Second attempt at stainless

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Well my first attempt on some thin stainless didn't go well, but I like the thick stuff.More minibike stuff .a look at the welds.Constructive critisim is welcome.Last edited by Steelwill; 12-10-2012 at 09:17 PM.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:I don't think your welds look too shabby.   Obviously you're not a professional welder, right?  If that were my project, I'd be pretty happy.  Im also not a "pro" at welding.  What welder, settings, elctrode or wire did you use for the project?Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Too hot or not enough gas coverage. The welds should not look dirty and grey like they do there. You should have a nice "rainbow" to stainless welds. The beads also look "muddy" and indistinct, a typical look for welds run too hot or too slow. Your ripples/dips should look nice and crisp..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Looks too hot Will, but considering its your first attempts its not that bad!I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Super Arc it 3 1/2" 1/8" thick pipe don't know the grade of stainless 3/32 Ceriated tungsten not sure on the amps was using the pedal on my everlast. Originally Posted by DSWToo hot or not enough gas coverage. The welds should not look dirty and grey like they do there. You should have a nice "rainbow" to stainless welds. The beads also look "muddy" and indistinct, a typical look for welds run too hot or too slow. Your ripples/dips should look nice and crisp.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeLooks too hot Will, but considering its your first attempts its not that bad!
Reply:you need a jumbo gas lens and lots of argon if you want color on stainless, otherwise get a stainless wire wheel or a tiger disc and it shines up real nice
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillI knew they didn't look good. With stainless is there a way to tell while welding that you are running to hot? The guy gave me quite a few pieces to mess with I will run a larger cup and kick up the gas and see what I get.
Reply:Sorry about not listing the spec. 3/32 Ceriated tungsten 1/8 stainless as far as amps I was using the pedal not sure what amps I was running there is not way to set the max amps on my machine.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:Tried a little more. same settings.Tried running a little colder.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:Probably a really silly question, but you are using stainless filler right?.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Way too hot. V out the, pieces.
Reply:DC negative? Do you have a good ground? Hole in your hose? Contaminated tungsten? These are possible reasons for the dark color. What amp are you at?
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGyou need a jumbo gas lens and lots of argon if you want color on stainless, otherwise get a stainless wire wheel or a tiger disc and it shines up real nice
Reply:you have to keep the end of your wire in the argon stream, if you pull it out to readjust yourself you done oxidized the end and you get all that grey and black. What type of cup are you using, straight cups are not too great on alloys.What's your argon setting?don't dip on stainless, weld over the wire, set it down and leave it. try walking the cup
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterReally?I must be doing something wrong with my little # 5 cup then.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWProbably a really silly question, but you are using stainless filler right?
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillYes it's es308L
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGes?
Reply:Looks too cold to me, low amps cause you to weld slow and it cooks the stainless. Try welding hotter/faster.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Read most of the replies, but looked at what your attempting and if that is 304 you can and I would start at the edge of the cap and fuse the cap on with NO filler.......Purge the inside with argon and use a large enough cup to keep the weld covered...kinda large and the travel speed will more than likely bring the hot weld out of the gas coverage......You might want to make a sheet metal canoe to get more gas coverage.but that's what I would do.......Probably come out looking great.....Won't work unless it's 304  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:This is 304 and I fused it the same way I described above.......A rotary table works great if you can get one but 304 fuses good and shouldn't crack.......that cap is pretty thick and could be thinner.......Maybe 10 ga....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:B_C, thats damn pretty!  Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGyep, you're doing it wrong, glad I could help!
Reply:I picked up some 16ga drops from my steel supplier messing around last night it is a bead I ran last night.16ga stainless don't know what grade3/32 red tungsten.045 er308 fillerabout 100 ampsgas at 11Lpm ( flow meter which came with the welder)FrontBack sideWill   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .Originally Posted by B_CThis is 304 and I fused it the same way I described above.......A rotary table works great if you can get one but 304 fuses good and shouldn't crack.......that cap is pretty thick and could be thinner.......Maybe 10 ga....
Reply:Welding stainless with a REALLY GOOD fit up and no filler is about as e-z as it gets....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Picked up a gas lense set up and ran a few beads on my lunch break.#7 cup gas lense 16 Ga stainless11 Lpm 100% argonabout 90 ampsWill   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterWelding stainless with a REALLY GOOD fit up and no filler is about as e-z as it gets....zap!
Reply:Your weld beads doesn't look so bad, actualy its really weird but your welds look better on you cylinder with capping than on flat sheets (wich suppose to be easier) it still good that you understand how to move on round pieces!Your welds could be fine in a stainless raillings and and wall rail fab shop where the important is fill the joint and leave not holes or cratere because everythings is buffed and polished.One thing, on a cylinder capping like your first picture, peoples that said to weld with fusion first and then an other pass with filler are correct, but it can also help to make you end caps 1/8 larger than the diameter of your tube, so if you have to clean your welds at the end of the job you won't leave cratere and holes, the edge will be perfect!Last things, practice on some T joints, they are the easiest joint to weld, in welding schools, teachers start often students with this!Last edited by LayoutMan; 12-21-2012 at 02:30 PM.Calculator > Bevel Square
Reply:There's really no reason to dip stainless, if you pull the end of the wire out of the argon stream you're gonna get oxidation on it and that stuff doesn't flow good. Try moving your tungsten side to side like a stick rod weave and just leave the wire sit, weld over it. Edit: not necessarily weld over top of it, but leave it at the leading edge of the puddle.Last edited by TimmyTIG; 12-21-2012 at 05:34 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterWelding stainless with a REALLY GOOD fit up and no filler is about as e-z as it gets....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillPicked up a gas lense set up and ran a few beads on my lunch break.#7 cup gas lense 16 Ga stainless11 Lpm 100% argonabout 90 amps
Reply:I had the same problem with my stainless welds coming out gray. I was welding 3/16" 304, setting were using Miller's Calculator which was: 3/32 2% ceriated, #4 cup with gas lens, 1/8" filler ( I only had 3/32 filler 308), 175 amps, and 13 cfh. I had to move pretty fast since I don't have a foot pedal (switch only) to get this results:On the next time around, I dropped my amps 10-18 and upped the argon (I don't remember how much) and got this:
Reply:If I can hide from my family today I will run some more beads. I'll use the switch and run a few at different amps to see what happens.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:With 16G SS I usually use about 55amps with filler.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugWith 16G SS I usually use about 55amps with filler.
Reply:If you can get a nice fit you could weld that with 45 amps and no filler.Back purging will prevent the sugaring on back side. Get a splitter for your gas tank and stick a gas hose into tube your gonna weld and tape it shut. You will always have some small leak, if not, you might get some overpressure on inside which blows molten metal away from weld, but ii have never really experienced this. You can just tape the tube shut with some painterstape.Keep in mind that argon is heavier than air, so it is best to have your weld area on bottom. A well shielded not to hot weld will be somewhat shiny with salmon discoloration.Also switch to 1/16 tungstenLast edited by Sytze; 12-24-2012 at 01:49 PM.
Reply:Just do this.or this See it's easy Last edited by MikeGyver; 12-24-2012 at 09:08 PM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:New guy to forum ^^^^ Very nice work! These guys really know what they are talking about! 1/16th tungstens are perfect for s/s sheet metal 20-14 ga. Smaller arc diameter and more precise heat input. One of the greatest things about s/s IMO is the strength of fusion welds compared to ferrous steels and alum. Remember that stainless takes a less amps to weld than other materials of the same thknss. Everyone likes to weld downhill, but when possible with stainless I like to weld uphill to keep the argon flowing down over the weld. I dont know how much it helps as i am far from a master weldor, but in theory it should help. Also as mentioned above, I Iike to work very quickly because heat build up is very bad especially on sheet and thin wall tube.Keep at and you'll have it down in no time.-Rob
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverJust do this.
Reply:It is kind of hard to tell in the crappy picture because the weld is so reflective, but it's actually flat faced, not concave or convex. You're right about a very convex weld being too 'thin' and potentially problematic, which is why I don't do them.I've probably done hundreds of these V-band welds in the last half year and I shoot for a flat or very slightly convex fillet. You don't need to add filler to do this, just melt off more of the V-band flange to act as filler. It allows you to weld at a higher travel speed and with alot less heat input and results in a better looking weld than going slower to add wire. It also results in a much smaller heat affected zone which retains more of the the parent metal's properties (notice your HAZ is about 100 times wider than mine, and gray, while mine is essentially non existant and very reflective and still very rust resistant). The welds are run hot for excellent fusion and at very high travel speed, a 10" weld in under 30 seconds or so, which is probably easily 3 times faster than yours.Try it, your welds might turn out alot shinier and not as gray. I started where you're at and didn't like the results so I tried something new and perfected this method. Most of these stainless welds are quite literally flawless in mechanical properties and appearance, and I'm a tough critic. I'll get some real pictures with my camera (not my old phone) the next time I do them.Last edited by MikeGyver; 12-25-2012 at 06:37 PM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverJust do this.or this See it's easy
Reply:It's weird where I start the weld and were I end it have the right color. So I'm thinking it's too much heat.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillIt's weird where I start the weld and were I end it have the right color. So I'm thinking it's too much heat.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverThat's because where you end you are providing longer gas coverage (assuming you're postflowing argon and holding the torch still after welding as the metal is cooling, if you do this the end will always be colorful.)Welding stainless and getting colors is actually very easy if you follow the few rules that apply universally. I didn't learn it from Buck the welder of 40 years who may be able to do it but doesnt know [i]why[i/] it happens, I figured it out myself. I learned the physics of why welds turn different colors from scientific sources online and with that knowledge it's just a matter of somehow applying everything to your welding style. I could literally have you making great looking shiney colorful welds in an hour if you have the mechanics of tig welding down.Here's the single biggest tip I can give you for the point you're at now. Only weld in segments as wide as your cup. If you're using a #7 cup don't make a weld longer than 1/2". Hold the torch perfectly still after your stitch weld and aim it at the "center of heat" and let it postflow for 15 seconds. Don't wave the torch around or anything like that, if you lose gas coverage for a tiny fraction of a second the oxide will have already formed and it'll be too late.This will help you see what's going on then just learn to adapt this to make longer welds.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverIt is kind of hard to tell in the crappy picture because the weld is so reflective, but it's actually flat faced, not concave or convex. You're right about a very convex weld being too 'thin' and potentially problematic, which is why I don't do them.I've probably done hundreds of these V-band welds in the last half year and I shoot for a flat or very slightly convex fillet. You don't need to add filler to do this, just melt off more of the V-band flange to act as filler. It allows you to weld at a higher travel speed and with alot less heat input and results in a better looking weld than going slower to add wire. It also results in a much smaller heat affected zone which retains more of the the parent metal's properties (notice your HAZ is about 100 times wider than mine, and gray, while mine is essentially non existant and very reflective and still very rust resistant). The welds are run hot for excellent fusion and at very high travel speed, a 10" weld in under 30 seconds or so, which is probably easily 3 times faster than yours.Try it, your welds might turn out alot shinier and not as gray. I started where you're at and didn't like the results so I tried something new and perfected this method. Most of these stainless welds are quite literally flawless in mechanical properties and appearance, and I'm a tough critic. I'll get some real pictures with my camera (not my old phone) the next time I do them.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTI have done the autogenous welds before but like I mentioned they almost always cause problems. Lots of my work is repair work and many of the repairs is of autogenous stainless welds that have cracked. I just simply don't and can't trust them.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverStrange, in the 6+ years ive worked in the performance automotive and turbo industry I've never once had a lap joint like these fail, or even heard of one for that matter.A autogeneous lap joint isn't like an autogeneous butt joint since you're melting off a portion of the front edge which acts just like filler and provides the desired fillet profile. A butt joint on the other hand can be prone to issues if the weld area become thinner than the parent metal or adequate penetration isn't achieved. At the turbo place I worked for 5 years we did many thousands of butt welds and vband lap welds on 16awg and thinner tubing and never had problems and filler was only used when the weld became low or thinner than the tubing wall thickness. Im sure a lot of it's in the details of how it's being done too.I have a pretty good understanding of the mechanics and forces that cause welds to fail and I wouldn't send any of our high dollar/high quality products out if I was completely confident in their soundness to serve their intended prupose.
Reply:Some small flanges I did for the semi conductor guy.......1.75 in dia.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock