honda EW 171, lLincoln Bulldog or Outback for example. Older used units would be the Miller AEAD's and Lincoln Weldanpowers as well as similar units.Another option might be to rent one until you get your 220 installed and the floor poured. My rental place rents the Honda Welders rather inexpensively. At $86 a day or $33 for the 2 hour minimum, it's hard to beat if you don't need one for a long time. It saves you all the hassle of new methanol gas going bad and gumming up the carb in a machine that may not be used regularly at your place..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Keep your eyes open for a older engine drive welder like a Lincoln weldandpower or an older miller bluestar 2e or miller aead. These units can be had for under $800 and are very good welders/generators.I recently purchased a 1985 miller bluestar 2E. It is a very nice little unit. 200 amps dc. The old Tecumseh engine purrs like a kitten. I strictly use non oxygenated fuels in all my small motors. Non of the methanol blended crap.Last edited by snoeproe; 08-04-2014 at 08:11 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:If you want a Genny that's somewhat mobile, you're not gonna get one big enough to power a transformer welder.  You'll have to go with a big Genny, 10,000 watts or larger.  If you're willing to buy another welder first, my Maxstar 150 and my TA161S both work perfectly off my Honda EX5000.  A cheaper alternative for you would be the ESAB161 which is sub $500.   This was my option because I already had the generator.  I tried a Lincoln ACDC225 off my Genny and couldn't weld at 125 amps for over a second before I blew the generator.  I'm not sure about Bluestar 145's, but the 185 is a big machine to roll around.
Reply:DSW touches on THE most important issue; a CV/CC generator. Drf255 touches on the best alternatives which might run on a smaller generator and do the job, or that run on 110V and relieve you of a lot of needs, with some flexibility.You will burn out the voltage regulator/ damage the stator of a standard 4500W generator, despite it being 'able' to carry the load. Welders tend to hit pretty hard when they strike an arc. A 110V stick/ tig machine that runs on 110/220 usually tops out at 100A on 110v, and 150A on a 20A 220V circuit. Those little portable welders can work miracles.....And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:I agree with just getting a engine drive welder. It would be a great asset to the farm and you could then weld anywhere and have 10,000 watt generator. Here's what I made for my Trailblazer; on a wheel cart and the whole setup fits as is on trailer. Post 36 http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...-Em-Up!!/page2
Reply:Quote "Currently stuck welding in the garage, and the dad doesn't want me burning the house down quite yet "Why not an extension cord to get out of the garage?As long as its not raining or snowing, you could do your welding outside.
Reply:I run my MIG off a Champion 7K/9K generator I bought at Costco for $500. Works great for my needs. It bogs down at the top end while running my HTP welder but can handle the top end of my Hobart 210. When I was looking for a generator, I called Hobart to get their recommendation and they told me the Hobart has a peak pull of 6600W. Now I know stick welders draw a LOT more current, but I would assume it should be able to power your welder at the 100amp range just fine. And it will power your fridge! You could always get a MIG too and then you have two new toys!John 3:16(2) Miller Pheonix 456(2) Millermertic 252Dynasty 210DXHobart 210MVPDoringer D350 SA Cold SawScotchman 350LT Cold SawWebb 10x50 MillWebb 15x40 LatheGeka Bendicrop Ironworker
Reply:Ditto the cord, and/or longer leads. Can usually find used leads on CL for about a buck a foot 50 or 100 foot away from the welder is a handy thing to have anyway.
Reply:Just to be clear:DSW and snoeproe: from what I understand, what you're talking about functions as a generator and a stick welder in one machine, and is gas poweredDrf225 and rojodiablo: just get a smaller welder that will run at 110v and off normal generatorDrujinin and walker, getting an extension cord and leads is going to have to be my short term solution, but at some point (pretty soon most likely) i will have to go fix things that I cant get back to the house, and are to far out for a cord.Getting a generator and a new smaller welder seems like it is approaching the price point of an all-in-one gas powered machine. Seeing as I am still in high school and on quite a tight budget (workin 45+ hours a week, and keepin my truck runnin), which do you all think would be the most cost effective option? I'm willing to get something a little more expensive if it is going to last longer, be (a lot) less of a hassle, more reliable etc. in the long runThanks for all the replies, its very welcoming to a newbie
Reply:Just today I dragged my Miller "61" out of the shop, purchased a new Nema L14 20 ampere plug to fit the receptacle on my 5K Coleman, (6.5K Peak) generator and went though about four pounds of 1/8"  E6011 within say 1/2 hour. I wanted to give the old machine a workout before I decide what to do with it. The dial was set at very close the 125 ampere stencil of the faceplate. This went very smooth and did not exhibit any struggling, or tripping of the generator. I also ran a bit of E6013, and some E7018AC of maybe 10 rods each. The base metal was 4" rigid steel conduit on all the rods. This is heavily galvanized but offered no real problems. The new plug was warm to the touch when I finished up so a 30 ampere plug would be best in this application. However, a NEMA L14 rated at 30 amperes will not fit my 20 ampere receptacle. Moral of the story is a good 5K genset will most likely carry your load if you are running 1/8th" rod at about 125 amperes. Bigger is always better but I can manhandle this one into the back of a pickup if need be.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobThe new plug was warm to the touch when I finished up so a 30 ampere plug would be best in this application. However, a NEMA L14 rated at 30 amperes will not fit my 20 ampere receptacle.
