Comment on my welds

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I'm a very novice welder and was hoping to get some feedback of some small welds.All the steel is 1/4" plate and/or 1/4" square stock. I used a Miller 211 autoset with the setting just below the 1/4" thickness. I'm right handed and the arrows indicate the direction of travel. I tried both pushing and dragging. Even though the pieces look rusty, I did clean where I was welding. There were heat marks on the backside of the steel.Thanks for any comments. Attached ImagesMillermatic 211 Auto-Set
Reply:Nice!I am a "pull" guy, but on occasion have to push on some joints. The thing I remember is when pulling you can keep your torch at about a 20 degree angle, whereas pushing I have to keep my torch near verticle to maintain some penetration to the root and get some cleaning to lift of the dirt.Your Miller 211 is a nice machine.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Looks good to me! I'm a pull guy too, I just love too pull it! LOL Seroius tho I feel that I can see better and focus on my puddle when I pull, and I know it puts more heat into your base metal, but i'll make up for it with stick out and travel speed on the thinner stuff, or a little fine tuning. But for a hobbyist, your welds look great!Last edited by weldermike; 10-28-2012 at 04:22 PM.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Just to confuse you more, with solid wire mig, we teach the push technique over the drag technique.Looks decent. I'd like to see you tighten up your movements a bit more myself. That will get those ripples a bit closer together and avoid gaps at the toes of the weld in a few spots.Looks like you need to slow down a bit in a few of those beads. If your "dimes" have a point to them and start looking like arrows rather than round, that's a sign your travel speed could slow down a bit..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW is correct. When mig welding with solid wire you want to use a push technique. When stick welding you use a pull technique.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWJust to confuse you more, with solid wire mig, we teach the push technique over the drag technique..
Reply:Turn the output power level up, they look a touch on the cold side to me, especially at the start of the weld.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:From what I have read, Push with 75/25 and pull with CO2. When welding both push and pull seems to be fine but I usually keep close to 90deg travel angle.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Try grinding off the rust and mill scale before starting to weld...........you will like the results!Bgbkwndo.
Reply:Thanks for all the comments. For some reason, slowing down is an incredibly difficult thing to do. Originally Posted by weldermikeSeroius tho I feel that I can see better and focus on my puddle when I pull, and I know it puts more heat into your base metal, but i'll make up for it with stick out and travel speed on the thinner stuff, or a little fine tuning. But for a hobbyist, your welds look great!
Reply:Not really, though that could be part of it. When I say "tighten up your movements a bit more" I mean to get you circles or what ever pattern you are using closer together.Lets look at it this way...  Lets say that in your weld, you made 20 circles to go 3". Instead, make 20 circles and go only say 1". Your circles will be 3x closer together. instead of  ...)...)...)...)...) you end up with ))))) if that makes sense. In many cases this may mean you need to go "faster" with your circles and may or may not have to increase your travel speed to compensate for the way the puddle is reacting.I like to do a demo to show students different motions. I'll do 1/3 of a plate with the circle or "e" pattern, 1/3 with the C or zig zag pattern, and 1/3 with no motions at all. My travel speed changes with each motion I'm using, but the results on the plate all look almost exactly the same. I need to weld much faster with the circular pattern, and slowest with the straight stringer with no motion at all. Most times I personally tend to either use the C pattern or just run straight stringers with no motion depending on the joint configuration. That just works best for me and allows me to move at a comfortable rate of travel. On bigger material where I need to lay in more metal, then I tend to use more of a circular or figure 8 motion to get the buildup I need with the wire size I normally have in the machine. I still keep my motions tight however, so I get a bunch of close spaced ripples rather than what you have.The biggest place I find students usually need to work on tightening up their motions is when they get to vertical. They are so worried about the metal dripping, that they over compensate. Part of this comes from the habits they learned earlier. Students who have a tendency to make large "open" motions in flat/horizontal, tend to be worse when they hit vertical than students who already are used to making nice tight motions.Overall your beads aren't bad at all. They just need a little bit of tweaking to get them better..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNot really, though that could be part of it. When I say "tighten up your movements a bit more" I mean to get you circles or what ever pattern you are using closer together.Lets look at it this way...  Lets say that in your weld, you made 20 circles to go 3". Instead, make 20 circles and go only say 1". Your circles will be 3x closer together. instead of  ...)...)...)...)...) you end up with ))))) if that makes sense. In many cases this may mean you need to go "faster" with your circles and may or may not have to increase your travel speed to compensate for the way the puddle is reacting.I like to do a demo to show students different motions. I'll do 1/3 of a plate with the circle or "e" pattern, 1/3 with the C or zig zag pattern, and 1/3 with no motions at all. My travel speed changes with each motion I'm using, but the results on the plate all look almost exactly the same. I need to weld much faster with the circular pattern, and slowest with the straight stringer with no motion at all. Most times I personally tend to either use the C pattern or just run straight stringers with no motion depending on the joint configuration. That just works best for me and allows me to move at a comfortable rate of travel. On bigger material where I need to lay in more metal, then I tend to use more of a circular or figure 8 motion to get the buildup I need with the wire size I normally have in the machine. I still keep my motions tight however, so I get a bunch of close spaced ripples rather than what you have.The biggest place I find students usually need to work on tightening up their motions is when they get to vertical. They are so worried about the metal dripping, that they over compensate. Part of this comes from the habits they learned earlier. Students who have a tendency to make large "open" motions in flat/horizontal, tend to be worse when they hit vertical than students who already are used to making nice tight motions.Overall your beads aren't bad at all. They just need a little bit of tweaking to get them better.
Reply:It will change your amperage!I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:The reason you find it hard to slow down is probably because you are not used to looking at the puddle and it tends to look like it is about to burn a hole through the metal when it is not.   1/4" plate is real tough to burn through with mig.   Actually try to burn through that plate and see how much it takes.  that will make you more comfortable with the arcFor vertical  weld up for thick metal and down for sheet metal.       You can go either way on both but the are the best way to start.  I like to do a triangle motion down on thick when I have a deep root as I can really push the filler deep into the joint (heat rises and keeps it that much hotter).  For example welding some 2"  1/4" wall tube to flat plate there is a deep root groove because of the rounded corners of square tube.Last edited by soutthpaw; 10-29-2012 at 05:48 PM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by stan921That makes total sense. ThanksI really haven't tried much vertical. Should you weld up or down? The close motions make sense as well.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawThe reason you find it hard to slow down is probably because you are not used to looking at the puddle and it tends to look like it is about to burn a hole through the metal when it is not.   1/4" plate is real tough to burn through with mig.   Actually try to burn through that plate and see how much it takes.  that will make you more comfortable with the arcFor vertical  weld up for thick metal and down for sheet metal.       You can go either way on both but the are the best way to start.  I like to do a triangle motion down on thick when I have a deep root as I can really push the filler deep into the joint (heat rises and keeps it that much hotter).  For example welding some 2"  1/4" wall tube to flat plate there is a deep root groove because of the rounded corners of square tube.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeShow us!
Reply:Here's a uphill migweld with a quick tight oval pattern. Tight and quick. Attached ImagesI hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Are you talking about this pict? Attached Images.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Honestly Southpaw that bead looks like crap. I'll put Mikes bead up against yours as far as penetration is concerned. You simply do not get good penetration going downhill with mig. I'd like to see Mikes a bit tighter myself also, but then I'm a perfectionist with these things.Your pattern is too loose. You had to do that to stay ahead of the puddle. It's very erratic and I see several spots where it looks like you either got undercutting at the edge, or simply didn't get the bead to connect from one side to the next leaving a "gap" between your triangles. This is not the right way to do a structural weld..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWHonestly Southpaw that bead looks like crap. I'll put Mikes bead up against yours as far as penetration is concerned. You simply do not get good penetration going downhill with mig. I'd like to see Mikes a bit tighter myself also, but then I'm a perfectionist with these things.Your pattern is too loose. You had to do that to stay ahead of the puddle. It's very erratic and I see several spots where it looks like you either got undercutting at the edge, or simply didn't get the bead to connect from one side to the next leaving a "gap" between your triangles. This is not the right way to do a structural weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNot really, though that could be part of it. When I say "tighten up your movements a bit more" I mean to get you circles or what ever pattern you are using closer together.Lets look at it this way...  Lets say that in your weld, you made 20 circles to go 3". Instead, make 20 circles and go only say 1". Your circles will be 3x closer together. instead of  ...)...)...)...)...) you end up with ))))) if that makes sense. In many cases this may mean you need to go "faster" with your circles and may or may not have to increase your travel speed to compensate for the way the puddle is reacting.I like to do a demo to show students different motions. I'll do 1/3 of a plate with the circle or "e" pattern, 1/3 with the C or zig zag pattern, and 1/3 with no motions at all. My travel speed changes with each motion I'm using, but the results on the plate all look almost exactly the same. I need to weld much faster with the circular pattern, and slowest with the straight stringer with no motion at all. Most times I personally tend to either use the C pattern or just run straight stringers with no motion depending on the joint configuration. That just works best for me and allows me to move at a comfortable rate of travel. On bigger material where I need to lay in more metal, then I tend to use more of a circular or figure 8 motion to get the buildup I need with the wire size I normally have in the machine. I still keep my motions tight however, so I get a bunch of close spaced ripples rather than what you have.The biggest place I find students usually need to work on tightening up their motions is when they get to vertical. They are so worried about the metal dripping, that they over compensate. Part of this comes from the habits they learned earlier. Students who have a tendency to make large "open" motions in flat/horizontal, tend to be worse when they hit vertical than students who already are used to making nice tight motions.Overall your beads aren't bad at all. They just need a little bit of tweaking to get them better.
Reply:Sorry I couldn't reply earlier due to the storm and the power outage...Most of our stuff is one on one. Occasionally if two or three guys are ready to do the same weld, they'll all try to watch, but our booths are very small and it's tough to position yourself so several can see what you are doing. Unfortunately the way they have the weld lab laid out there isn't any machines that can be run out to be used in the middle of the room where everyone can watch. Many times I actually have to stand in a very awkward position to weld where I can't really see well, just so the student can see better when I do a demo. Usually that means I end up with one side that doesn't wet in as well as I'd like as I'm not straight on to the weld when I run it.I'd have loved to see decent weld picts when I was trying to learn. Most of the youtube vids I've seen really don't show the puddle well. At least what they show isn't what I personally see..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:How you guys came out OK after the storm...that was one bad*ss "Category 1".  We used to live on the Gulf Coast and it rivals nearly anything we saw down there.
Reply:Could have been a lot worse. Expected a lot more rain. Most went south and west of me. Happy to have seen that. I have a lot of new dirt work I did lately and was afraid I'd loose it all when it washed away. We've had a lot worse rain storms here this year. Last hurricane was a lot worse as far as rain was concerned, but nowhere near as much wind as this time.Been without power since 7:45 Monday night. Just got power back finally. Almost 94+ hours. Worst outage we've had. Pretty much have spent the last few days baby sitting the small genny. Small tank needs to get refueled every hour! That will get fixed soon. ( Josh If you read this, we need to talk about hooking up...  )We didn't do too bad at the house. One tree down from the neighbors property overhanging our old shed. It's about a 12" tree and it hung up in out big sycamore. If I hadn't moved the shed forward about 6' when we dug for the foundation for the new shed it would have been speared good. One customer of mine lost 12-15 trees 6"-18" in diameter. She lucked out in that the neighbors 2 big trees that came down went away from her place. Each was more than 18" across.She has a house on Long Beach Island in Jersey. Still can't get down onto the island yet. Last I heard this morning, they were getting everyone who was still on the island off due to gas leaks. She saw the roof of her house in one newspaper pict. Looks like it's still there.  No idea how deep the flooding was or if the house is still on the foundation ( though we believe it still is from the pict).I'll post a few picts maybe tomorrow of my place and her big trees that came down. I haven't had the time to go over there yet. I'll also post picts when we get down to LBI and assess the house damages there..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald ReaganIt's really sad to see all the damage and folks in such bad shape.  My heart goes out to all of you; New Jersey, New York, inland, etc.  Reminds me of Katrina.  It'll be a long time rebuilding....