tractor trailer repair with a HH 140 mig

admin

Well soon as I got a welder my brother in law (a trucker) asked me to come do some work on his trailer. It seems the forks of his fork lift had worn plumb threw part of it used to mount the fork lift. I found a couple other things wrong and fixed them while I was there. Keep in mind I have only been in intro to mig class for four weeks and had never ran self shielded flux core wire before. We also found a good use for some railrrad garbage that was in a creek near by...Some welds on the bed had cracked out. I ground them down and rewelded them to warm up.One of the wore spots cut out and ready for repairThe side of one of the railroad plates I welded in. 5 passes on the sides and three passes on the bottom side too. We preheated the plates in a bbq pit to help them not pull so much heat out the welds. If it looks like iwas shaky, its because I was freezing!Here's what it looked like welded in. There are two on this bumper now and two on the opposite side further under the trailer to lock the other side of the forks in.Here's what it holds up until the locking mech gets latched. He says it wieghs in at 4000 pounds.All in all it was pretty fun except my wire kept bird nesting up in the machine and it was 30 degrees out. I don't know what's up with the wire. It was 030 and I had 030 contact tips too but they were really tight and every now and then it would bind up. Cleaning it out with a torch tip cleaner helped but it was still too tight. I think the temp had something to do with it.Last edited by jamesyarbrough; 03-03-2013 at 01:27 AM.
Reply:I expect you will be pilloried and shot for using a 140amp 110V MIG for that kind of work.But progress onward. If you can make it stick for now you can always grind it out and use a more capable machine later.Actually your weld beads don't look too bad for a person with limited experiance.  Keep on making beads!- MondoPS: to fix the bird nesting increase the tension on the spool so it doesn't keep spinning after you let go of the trigger.- mLast edited by Mondo; 03-03-2013 at 01:34 AM.Reason: ps and ususa spelling korectionsMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:As soon as I saw HH 140 and tractor in the same sentence I was like Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:welds look mighty Cold IIRC not burned into the parent metal but since that's just a wear plate and since your repair has nothing to do with its staying in place OTR I guess its fine till it falls off and hits a car might want to take a look at the 110v mig sticky 3/16s is pushing it in real world conditions and thats using a 30 amp 110v circuitMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Originally Posted by WookieWeldingwelds look mighty Cold IIRC not burned into the parent metal but since that's just a wear plate and since your repair has nothing to do with its staying in place OTR I guess its fine till it falls off and hits a car might want to take a look at the 110v mig sticky 3/16s is pushing it in real world conditions and thats using a 30 amp 110v circuit
Reply:30A 110V is a popular branch circuit size for RV power.
Reply:Originally Posted by 84JSD30A 110V is a popular branch circuit size for RV power.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleThat's a lot of current for little wires that typically go with 110v. Good to know thanks.
Reply:I have the beakers for 30 amp and 10g wire but 20a outlets are the biggest I can find
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughAll in all it was pretty fun except my wire kept bird nesting up in the machine and it was 30 degrees out. I don't know what's up with the wire. It was 030 and I had 030 contact tips too but they were really tight and every now and then it would bind up. Cleaning it out with a torch tip cleaner helped but it was still too tight. I think the temp had something to do with it.
Reply:Beads definitely look cold. No big surprise since this is way more than that little machine can handle under even optimal conditions. You really need a bigger machine for this sort of stuff. Just because you pile lots of material on with a small machine, doesn't make it "stronger". At best it's no better than the weak bead holding to the base material..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Those plates were 3/8 thick. Way too much for that little welder.  I just dropped the wire speed as much as I could and went with it.  Before I started the job, I made sure this was in no way structural or would have anything to do with keeping the lift on the trailor. There are some cracked welds that are definitely structural,  but that's a job for a pipeliner and 7018 or even 10018. I expected the welds to pop when he pushed down on the plates with the forks to get it up on the mount. Lol. But they held. He knows to check check these welds every morning before he hits the road too.The important thig is I made enough money to get a bottle and cart for the HH 140!
Reply:Oh thanks for the tips on welder maintenance!
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughOh thanks for the tips on welder maintenance!
Reply:Beware of welding on those railroad tie plates.  Near as I can tell from prior research is that they can be on the order of 1050 steel, though others may be more like 1020. The quenching action in the HAZ may result in a hard, brittle zone."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauAre you gonna try the larger tips for the FC wire? It should help with the birdnesting problem.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumBeware of welding on those railroad tie plates.  Near as I can tell from prior research is that they can be on the order of 1050 steel, though others may be more like 1020. The quenching action in the HAZ may result in a hard, brittle zone.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbrough... The important thing is I made enough money to get a bottle and cart for the HH 140!
Reply:Flux core is good stuff and has its place. There are many kinds of flux core wires on the market similar to stick. However flux core uses different drive rollers. This may have participated in your birdsnesting.
Reply:My little roller has a knurled side for flux core. I think he tip was the problem. It was way too tight.
Reply:Just a thought. I read other places that welders use one size over tips and I do sometimes. I run 0.035 Lincoln 211 flux core at work with 035 tips on a millermatic 252  and don't have a problem.  one size over wont hurt.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauAre you gonna try the larger tips for the FC wire? It should help with the birdnesting problem.
Reply:It took about 12 lbs of tension to pull wire threw the tip alone. That's way tighter than the welders at school! But we have inly been runnin solid wire.I'm goin to try it again with a bigger tip. Its a brand new welder so I doubt anything is messed up.
Reply:Of course a lot of things can cause poor starts or problems keeping the thing lit but a few bad arcing starts, some arcing with push backs, popping with bad grounds, yadda yadda, and it will burn some bad spots down in the tip. Sharp little burrs that will make the tip seem too small. In a way it is (now) but the tip size isn't the problem. The tips are sized right for the wire. Welding smooth is the problem. I run the right tips with the conventional feed rollers (not knurled) using three different sizes of flux core on two different machines. Haven't have any feed issues in ages. (.023 is a different story)Work on getting the right settings, learn the wire, good work lead connection, never try to re-start over the left on slag or rust/paint, clean the metal, all those feed problems and bad tips will just magically go away."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:I appreciate the pointers. I'm gonna keep at it and I will let you guys know how it goes.  The main thing that made me think it was the tip is when I tryed a new one I found it was just as tight on the wire. But whatever the problem is, I will keep at it until it is solved. Next on the agenda is solid core. I'm curious to see if I have any problems with it.Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughI appreciate the pointers. I'm gonna keep at it and I will let you guys know how it goes.  The main thing that made me think it was the tip is when I tryed a new one I found it was just as tight on the wire. But whatever the problem is, I will keep at it until it is solved. Next on the agenda is solid core. I'm curious to see if I have any problems with it.
Reply:So maybe I'm squashing the flux core and that's why it is getting caught up in the tip? That makes a lot of sense. I tryed it tight on the roller and loose and the same on the spindle. Maybe I just haven't found the sweet spot yet.Maybe I will try flipping the dye over to the smooth side too. At school they use 045 U grooved dyes one flux core and the knurled dyes on aluminum.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughSo maybe I'm squashing the flux core and that's why it is getting caught up in the tip? That makes a lot of sense. I tryed it tight on the roller and loose and the same on the spindle. Maybe I just haven't found the sweet spot yet.Maybe I will try flipping the dye over to the smooth side too. At school they use 045 U grooved dyes one flux core and the knurled dyes on aluminum.
Reply:As was pointed out earlier, that 3/8" railroad plate is waaaaaay too thick for that 110v welder.   I know, because I own both a 110 mig machine and I make rifle targets with a boat-load of that old RR tiedown plate.    I myself would be deathly afraid of that "4,000LB" chunk of steel snapping at the weld and falling onto a mini-van filled with 1st graders!    Seriously, WTF?  Ill be frank here because a life could be lost with that "job," but my analogy of your project was that you basically tried to put the old space shuttle solid-fuel rocket boosters onto a little Cessna-172!!!!!  Sure, it might fly for a short distance, but it will no doubt grenade on itself..... and possibly others.  If you made something for lawn art or a shooting target with that steel/welder combo etc.... then no big deal.  However, because you made something very critical and its on the road where it may cause injury or death to others, I think using the wrong equipment for that job was irresponsible.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcAs was pointed out earlier, that 3/8" railroad plate is waaaaaay too thick for that 110v welder.   I know, because I own both a 110 mig machine and I make rifle targets with a boat-load of that old RR tiedown plate.    I myself would be deathly afraid of that "4,000LB" chunk of steel snapping at the weld and falling onto a mini-van filled with 1st graders!    Seriously, WTF?  Ill be frank here because a life could be lost with that "job," but my analogy of your project was that you basically tried to put the old space shuttle solid-fuel rocket boosters onto a little Cessna-172!!!!!  Sure, it might fly for a short distance, but it will no doubt grenade on itself..... and possibly others.  If you made something for lawn art or a shooting target with that steel/welder combo etc.... then no big deal.  However, because you made something very critical and its on the road where it may cause injury or death to others, I think using the wrong equipment for that job was irresponsible.
Reply:If I understand the mounting system correctly, giant pins hold the forklift in place.  So I'm not concerned about it coming off.My actual question is, did the piece you welded on have a wear pad on it before, or was it just the rectangle tubing itself? Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:It was just 1/4 wall square tubing
Reply:From the pics I see, here is something for you to think about from a weld design standpoint.  By leaving the "wear plate" long on the front and back, you have created unsupported levers that likely will work up and down on each loading until your repair eventually tears the welds out or twists the tubing enough times to crack it at the ends.I'm not saying that would happen right away.  It just looks as if that is the situation that has been created.Anyone else see it this way?Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:That's a very good point and something I thought about at the time. I did this repair at an apartment complex (the truckers home) and didn't have a torch with me at the time.  But my brother-in-law has since cut off the excess so it should be ok.I really need a little hobart gas powered stick welder for stuff like this along with a few other things.But I don't have the money for that stuff atm so I will just keep doing little jobs and buying tools with the money til I get done with trade school and start making some real money. This little welder is perfect for 125 wall mild steel tubing, like used in roll cages, and I just happen to have a couple friends that need cages put in so maybe it will all work out.Last edited by jamesyarbrough; 03-04-2013 at 07:09 PM.
Reply:Good to hear it's been cut off and that you were considering weld design - problem solvedHmmmm....semi repair with a 110volt welder and now mild steel tubing for roll cages?  Are you trying to start arguments on Welding Web??? Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Lots of people use mild steel dom for race cars.  A competition engineering cage is about $250 and a moly cage is  around $500. Not to mention all the issues with heat treating and tig welding them in. If someone wants a chrome cage they can take it to a chasis builder.. Furthermore if its a street/strip car your better off with the mild steel because it won't crack out. The only real advantage to moly is its stiffer and gives more consistent reaction times, but its not needed in a 5-600 hp car. That's just overkill. Maybe I should have been more specific about what kind of cars I was talking about (poorboy hot rods). If I put the cage in this nova I will post some pics.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleThat's a lot of current for little wires that typically go with 110v. Good to know thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughLots of people use mild steel dom for race cars.  A competition engineering cage is about $250 and a moly cage is  around $500. Not to mention all the issues with heat treating and tig welding them in. If someone wants a chrome cage they can take it to a chasis builder.. Furthermore if its a street/strip car your better off with the mild steel because it won't crack out. The only real advantage to moly is its stiffer and gives more consistent reaction times, but its not needed in a 5-600 hp car. That's just overkill. Maybe I should have been more specific about what kind of cars I was talking about (poorboy hot rods). If I put the cage in this nova I will post some pics.
Reply:Hopefully I get the job. I could use the money toward a stick welder!
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughMaybe you should reread the thread. It seems your reading comprehension is lacking. The plates are just there to give the forks something to rub on and help the lift get mounted to the trailer. They have nothing to do with the actual mount or latches, which is a couple of hooks and 2 inch pins and then a heavy chain for added saftey. If the plates fell off it would not effect the integrity of the lift mount.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcOkay I was speed reading about the plates.  Maybe it was because i was in shock that you used a jeweler's "tack hammer"  for a job that requires more of a "sledge hammer" to hold up,that "4,000 lbs"  of weight.  Maybe you need to attend a better welding school that teaches common sense about safety and  choosing the proper tool for the job.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughIts amazing how brave people are over the internet. I'm not a kid, I'm a construction worker who is changing trades and rest assured if you insulted me or my school like that face to face you would be picking yourself up off the ground. But I suppose that's why you keep things like you age, name and location a secret.....
Reply:Thanks for the input bill, I completely agree with you there. I gave him a lifetime warranty on the welds, so when they start cracking at the toes I will grind em out and reweld. If I don't have a good stick welder by that time I will just have him take it to my dads shop and bust out the idealarc and some 7018s. Or maybe a 6010 root and 7018 cap. But I will have a stick soon as I make up my mind between the stickmate and stickweld 250. I really want a bobcat but I just can't afford it.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughIts amazing how brave people are over the internet. I'm not a kid, I'm a construction worker who is changing trades and rest assured if you insulted me or my school like that face to face you would be picking yourself up off the ground. But I suppose that's why you keep things like you age, name and location a secret.....
Reply:Usually solved birdnesting probs with proper adjustment of feed roller tension combined with knurled groove roller. Squirt the wire out about a half inch above a piece of wood and adjust the feed tension so it slips slightly rather than bunching up. Been doing it that way for 20 plus years with great success.I really like the wire pre-cleaning idea, though...gonna work on that.  POVERTY...is the Mother of InventionMillermatic 211Millermatic 140Miller Thunderbolt XLArcOne 100STS inverter w/TIGThermal Dynamics 38XL Victor Oxy/AcetyleneJancy Slugger Holemaker IIJet 5x6 BandsawNever enough time & sleep.