Collet question

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Is this normal? And is the twisting caused by taking out and putting in tungsten or by the heat?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleIs this normal? And is the twisting caused by taking out and putting in tungsten or by the heat?
Reply:I keep telling you guys to give up on the cheap Chinese soft copper collets. You need to buy the tellurium alloyed high performance USA made collets that Weldtec, and Weldcraft sell. They are 3 times the cost but last years not minutes.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonIt's normal for soft, CHEAP, China collets bought on eBay.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonIt's normal for soft, CHEAP, China collets bought on eBay.
Reply:Finger tight only, throw that collet wrench in the trash!
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleThanks smartass, but they were purchased from my LWS
Reply:The generic branded stuff sold by LWS is a crapshoot on 'quality'-it was made to a price, period.Blackbird
Reply:What are you guys using to tighten your back caps? A 60" pipe wrench? I've never seen that happen.
Reply:Happened ALOT to me with a 17 torch.  IDK which collets.  Never overtightened.Never ever with my 20.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Try this just for sh@#s and giggles. I know it's an extra PITA, but........ next time you remove or reposition the tungsten, switch out the collet with a "cold" one. Let us know how that works out. Inquiring minds want to know. It seems to be a common theme with air cooled torches.
Reply:I've replaced many collets on my wp-17, but I've never had one twisted up like that. I replace them when they no longer release the tungsten easily. How tight are you making it? Maybe try a little anti-seize lube or graphite.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:I have had them do that before, both 17 air cooled and 20 water cooled torch. I'm sure it has to do with the heat but don't know exactly why it happens. Also be carefull removing collets and back caps when the torch is really hot, sometimes they will get stuck in the torch from the heat and damage the threads.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugI have had them do that before, both 17 air cooled and 20 water cooled torch. I'm sure it has to do with the heat but don't know exactly why it happens. Also be carefull removing collets and back caps when the torch is really hot, sometimes they will get stuck in the torch from the heat and damage the threads.
Reply:GambleHow often do you have to exchange tungsten?  This may be a skill issue, and not tool failure.  Until then  . . . Go with the cinch recommendations, and only buy Quality-Domestic.As a matter of technique, when you experience early symptoms of this problem, up-size your tungsten, and pay more attention to the actual heat of the torch at rest, before you run the next 'too long' of bead.The real solution is a water-cooled torch.  Your problem is most likely acombination of poor product, a 60" wrench, and regularly exceeding the limits of your torch.In short, go water cooled; so you can be flamed on an entirely new learning curve. Opus
Reply:The back is just hand tight, and I don't crank on it. It's a ck9 torch, and rated for 125amps, I haven't gone higher than 116amps. The torch does get pretty hot though.Not really going to spend money on water cooled setup after seeing prices, especially for the diversion 180. If it was a much nicer welder sure. For what I do, I don't think I need water cooled.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Get a 17 torch, 116 isn't far from the 125a the 9 is rated for. Also sometimes pushing more argon than you need will help keep the torch cool.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugGet a 17 torch, 116 isn't far from the 125a the 9 is rated for. Also sometimes pushing more argon than you need will help keep the torch cool.
Reply:Has anybody tried the CK wedge collet in an air cooled torch?  I use some of these with a CK-20 and they're pretty nice, I haven't had any problems with the split style on the 20 but just wanted to try them.The shop does have a WP-17 that used to get a lot of arc time and every once in a while I would waste a split collet.  I only saw the wedge collets when I was looking up info on the CK-20 flex when we picked up a second water cooler unit.http://www.ckworldwide.com/wedge_collets.htmIf your LWS doesn't have them and wants to sell you a full 10 pack you can ask them to order you "sample packs."  They only have 2 collets per pack so you don't have much to loose if you don't like them.~Alex
Reply:Gamble if you decide to go with a new torch you could get a 20 water cooled, it will be the same size as the 9 you have been using. The water cooled torch doesn't cost any more than air cooled and you can just hook a water hose to it so you don't need a water cooler. The 20 and 9 also use the same parts so you wouldn't need to buy new collets and everything.
Reply:I'd expect that to happen after the collet material gets hot enough to anneal.And, the the brass CK Wedge collets can become similarly damaged.  (I know this from personal experience.   )  Except, those won't twist, they will instead just get a little bit bent, but the end result is the same - a worthless collet that can't tighten.It sounds like you are pushing the CK9.  A CK trimline 210 with superflex cable would make for a nice upgrade in power handling over the CK9.  I've been pretty happy with mine; I believe it's the best aircooled torch on the market.  I upgraded to it after burning up a power cable on a WP17 from doing 200 amps AC at too much duty cycle.  (The TL210 on the other hand, can take that sort of abuse.)Watercooled as recommended by others is another option, but there is extra cost as well as extra complexity (and "things to go wrong") with the cooler, potentially dealing with leaks, maintaining the coolant levels, and always remembering to turn it on.Last edited by jakeru; 10-23-2012 at 10:10 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruI'd expect that to happen after the collet material gets hot enough to anneal.And, the the brass CK Wedge collets can become similarly damaged.  (I know this from personal experience.   )  Except, those won't twist, they will instead just get a little bit bent, but the end result is the same - a worthless collet that can't tighten.It sounds like you are pushing the CK9.  A CK trimline 210 with superflex cable would make for a nice upgrade in power handling over the CK9.  I've been pretty happy with mine; I believe it's the best aircooled torch on the market.  I upgraded to it after burning up a power cable on a WP17 from doing 200 amps AC at too much duty cycle.  (The TL210 on the other hand, can take that sort of abuse.)Watercooled as recommended by others is another option, but there is extra cost as well as extra complexity (and "things to go wrong") with the cooler, potentially dealing with leaks, maintaining the coolant levels, and always remembering to turn it on.
Reply:Squirmy his Diversion makes going to a water cooled torch a PITA. They never really designed that machine to easily adapt to a water cooled torch since it has a very low duty cycle 180 amps. It takes a special 17 series torch that's permanently connected to the machine. He was able to go to the 9 simply by changing the head, but going water cooled adds a lot more issues.I'd have to agree I think you may be exceeding the duty cycle on the series 9 torch, or coming very close to it. I've seen a ton of things the kids manage at the tech school, but never seen them do that to the collets on the 17 series torches on the XMT's.. Cheap consumables would also be my guess as well..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by Alex22Those superflex cables are pretty awesome, aren't they?  Their nylon sheath is also very flexible.  I hate using the older machine that has the WP-20 with a stiff nylon cable protector after using the CK.~Alex
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonIt's normal for soft, CHEAP, China collets bought on eBay.Originally Posted by Dualieor sold up front by airgas...
Reply:Bingo.  All of the radnor branded consumables are pure JUNK.   my local airgas keeps the good stuff in the back and you have to ask for it.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieBingo.  All of the radnor branded consumables are pure JUNK.   my local airgas keeps the good stuff in the back and you have to ask for it.
Reply:I  worked for a shop that used collets that did that.......Just figured I was tightening them too tight by hand?   Never gave it much thought they might be cheap parts....I replace the front end parts so often the collets never get a chance to wear out.........  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:About the only problem I ever have with Collets is the fit goes away and I take a jewelers file and make the gap larger so it can grab the tungsten, works pretty good I think the slit is too narrow anyway unless you replace them and that does get costly if you weld 8 hours or more a day.......Tuning them up works for me  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Switch to the new 1 piece weld craft doesn't use a collet its all in one works very wellV
Reply:^Got a link, never seen one.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I'm not sure if I'm thinking of the same part that Vinnie is talking about. If I am, they aren't really easy to find a link for. Search for  10n332sp or 10n18sp. I tried them and don't really like them. They grip the tungsten at the back of the torch, so you can't use a short piece of tungsten. Also, the ones I tried tend to turn when trying to tighten the back cap, loosening the front end parts. But everyone has their preferences, so they may work well for someone else.