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobJust today I dragged my Miller "61" out of the shop, purchased a new Nema L14 20 ampere plug to fit the receptacle on my 5K Coleman, (6.5K Peak) generator and went though about four pounds of 1/8"  E6011 within say 1/2 hour. I wanted to give the old machine a workout before I decide what to do with it. The dial was set at very close the 125 ampere stencil of the faceplate. This went very smooth and did not exhibit any struggling, or tripping of the generator. I also ran a bit of E6013, and some E7018AC of maybe 10 rods each. The base metal was 4" rigid steel conduit on all the rods. This is heavily galvanized but offered no real problems. The new plug was warm to the touch when I finished up so a 30 ampere plug would be best in this application. However, a NEMA L14 rated at 30 amperes will not fit my 20 ampere receptacle. Moral of the story is a good 5K genset will most likely carry your load if you are running 1/8th" rod at about 125 amperes. Bigger is always better but I can manhandle this one into the back of a pickup if need be.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rix96Just to be clear:DSW and snoeproe: from what I understand, what you're talking about functions as a generator and a stick welder in one machine, and is gas poweredGetting a generator and a new smaller welder seems like it is approaching the price point of an all-in-one gas powered machine. Seeing as I am still in high school and on quite a tight budget (workin 45+ hours a week, and keepin my truck runnin), which do you all think would be the most cost effective option? I'm willing to get something a little more expensive if it is going to last longer, be (a lot) less of a hassle, more reliable etc. in the long runThanks for all the replies, its very welcoming to a newbie
Reply:I agree on all fronts and was surprised to see this actually work. I've not had that old Miller out in the open, (or even plugged in) for over 15 years and really was surprised it still worked. It has always been a much smoother welder than my Lincoln AC "buzz box" in application and much more fine tunable. A high resistance internal connection being the root cause of the plug heating is a strong possibility and I really can't say if any other welder would operate as this one did. I'm a bit at a loss as to why it did weld at all given the full rated nameplate amperage of 37. You'd think the 125 ampere setting would be more than 20 amperes draw. It's always had a 60 ampere plug on it as that is what I used to use on everything; this much smaller plug was installed to run this test to see if it would work. Being unfamiliar with the thread starter's set, it may be prudent for them to borrow or rent something and give it a go to find something that works for his application without spending more funds than necessary? If they were to cart the welder to a rental yard, they may even let you test out a generator on their lot without rental cost incurred. Most of the inexpensive engine drive welders really don't have a large enough AC section to make use of the machine for anything but small tools. One of the main benefits to having a small engine generator, (genset) such as 7.5K-10K rated would be backup power for your house if needed.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:This is kind of late, but for those of you recommending an engine driven welder, is this the type of machine you mean?http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/tls/4612405951.htmlAlso, if this is what you all mean, what should I look for (in general for engine-driven) if I go look at things like thisAs always, thanks for your time
Reply:Found this one as well:http://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/4608822613.htmlAll advice is welcome
Reply:That would be a nice one. 115 hrs on the machine is low. Price also seems low to me compared to what I normally see units that size going for. If it works well I'd be very tempted as it's an excellent price. 9KW of aux power and AC/DC capability. I want to say I think the Rangers are CC/CV machines also, but I'm not familiar enough with the Lincoln units to make a definite statement on that without pulling up the manual from Lincoln and double checking it. I'd make sure it runs well, makes aux power and welds if I went to go look at it..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ranger 9 is CV also. I would be on it for that price. I have seen these with 2 or 3 thousand hours before, just watch your oil changes.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThat would be a nice one. 115 hrs on the machine is low. Price also seems low to me compared to what I normally see units that size going for. If it works well I'd be very tempted as it's an excellent price. 9KW of aux power and AC/DC capability. I want to say I think the Rangers are CC/CV machines also, but I'm not familiar enough with the Lincoln units to make a definite statement on that without pulling up the manual from Lincoln and double checking it. I'd make sure it runs well, makes aux power and welds if I went to go look at it.
Reply:I missed you posting the Bluestar while I was replying earlier. That's a decent machine as well, but that Ranger is much nicer ( assuming in good working order) and that from a die hard Miller fan. Price on the Bluestar is fair in my book. Remember it has no leads, so figure in $200 or so to add leads, stinger and work clamp..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Jump on that Ranger deal. If it was closer to me I would.
Reply:Well that was fast. The ad on the Ranger has already been taken down In general, would I be able to plug the freezer (or something like that) into these for a day or two if the power goes out? My Dad might be willing to split the cost on something like this if he wouldn't buy need separate generator. What do you guys think of the Miller i posted above, since the Ranger is gone? (http://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/4608822613.html)Also: this weldanpower is up as well. Thoughts? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/tls/4590791377.html Finally, this..thing..looks pretty wicked, thought it looked pretty interesting http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/grd/4612753535.htmlAt that price, no big surprise that Ranger didn't last long. The Miller isn't bad, but as mentioned doesn't come with leads. Aux power is about 3kw from the oldest manual I can look at on Millers site.  Weldanpower isn't bad, and it comes with leads, making it a better deal than the Miller. Aux power there is only about 3kw cont ( shows 4.5kw but that is  surge wattage I bet). Enough to run  small tools like a grinder , lights etc when not welding. Would probably run a fridge in an emergency, but not much else at the same time. Aux power here has a slight edge over the Miller. I'd avoid that old Navy one. if you have any problems parts may be a major headache..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If you are set on a generator go for a pto drive if you have a tractor.   A 15 kw pto drive arou d here can be had for 500 to 800
Reply:A lot of older welders only put out 110 volts DC current. I wouldn't buy one unless it had 8000 watts or more, its pretty easy to max out anything less than that. The PTO generator option would be a good way to go if it would work for you.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAt that price, no big surprise that Ranger didn't last long. The Miller isn't bad, but as mentioned doesn't come with leads. Aux power is about 3kw from the oldest manual I can look at on Millers site.  Weldanpower isn't bad, and it comes with leads, making it a better deal than the Miller. Aux power there is only about 3kw cont ( shows 4.5kw but that is  surge wattage I bet). Enough to run  small tools like a grinder , lights etc when not welding. Would probably run a fridge in an emergency, but not much else at the same time. Aux power here has a slight edge over the Miller.
Reply:Last night I missed that the Lincoln was only AC and not AC/DC like the Miller.  As far as which is "better, depends... Given a choice, as you found DC welds much nicer than AC does in some situations. I almost never use AC stick, since most of my units are AC/DC or DC only. I sold off my original AC only unit as an extra I just didn't need taking up space. That said, plenty of stuff has been built using only Ac machines. A good rod choice like 7014 or 7024 that likes to run on AC can make it tough to really tell the difference between the two. Some AC machines however are very picky about 7018 rods, even 7018AC rods that are supposed to be able to be run on Ac. If you have a real "need" to use 7018, 8018 rods etc, then DC is mos definitely the way to go.I was looking at two things when I looked at the differences last night between the two. #1 the additional cost of leads that needs to be added to the Miller that increases the price. And 2nd the fact that the Miller most likely has a lower aux AC output rating if you want to use it as a straight genny. The serial number shown doesn't come up on Millers site for a manual. The oldest letter code that does show up only shows 3KW output, and I can't be 100% certain the older model even has aux output that high. If all you plan to do is be able to power a grinder in the field or maybe a chop saw or portaband, maybe a work light, low aux power isn't a big deal. When you start looking at powering things in a power outage, you will want every KW you can get, then probably 2 to 3 times more....Note that most small genny's are rated in "surge" wattage, not continuous output. A "surge" is like what happens when the lights dim briefly when the window Ac kicks in and the start up rush drops the voltage briefly until things get up to speed. You can't use that "extra" wattage to help figure out what will or will not run. For that you want continuous wattage. Also note than many small welders like these, you can't draw full weld output and aux power at the same time. They figure you will either be welding, or grinding, not both. Bigger more expensive units are set up so you can have guys doing two or three things all at once, but not small units.I might opt for the Miller being AC/DC vs the Ac only Lincoln. The price difference isn't huge, and for what I often need to do with a portable stick unit, being able to run 7018 would be a help..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan