what am i doing wrong? .050 5052 melting away

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Im trying to build some trays for work and get better with my machine, but I am having a hard time welding without burning thru. My machine is a Dynasty 200DX so I think the equipment can weld .050. The problem I am having is the sides of the tray melting inward on themselves instead of melting toward themselves and creating a puddle. Im set at 70A controlled with the pedal and 70% balance, 100 Freqs. Any advice?
Reply:Fitup doesn't look like how I would set an outside corner up. Rather than but it tight like you are and try to blow thru the solid material or just blob filler on the surface, I prefer to set things up so the inside corners just touch leaving you a V to fill with filler.With stuff like this I prefer to start my arc on the filler and use this to forma puddle and bridge the two pieces. I hesitate just briefly so I know I get the puddle to melt the base material and then move down the joint normally. Alum tends to "hump" up when the puddle forms and this tends to pull material away from an edge if you don't have filler ready to go in. It's one of the harder things students have to work on when they move to joints with open edges like T's and outside corners. Really thin material doesn't help..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:It doesn't look like you wire brushed the surfaces before attempting to weld.  Improperly prepared material surfaces will make it hard or impossible to form a good puddle/bead.Did you wipe down the material with acetone or alcohol?Gas and flow rate?  Tungsten size?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Ill try setting up a V with the inside corners and melting the filler into the base, havn't tried that yet. I was wire brushing and wiping with acetone, but I gave up when I wasn't getting the two pieces to form a puddle together. I was also using 1/16 tungsten and switched to .040 to see if that would help.
Reply:Originally Posted by 74pontiacIll try setting up a V with the inside corners and melting the filler into the base, havn't tried that yet. I was wire brushing and wiping with acetone, but I gave up when I wasn't getting the two pieces to form a puddle together. I was also using 1/16 tungsten and switched to .040 to see if that would help.
Reply:Looks like gas issue to me.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by 74pontiacIll try setting up a V with the inside corners and melting the filler into the base, havn't tried that yet.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255Looks like gas issue to me.
Reply:Ill try the 3/32 tungsten and lower the gas a little. I think Im at 15 cfh now. I tried mating the inside corners, but still have the meltback problem. Im going to buy a 90 degree clamp to help hold the pieces together also. I dont the the Dynasty 200dx will do triwave, but im not familiar with it anyway.
Reply:The dynasty may have different AC waveshape depending on how old it is.  Aluminum does wierd stuff w gas.  If your coverage is good with 100% Argon and you don't dip, even if your control is bad, you shouldn't be seeing that black color.  With bad coverage, the puddle acts strange also.  Makes it tough to get a good puddle and add rod.  Something's gone awry.  Post a pic of a bead on a piece of flat stock.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by 74pontiacIll try the 3/32 tungsten and lower the gas a little. I think Im at 15 cfh now. I tried mating the inside corners, but still have the meltback problem. Im going to buy a 90 degree clamp to help hold the pieces together also. I dont the the Dynasty 200dx will do triwave, but im not familiar with it anyway.
Reply:Yes, I have the blue lightning acr start. Thanks for the info, I will change to TriWave and see if it helps the melting problem I have.
Reply:Can u post a pic of a bead on a flat piece, same setup?TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Aluminum tends to run away like that. Its not like SS where it tends to wash together, you have to force it with the rod like DSW is talking about. Thin material might be tough until you get the hang of it. Might try a 2" weld on a "back step" for trays, to prevent warpage and make give heat a chance to dissipate. Look up back step method, it usefull on thin stuff.Constant Current Weldor.
Reply:Ill look up the "back step method" and try that. I bought a new clamp to help hold my material at a 90 degree angle and I was able to get a real good fit up to make some tacks to hold it together. With the fit up good and tight I figured out that having it clean by using the stainless brush and acetone helped  out a lot also. I didn't spend much time making the trays because when I went to go see where the "triwave" setting was on the dynasty the menu looked strange with the options. Im hoping someone with experience on the Dynasty 200DX can help me out because the machine is under warranty. Here are some pics of what I did. This is a bead on flat piece. I used 4043 filler to run it. I dont have much practice with it, but it shows how the machine is set up. 80A, 15CFH argon, 115hz, 77% balance. With the tight fit I was able to get the corners to melt together. Here is the menu options I have. I didn't see anything to adjust the ac wave and the options didnt seem normal.
Reply:Everything is right on. Now when you keep pushing the gas/dig button, you see Ac 559, right? That is actually SSq(soft square wave). Turn the knob to scroll until you see Ac Sin(sine), then Ac tri(triwave). Stop there and Pres "A" and then "Gas Dig" again to get back to main screen. When you want to go back to SoftSquareWave, Press "A", then "Gas/Dig" again in that order. You will see tun 094, keep pressing gas/dig until Ac tri appears, and rotate knob again to get to Ac SSq. Then Press "A"  followed with "gas/dig" to return to main screen. After a while it will be second nature. Don't be shy, if you screw everything up you can do a cold start reset to get back to factory default parameters which actually are pretty good. I learned that early on. The instructions for that are in the book.From looking back at your welds, I see them as too cold and with too long of an arc. Grind your tungsten to a razor sharp edge and a pencil shaped taper, just like you would steel. Support both your torch hand and filler hand on the sides of your assembly to keep them steady, and strike a hot arc tight in close. The seam should close up. Most people get scared and just barely strike and arc and barely melt anything until it is too late and the metal is oversaturated with heat. You need to outsmart the metal, hit it hard and move on.Here is the wierd part. You can play with your blue lightning arc start for better starts. My machines actually like the .062 tungsten setting with 3/32 tungstens. And also that higher freq setting will allow you to turn up your amps for a greater punch to your starts. If all else fails, you can do like DSW says and lay your rod down and strike your arc on that and if will flow right into your joint. Don't tell him but I tried it on soda cans and it is magic. Last edited by shovelon; 10-08-2014 at 12:15 PM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Cool, Ill keep playing around with the settings. What are your thoughts on the "Chemical tungsten sharpener". To me it seems to work quick, but hard to get the sharp point you are talking about. Are you just using a bench grinder?
Reply:Problem I see is your arc length is inconsistent, your material isn't cleaned/prepped properly, and you may have an issue with gas coverage. You can't have your tungsten stick out too far and I highly recommend AGAINST a gas lens for aluminum. Make sure all your gas connections are tight and it's 100% Argon.Second thought; (shot in the dark really but had happened to me in the past) if it happens to be a new gas bottle, I have gotten a bad bottle of shielding gas before. Wreaks havoc like you wouldn't believe.-Hillbilly
Reply:Originally Posted by 74pontiacCool, Ill keep playing around with the settings. What are your thoughts on the "Chemical tungsten sharpener". To me it seems to work quick, but hard to get the sharp point you are talking about. Are you just using a bench grinder?
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly2008Problem I see is your arc length is inconsistent, your material isn't cleaned/prepped properly, and you may have an issue with gas coverage. You can't have your tungsten stick out too far and I highly recommend AGAINST a gas lens for aluminum. Make sure all your gas connections are tight and it's 100% Argon.Second thought; (shot in the dark really but had happened to me in the past) if it happens to be a new gas bottle, I have gotten a bad bottle of shielding gas before. Wreaks havoc like you wouldn't believe.-Hillbilly
Reply:It's gonna be the gas.  Look at my old thread. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...light=AluminumDo you have gas coming out of the torch?Show a pic of your torch disassembled and assembled.  Like an exploded view.  If it looks good and you're getting flow, you've gotta change the bottle.  As seen in above thread, make a swirl on a clean piece of aluminum with no filler.  If there's any black, there's incorrect gas coverage.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Here's another.  Proof I don't learn from my own mistakes.  http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...uminum+problemSee post #48.  Look familiar?Last edited by Drf255; 10-09-2014 at 04:59 AM.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum