New Steel-to-Aluminum Welding Process for Honda

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New Steel-to-Aluminum Welding Process for HondaThree developments in joining contribute to lighter door panels, better performing vehiclesRobert BrooksWed, 2013-02-20 22:49Honda Motor Co. Ltd. will implement a new welding system it has developed in order to join steel to aluminum, so that the light metal can be used to build outer door panels of the 2014 Acura RLX. That new model becomes available in North America in March 2013. The new method will be extended to cover production of other Honda and Acura models in the future.This new technique follows a Friction Stir Welding method that Honda introduced in 2012 for continuous welding of dissimilar metals (e.g., steel to aluminum) in the production of vehicle subframes.General Motors Corp. also introduced a steel-to-aluminum joining process in 2012, a resistance spot welding technology it developed involving a patented electrode design. Like the new Honda method, GM’s development will allow it to incorporate aluminum in automotive exterior panels for doors, or hoods, lift gates, etc.Honda noted that welding steel and aluminum for external panels called for simultaneous advances in different joining technologies, including methods of preventing electrical corrosion that results from the reactions of different materials, and controlling the thermal deformation that results from the different expansion rates of steel and aluminum.Combining simultaneous developmentsHonda said it made three developments that allowed it to achieve industrial-scale production of aluminum outer door panels.Combining these developments, the automakers said is able to avoid the spot-welding used to form door panels in conventional production, but it is able to do so without replacing its current production lines.Honda’s first, critical development for joining dissimilar materials is the "3D Lock Seam," a structure in which steel and aluminum panels are layered and “hemmed” to create a double seal.Then, it developed a technology that prevents electrical corrosion by using anticorrosive steel for the inner panel and a new form that ensures the gap between the two panels is filled completely with an adhesive agent.Next, it introduced an adhesive agent with a low elastic modulus and optimized the location of the 3D Lock Seam, to control thermal deformation of the material during the joining process.The new production process helps to reduce door panel weights by approximately 17%, according to the developer, compared to standard steel door panels, thus contributing to greater fuel economy.Also, Honda pointed out that reducing weight reduction at the outer side of the vehicle makes it possible to concentrate the point of gravity toward the center of the vehicle, which improves stability in operation.TxDoc's Photos Lincoln SP175 PlusLincoln Power Mig 256Lincoln 250 LX Spool Gun Lincoln Precision Tig 225 Hypertherm 600 KMG 2x72 Belt GrinderBaldor 812RE Grinder
Reply:Its pretty neat stuff but think about how hard it will be to scrap out one of those cars in ten o twenty years.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:pretty cool stuff
Reply:Originally Posted by propanehotrodIts pretty neat stuff but think about how hard it will be to scrap out one of those cars in ten o twenty years.
Reply:With the new adhesives, like used in the auto industry, like Aston Martin, I am wondering which may win out?http://www.caranddriver.com/news/ast...n-db9-car-newsAston claims the DB9's bonded structure is 25 percent lighter than the DB7's and, with 20,650 pound-feet per degree, has double the torsional rigidity. "We don't know of any sports car that's better," says Jeremy Main, Aston's head of product development and motorsport. The frame uses die-cast extruded and stamped components that are bonded or fixed by self-piercing rivets. Body panels, in either aluminum or composites, are fixed to the tub by adhesives. For the first time in a car, Aston uses ultrasonic welding for the upper and lower C-pillars, a technology that's claimed to be 90 percent stronger than conventional spot welding. http://www.youtube.com/v/oWmydudM41c?version=3&hl=en_GBLast edited by TxDoc; 02-21-2013 at 04:41 PM.TxDoc's Photos Lincoln SP175 PlusLincoln Power Mig 256Lincoln 250 LX Spool Gun Lincoln Precision Tig 225 Hypertherm 600 KMG 2x72 Belt GrinderBaldor 812RE Grinder
Reply:High technology joining (fusion) is all well and good until you get in a crash and the local body shop rapes you because they can no longer repair a panel but have to replace an entire assembly.At some point, just about every vehicle sustains crash damage.  The easier it is to repair, the less the repair costs.Think about it.
Reply:I own a body shop and now a days adhesives play a big part in vehicle repairs... this highlights the manufactures use of aluminum to steel but for years now they have been bonding steel to steel, I do it many times... the adhesives are EXPENSIVE.. one of the 3m bonding adhesives that I use is like $68 for 6.5 oz of material and that doesn't even include the special applicator gun necessary or the disposable one shot deal mixing tips.so now when I skin a door I grind the lip off the old skin, separate it from the shell, bond the new skin on and fold over the seem... with the new aluminum door skin the replacement procedure will be just about the same, maybe a different specialty adhesive will be used but otherwise it should be about the same. these new aluminum door skins don't scare me, where the real scary part of aluminum used in cars come into play is when aluminum is used in the structure itself. for example some BMW's use aluminum frame rails... now BMW specifically specifys that an aluminum frame rail can not be repaired, PERIOD... if the frame rail sustains ANY damage at all it needs to be completely replaced... this involves removing the drivetrain and sometimes the dash, and what this really means is that what may have been a normal $3,500 repair on  normal car, on a car like this instead winds up being a $14K repair...  the manufactures really don't care about repair-ability AT ALL, they only care about ease of assy/building the car and reducing there emissions numbers across the board... if the repir process becomes very specialized so be it, in the end this may increase there dealers networks bottom line because more and more specialty stuff like this just means that more and more work will wind up back at the dealer itself... for example for me to fix one of those aluminum framed vehicles, even if I did decide to tackle such an animal, I would still probably wind up shipping the car to BMW to remove the drivetrain and dash, then tow the car back to me, do all the structural and cosmetic repairs, then ship it back to the dealer to re-install everything... this is what most of the big shops do with a situation like this and the insurance companies really have no choice but to pay for thismiller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:they want to design a car that cant be repaired, crash it, total it, insurance replaces with a new car..  car company makes more sales.  your insurance goes up, everyone is happy but the consumer..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:My first thought was adhesives as well. With that being said, I have no idea why they want to join the two metals. Oh well.The hood on my seadoo separated in the heat of Yuma. I had to go buy that expensive epoxy. I used that one use mixing tip. Luckily for me, the family that owns the paint supply house has a guy whose daughter goes to school with my son. I was able to use the gun and bring it back, no charge. WHEW!!!!Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain