Bench Grinder/Tungsten Sharpening

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so i got a few choices for a bench grinder. my needs/desires right now are pointing to something that can be used to sharpen tungstens (mostly 2% Thoriated) and for "metal persuasion and reconfiguration". what are your guys' ideas? i currently have access to a Delta (i THINK it's 3/4 HP, but i'm not sure), with 60 and 120 grit wheels. i understand that Tungsten requires it's own special wheel, but what kind of material do i need? i doubt the aluminum oxide will work well for this. i'd like to stay within $150 and 3/4 HP+ if possible. any input is appreciated.Later,AndyP.S. here is a link to other replies on this topic...http://microzone.us/weldingforum/index.php?topic=53.0
Reply:All I did was buy a $25 Home Supply Store special and put decent wheels on it. You don't need power to sharpen tungstens. Just get a good pedestal/bench grinder for the grunt work.>>>"P.S. here is a link to other replies on this topic..."<<<  I just checked, there are no other replies at this time...is ya phishing Andy ??...LOLAnything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Hahahaa...that was mean but funny. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I'm to old and brittle to be mean...lolBesides, if I was any other way you'd think it was an imposter...lolAnything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:On topic: I use a basic grinder and dedicate one wheel only, with a sign that reads, " Tungsten grinding device only!"   Off topic: yes, I never knew brittle to be synonymous with mean. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by olddadI'm to old and brittle to be mean...
Reply:I use a medium wheel for shaping and a fine wheel to polish the scratches out. If I dip or touch my filler I will grind it initially on my big grinder on the side of the wheel. I don't use a lot of pressure on my dedicated grinder, that just heats them up for no good reason.If I had a decent belt sander that I could dedicate for tungstens I'd go that route. I just can't justify the money as a tungsten sharpener only.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:hmmm... let's just say i have an old belt grinder that i could dedicate to tungsten sharpening  (i still plan on getting the grinder anyway, but then i wouldn't have to swap sheels all the time)... what kind of belt/abrasive(s) would i need? obviously, finer is better, but once again, is there any that are better than others when it comes to durability and better finished product?Later,Andy
Reply:i use a belt sander to sharpen tungsten and but i sharpen it on a stone the first time or if it gets real dull or messed up
Reply:I have a special tooth I use when not at the shop. lolTry using the drill technique ..... once you get a set up.Zap showed us that a while back.I guess that trick has been around since Moby Dick was a minnow. weld it like you own it
Reply:now i have thought of another question (imagine that  )... do i need to only dedicate the FINAL finisher to tungsten only, or is it a requirement that i only use the finishers for tungsten? the reason i ask is due to scubaholic mentioning that he uses a grinder to rough his tungstens in, then uses a belt sander to finish them off. do i need to dedicate both the grinder wheel AND belt sander to this task, or just the belt sander? it makes sense to dedicate the belt sander only, but i wanna make sure.thanks!Later,Andy
Reply:If you can find an old or a cheap drill doctor, they work pretty slick for a tungsten sharpener.  That diamond wheel makes short work of pointing the tungsten
Reply:Take the guard off..Stand behind the wheel...Use the top of the stone and grind away from you..And be sure to shut it off when done.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterTake the guard off..Stand behind the wheel...Use the top of the stone and grind away from you..And be sure to shut it off when done.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by lewrayOr you might just get caught up in it
Reply:for those of us sometimes buggered up, you have to get it hot enough to strike an arc, hold that arc until the contaminated end melts and quickly shake or knock off the unwanted globule before grinding.
Reply:i noticed Miller's webiste had mentioned something called an MSDS...  ... i have no idea what that could be for... lol... anyway, they said to follow the MFR's reccomendations for grinding the Thoriated Tungstens due to the radioactive content. i understand that this is such a minute amount of radiation that i, personally, don't even care that it's there. however, due to me opening my mouth, i know my fiance is not as in-sensitive to such matters and would like me to be as safe as possible in regards to these kinds of hazards. what should i be doing to protect myself from the dust? is a shop-vac with the exhaust blowing out the shop door adequate to keep myself from glowing at night?Later,Andy
Reply:Material Safety Data Sheet. I don't think you want to be breathing too much tungsten dust, although nobody ever worries about it.I will tell you this: if you have a special wheel designated for sharpening tungsten, you don't want to contaminate it with a bunch of stainless or aluminum, or pretty much any thing else.
Reply:They make special machines for sharpening tungstens. You can Google that.They cost about $170 because they use very precision bearings with almost no wobble.But Tungstens should not be ground on a grinding wheel because it is too rough of a finish.The angle should be about 70º which looks like a sharpenened pencil.The best finish is obtained with a sanding disk #120 0r 100 grit. Blue zirconium really lasts. Rotate the tungsten while sanding. It should be sanded parallel not transverse to the length of the Tungsten. The point will last much longer, Look at the tip sometime with a magnifying glass and you will see what i mean. And if you have a small buffing wheel buff the surface of the point and the tip will last even longer. I would keep the sanding of Tungstens confined to a seperate area of the shop. The particles are heavier than lead but you do not want to ingest them. so put plastic around the area to confine the particles. Hold your breath while you sand, then step away from the area to decrease your exposure. and of coarse have your mask on. I like to sharpen several at once. Do not sharpen both ends otherwise the color code will be obliterated.TWO hospital labs have already told me the radioactive level (listed on the box) is the same as dirt. So lets not get into that discussion.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 12-27-2007 at 04:00 PM.
Reply:Hey guys,I haven't noticed any mention of the use of "green" wheels for sharpening tungsten. I have a dedicated small grinder just for my sharpening and do as olddad, use a med & fine green wheel to dress. I have a large grinder in the machine shop I dress my tungsten carbide lathe cutters and one day tried the green wheels with my TIG tungsten rods. Did a nice job, so I use them...DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:One more thought about those tungsten grinders. If you see one and think about spending that much money, MAKE SURE it can sharpen a short 2 inch long tungsten, or DON"T BUY IT.
Reply:I grind everything on my grinder but aluminum and other metals like it,as they gum up the wheel. I have never had an issue with contaminating my weld by using a grinding wheel that was used on steel. Mabye for special "code" welds. I think it is a waste of machinery to dedicate it to only tungsten. Especially for the hobbiest welder.I do not know what wheels I use but as long as it is medium-hard it works.
Reply:to each his own, everyone has their pet peeves.But they do make grinding wheels that are much finer than 120 grit sanding discs
Reply:well... i got bored tonight so i went to the shop to start a new project and to experiment a little. as luck would have it, i needed some scribes for layout and as usual, i didn't have the tool for the job, nor the ambition to go and buy it. this lead me to make a few out of nails. i soon realized that they are similar in size and shape as a tungsten, so i chucked it into the new drill i got for christmas and went to the grinder. i soon found out how easy it is to do this and i have a feeling that this will be my way of making perfectly sharp tungstens, with the correct grind marks (towards the point, rather than around the circumfrance of the shaft). thanks to everyone for your help.Later,Andy
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterTake the guard off..Stand behind the wheel...Use the top of the stone and grind away from you..I used to use a green wheel the Tungsten. I now use Diamond wheel, I've never looked back.They last a long long time and don't make anywhere near the dust of a green wheel.Bought mine off Ebay, for 35GBP (70USD)Do a search of diamond wheel, loads come up.
Reply:Originally Posted by aczellerhmmm... let's just say i have an old belt grinder that i could dedicate to tungsten sharpening  (i still plan on getting the grinder anyway, but then i wouldn't have to swap sheels all the time)... what kind of belt/abrasive(s) would i need? obviously, finer is better, but once again, is there any that are better than others when it comes to durability and better finished product?Later,Andy
Reply:thanks for the replys guys. really appreciate it. my belt sander is only a 3" wide belt, so it pretty easy to find them around my neck of the woods. i have an extra 220 grit belt laying around there somewhere that i am gonna try one of these days. i jsut ordered some free samples from www.diamondground.com today, so i think i'll be good to practice on some real tungsten after i ruin these. lol. Thanks again!Later,Andy
Reply:"I don't think you want to be breathing too much tungsten dust, although nobody ever worries about it."  From a tungsten MSDS - "Effect of Overexposure: Dust, mist and fumes generated during physical or metallurgical treatment may cause mild irritation of the nose and throat. With the exception of two Russian studies that found early signs of pulmonary fibrosis in some workers exposed to tungsten trioxide, tungsten metal and tungsten carbide, most studies have shown tungsten to be toxicologically inert. Skin and eye contact may cause irritation due to abrasive action of the dust. Current scientific evidence indicates no adverse effects are likely from accidental ingestion of small amounts of tungsten."However, the thorium in the electrode is a radioactive element that emits an alpha particle (an ionizing radiation) when the thorium atom decays.  Alpha particles cannot penetrate the dead layer of your skin, so the electrode and electrode dust are not  external radiation hazards.  However, when you inhale the dust when grinding the electrode, the atoms in the dust particles can now emit the alpha particles into the living cells that line your respiratory tract.  Studies associate chronic exposure to ionizing radiation with causing cancer.I usually wear a welding respirator mask when I weld and keep it one when grinding TIG electrodes.TeddCoHTP Microcut 400 & Invertig 160DC  Smith Dual Guard MD-510 OA Rig  Lincoln SP135+  Hobart Stickmate LX 235/160
Reply:Originally Posted by TeddcoI usually wear a welding respirator mask when I weld and keep it one when grinding TIG electrodes.
Reply:Why do you need a dedicated grinder for Tungsten Sharpening ???Newbe asking....
Reply:Originally Posted by kbeitzWhy do you need a dedicated grinder for Tungsten Sharpening ???Newbe asking....
Reply:Rather than fool around with tracking down just the right kind of belt for my belt sander, or just the right kind of wheel for my bench grinder, and try to keep them seperated from other uses, I just went down to Arc Zone, which is not far from my house, and bought a small hand-held tungsten grinder.  It does the job, is easy to use, is always ready when needed with no hassle of changing belts or wheels first and, because of it's specific design, I have no inclination to use it for anything else so it never gets 'contaminated'.   Only drawback was the price, but I could afford it, so I bought it.  I'm happy with it.     Check out www.arc-zone.com and click tungsten grinders.   They have alot of other cool stuff there for TIG welding as well.  I think all they cater to in their business is TIG welding.Last edited by DesertRider33; 01-12-2008 at 10:13 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op