Made in the USA???

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This thread is open to all, as I respect the Constitution of the country I live in.Please feel free to express your self openly and with out fear of reprisals, as the First Amendment to the USA Constitution is fully enforce here.Now then to those of you that have bought fine products made in the USA fully backed by its laws and court system, how could you! Don't you understand that when you spend your hard earned Dollars with your LWS house you are helping to support the families of the people who assured you that it was MADE IN THE USA. That when a fine USA company makes a profit that dividends are paid into the retirement accounts of millions of your fellow citizens. That your local reseller, with profits made from your hard earned Dollar hires more employees, who then spend their Dollars in the local economy, lowering the tax burdened on his/her fellow citizens. I say nay to all this, support for the local State and National economy. Send your USA Dollars over seas ware they can do some real good. China has the fastest growing economy in the world and it needs more. With 1,000,000,000,000 people to feed starvation is certain with out you buying inferior. ill supported often dangerous products. It is your duty to turn your back on your neighbors, friends, family, and fellow citizens. You should have what you want NOW!!! At a price the destroys your own economy so you can go to the garage and fix that other POS foreign made thing you couldn't live with out.So lets hear form all of you and your justification for for taking your DOLLARS to a foreign land to buy that crap. I have made a great sum of money using welding machines made in the USA, and when something goes wrong, I go see my neighbor, my friend, my Fellow American, and we fix the problem. Who are you going to see?JimmyLast edited by worldsgreatestwelder; 02-08-2008 at 03:05 PM.Reason: spelling errors and such
Reply:Thank You for that Jimmy...it's a breath of fresh air in this sea of Chinese dung we seem to be floating in !!There is no honor in promoting JUNK !!Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:And all the parts in your Computer were made in the Good'ol US of A.And the Technology was engineered in the Good'ol US of A.And the TV you watch was made in the Good'ol US of ADon't get me wrong here, I wish the UK had as much Patriotism. However if it weren't for "cheap" imports I wouldn't have a 200amp AC/DC TIG, 180amp MIG, 2HP Lathe, 3HP Vertical Mill, 25CFM Compressor etc etc etc. And if they breakdown I will get them fixed cheaply and quickly, because they have a good backup not becuase they are made down the roadAnd they aren't crap either just made a damn sight cheaper than the overpaid under worked, union lead workforce in the UK. And I used to import from the USA and know you guys fill factories with cheap immigrant workers, and Americans too. So don't give me, we pay good money for good products, because we pay good wages, because you don'tAnd the biggest irony is you're all bloody foreigners, bar a few Native Americans, and if it wasn't for the rest of us out here you would be up **** creek without a paddle. Oh sorry looks like you are.PSExpress myself, this is the bloody internet mate you live in a very very small world
Reply:There are many things built better elsewhere, I haven't seen anyone argue that. Chinese welders are for the most part junk. There are some non USA brands (Riland) that I have seen good product evaluations on however. We are not the "end all" to anything but there are some damn fine welding machines coming out of our factories. As for the "foreigner" argument, most don't have a problem with them. The problem we have is illegal immigration. There is a system here that one is expected to follow...no different than me having to follow the law. Illegals cost the working stiff a ton of money and it's gotten bad enough that it's been brought to the forefront. Our current president has priorities other than what the majority wishes for. He's brought the world's ire onto us and it'll take a while to turn that around. As for the "creek" comment, I'm of the belief that you finish what you started. Our current president started a fight that quite possibly shouldn't have happened at the time it did. But with that said, it now has to be seen through to it's conclusion. As for how other countries deal with it, I would think that would be up to the others involved. They have to make that decision. Our paddles are still working for now. Hopefully the Vietnam "get out at all costs" mentality won't take over because they've proven in the past that they will throw the paddles overboard !!Yep, it sure is a small world.Last edited by olddad; 02-08-2008 at 05:45 PM.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Don't have any great brand name welders here in Canada so no loss in patriotism from me. I love Canada and wish we built welders. I may have bought one.My Photos on Flickr
Reply:I buy my machines from the local Welding Supply.  They gave me credit, let me take machines to just "try them out" knowing I probably would not bring them back (buy them).I see better deals for a FEW dollars on Ebone or other places.  I still shop at my LWS.TODAY my local LWS referred 2 jobs to me.  One was a broken snowmobile spindle and the other was a tractor part.  I try to keep my money local, I am a small guy.Shop where you want, for me its my local Welder supply.Most of what I own is Lincoln.  I bought my first machine 20 years ago.  I still have it and have had NO trouble with it.  Then next two were bought about the same time.  I still use them.  What more could a guy ask for?DavidLast edited by David R; 02-08-2008 at 06:02 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I am all for being a Patriot and love this country, I really do. Hands down I believe in this country and there is no better place to live, not by a long-shot. With that said, I am in the process of buying myself a new Miller MIG machine. Am I buying it because it is made in the USA? Nope, not at all. I am buying it because of the name and reputation, period. If the Chinese made one better for near the same price I would buy it from the Chinese. That is my right to buy what I think is best. I own a Dodge truck with a Cummins. I didn't buy it because it is made in the USA, which is probably not exactly true. I am sure many parts on my truck were made south of the border or where ever else in the world. I bought it because to me a Cummins engine is far superior to any other passenger vehicle diesel engine, period. I wish we in the USA made the best of everything at the best price. Fact is we don't. Fact is we have some jacked up labor practices that jack up the price for everyone else to pay and still put out an inferior product in many cases. So buy USA only products and always support the local economy? Can't do it in all cases. Wish I could, but that is just not possible if you intend to spend your money wisely. This open market and open trade is really the best thing going in my opinion. We all benefit from it, competition is a good thing.BrentLincoln 3200HD MIGLincoln AC/DC 225 Stick
Reply:Back in the mid 90's when the economy was good and my buisness was booming I owned and operated a Ford tractor and I beat the crap out of it and it kep on going and made me alot of money but then the CEO of America changed and the economy started to slip rapidly and i started to see more and more cheap tractors from China and Japan like the Kubota. I saw one of my competitors running a Kubota and I thought what an idiot that tractor wont last doing this kind of work. 5 yrs later That tractor still out there doing the same work. 10 yrs later still doing the same work (just not as much to do) but still running and now I feel like the idiot. Honestly when the economy was getting bad if something happened to my Ford theres no way I could afford to buy another one. Now New Holland owns ford.As far as "made in USA" you dont even find that on most American flags anymore and the computer your on was made in China or Japan, I don t beleive there is anyone out there that doesn't own something from China, Japan or Mexico. ya it sucks but its reality.How do we help our local workers when we buy USA products that are made over seas?I know people that work at Lows, Home Depot and stores like that and they dont get paid crap. Have you ever noticed the employee turnover in them stores? Low wages, no bennefits and peanuts for raises. We dont help anyone but large Corps when we pay top dollar for Chineese crap that has a USA name on it. I have too many family members that lost their factory jobs because the Chineese can make it cheaper and my buying made in USA products didn't stop it from happening and now the economy sucks and I cant afford the higher priced Chinese stuff with USA names on it. FYI, Those USA based companies that have their stuff made in Mexico and over seas are raking in billions and the CEO's plus other top officials along with the lobbyist  are making millions and millions of dollars and the hard working US employees are loosing health care and other bennifits along with being asked to take pay cuts and alot of the Unions are pretty much a joke anymore. If thats not bad enough the USA based companies are now allowed to bring their billions in profits from overseas and they dont have to pay taxes on it but guess who does? Thats right the working middle and lower class people like us.So no were are not "unpatriotic" or Schmucks, idiots or some of the other words I cant spell. We are just hard working under paid Americans that are patriotic and try to find leagal ways to better ourselfs, make an extra buck or pickup a hobby and do it with the funds and means that are available to us.So you can call me what you want but I know the one that controls the price of the higher priced chinese stuff is the one that will pay top dollar and will not only accept it but will defend doing it and will hammer anyone that questions the inflated prices.Who's the Schmuck now?I bought my Lincoln welder off the internet in America from an American so an American worker did make sum money and I saved $200 to $400 dollars and I did get a full manufactuer warranty that will be honored by a local authorized service center so no unpatriotic act broken there.Thanks for reading my 4 cents worth (used to be 2cents but inflation  )
Reply:I buy US when I can, but sometimes it is hard.  The only product I ever got home with unpacked and then returned was a 6' US flag made in Taiwan!         I buy products based on what they do, and how well they work.  If it is made in the USA even better! but if the US made one is **** I will take the import...Last edited by Me!; 02-08-2008 at 10:55 PM.Me!
Reply:I shop local as much as I can and as much as it makes sense. I won't get ripped to buy local, but I am willing to pay a little more. It's what I do. My 'buy American' policy is the same. If what I want is made in America and meets my criteria, American it will be. If it isn't made in America or doesn't meet my criteria, I'll buy it from where-ever I need to buy it. One thing I don't buy is 'start-up-company'.  Any company I buy from will have a track record established. I'll do without (and often do) before I let my billfold stear me to the cheepest one in existance.Speaking of stupid (which I can be), last spring I went to the LWS looking at the PM215's. They offered one at $1334.00 and till the end of the year interest free financing. I got busy and scroogy and passed. This year I'll have to go sneaking back in and see what their offer of the day is.  Try getting interest free financing online. And no, I won't go buying some cheesy chi-com knock off just because I can afford it.Last edited by Sandy; 02-08-2008 at 11:06 PM.
Reply:Some of my ancestors got the hell out of the British Empire well before the Revolutionary War, and others were here before England had an empire. Best be glad they did otherwise you would be speaking German. All that technology you brought up was invented here. Some was exported, some was stolen. Yes I own some Chinese made products simply because they are the only ones available. Do you think the Chinese companies pay licensing fees on the Miller and Lincoln products they copied (stole). I do have a Lincoln that was made in Poland. At least they are a democracy. Want to blame someone for all the jobs that left blame Bill Clinton and congress because they forced NAFTA on us. Blame Billy boy for Chine too, he granted them most favored nation trade status. I have no problem with free trade with Canada, but I grew up real near Mexico and lived on the border for several years. I don't blame the illegals because I know what their life is like down there. I never met an illegal Canadian or Brit. In fact I celebrated the 4th of July with the British Air Force on top of a mountain in Germany, looking at the Russians on the mountain on the other side of the valley. Had a heck of a time too. Ya'll might be better off if you stopped supporting the lavish lifestyle of that bunch of inbred parasites. The one thing I do know is that should one of my Millers or Lincolns blow up on me they will be back on the job in 5 days or less. The Chinese machines can't do that. My Miller inverter will run 5/32 Jet all day long without a break. The Chinese one won't. I know my old Chevy has parts made in Canada, but have yet to find a single one that says China or hecho en mexico. Nothing on my Harley was made in China. Voltage regulator came from Canada and the forks from Japan, but that's it. I make my living with these welding machines and will continue to do so because I know they will always do what the manufacturers claim. My livelihood depends on it. As for China they are booming now, but booms always hit a bust (I grew up in the oilfield, it's like a law or something). The handwriting is already on the wall for China and you would see that too if you keep up with current events. I will do my best not to buy any more Chinese products than I absolutely have to for as long as free speech doesn't exist there. No problem with the people, just the ideology. You, like every other European cannot comprehend distance. The nearest authorized repair center for the Chinese stuff is 2000 miles away from me. Name brand repair is about 15 miles away, and they will have it back to me before the Chinese one can even get to the repair center.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I am in the Military, and I do my best to support our economy. I pay my taxes, and report my sales and income taxes from my business. The problem is, we dont make a ton of money in the service, and my business is more like a part time job with me working in the military full time. I buy the important stuff like my welders and other high dollar items USA made (so they say). But I do support the red army too, especially when the generic items like wire brushes and clamps run 5 times as much because it has USA stamped on the side. I think as an average consumer, I have to buy what I can afford.  To me the most important thing is that what I do buy, gets the job done. I am not going to go into debt supporting my local economy. People might not like it, but we are part of a greater global economy that allows average joes like myself to purchase consumer goods at a fair price. It would be great if everyone could afford to buy USA made items only, but I dont think Americans would take the pay cut to work in those factories, just to bring those jobs over here. You ditch the unions, benefits, and lower the minimum wage, and it might be possible for a factory in the states to compete against PROC again. We would have to revert back the the industrial age before unions, and where everyone had a factory job working 12 hour days 6 days a week for low pay and  no benefits. Thats how it is overthere, and thats why I am able to afford the chinese screwdriver to fix my overpriced American products.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:I bought an HTP tig which is made in Italy. It is sold by an individual running a small company out of Arlington Heights, Illinois. He's employing several people and giving business to the various companies that he depends on to do business.So am I going straight to the hot place for not buying a welder made in the U.S.?I bought a milwaukee heat gun because I like to buy U.S. if possible and affordable. This simple device gave me nothing but grief, I ended up smashing it against my workbench in frustration. Would have been MUCH better off in that case buying the POS from harbor freight.Union auto employees in the 'job bank' program collect wages for doing nothing. How they can do this while retaining any sense of self-worth is beyond me.http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...A01-351179.htmThe economic world just isn't as small or as simple as it used to be during the 'good old days'. For better or worse, it is what it is.Someone told me that McDonalds was looking into outsourcing their order taking to somewhere like India. Anyone know if that's true? What the heck are we coming to !!- John
Reply:Originally Posted by Shox DrAnd the biggest irony is you're all bloody foreigners, bar a few Native Americans, and if it wasn't for the rest of us out here you would be up **** creek without a paddle. Oh sorry looks like you are.d
Reply:Ok SHOX DR, you started it so I'll respond.Most of the technology for stuff I buy came out of the US. Yea, most of it is made somewhere else because other places work for a lot less.  I buy welding products made in the USA because they work. I have had very few repairs and they took from a few minutes to a few days. I've made my living welding for over forty years so that shows the durability of American products. I still have the first welder I ever bought and it's only repair has been a new fan motor. I've pretty much used Lincoln and Victor products except a couple of Miller shop machines. None of them ever quit and had to to be junked. Most were used pretty hard but maintained very well.As to your comment about us being foreigners you are right. Guess you are jealous because we kicked your butt and sent you home. As for you taking care of us, if we had not pulled your fat out of the fire in two world wars, you wouldn't exist as a country and would be speaking German. Don't take this personal, study up on history and don't try to bellitle us.
Reply:I only have (and ever bought ) one foreign made welding machine . A migatronic 180 . made in sweden or somewhere around there. it's a good machine , but i haven't used it in years . why,?  After i got my Lincoln S P 250 , i had NO need to use the migatronic. The sp250 , being computerized  is so good &easy to use , i cannot imagine using any other wire feeder .Imagine having NO wire speed  or voltage knobs to set . this machine has no knobs on it . Just a flat membrane panel to tap for the thickness of metal i'm going to weld . Then it sets itself  ! It really  spoiled me .  another thought ; if i need to get parts for that migatronic , i bet i'd be up sh*t  creek![SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Originally Posted by WildcatDon't have any great brand name welders here in Canada so no loss in patriotism from me. I love Canada and wish we built welders. I may have bought one.
Reply:Originally Posted by worldsgreatestwelderThis thread is open to all, as I respect the Constitution of the country I live in.Please feel free to express your self openly and with out fear of reprisals, as the First Amendment to the USA Constitution is fully enforce here.Now then to those of you that have bought fine products made in the USA fully backed by its laws and court system, how could you! Don't you understand that when you spend your hard earned Dollars with your LWS house you are helping to support the families of the people who assured you that it was MADE IN THE USA. That when a fine USA company makes a profit that dividends are paid into the retirement accounts of millions of your fellow citizens. That your local reseller, with profits made from your hard earned Dollar hires more employees, who then spend their Dollars in the local economy, lowering the tax burdened on his/her fellow citizens. I say nay to all this, support for the local State and National economy. Send your USA Dollars over seas ware they can do some real good. China has the fastest growing economy in the world and it needs more. With 1,000,000,000,000 people to feed starvation is certain with out you buying inferior. ill supported often dangerous products. It is your duty to turn your back on your neighbors, friends, family, and fellow citizens. You should have what you want NOW!!! At a price the destroys your own economy so you can go to the garage and fix that other POS foreign made thing you couldn't live with out.So lets hear form all of you and your justification for for taking your DOLLARS to a foreign land to buy that crap. I have made a great sum of money using welding machines made in the USA, and when something goes wrong, I go see my neighbor, my friend, my Fellow American, and we fix the problem. Who are you going to see?Jimmy
Reply:Just thinking about it the only made in Britain product I can think of that I own is a 1968 BSA motorcycle, that didn't run when I got it and still doesn't due to lack of time to mess with. And besides my Harley always runs. I've looked at brit welding gear, makes Lincoln and Miller look cheap price wise, but cast iron tough otherwise. Oh, and we had the right to free speech before you did. Study your history and you will find out that those who left there to come here had good reason. Oh, and btw, we, an upstart country, kicked the mighty British a$$ twice, lol. I live just a few miles from where Andy Jackson's boys did it the second time. The French were smart, they sold out, lol.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Originally Posted by worldsgreatestwelder...That your local reseller, with profits made from your hard earned Dollar hires more employees, who then spend their Dollars in the local economy, lowering the tax burdened (sic) on his/her fellow citizens.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jolly RogerJust thinking about it the only made in Britain product I can think of that I own is a 1968 BSA motorcycle, that didn't run when I got it and still doesn't due to lack of time to mess with. And besides my Harley always runs. I've looked at brit welding gear, makes Lincoln and Miller look cheap price wise, but cast iron tough otherwise. Oh, and we had the right to free speech before you did. Study your history and you will find out that those who left there to come here had good reason. Oh, and btw, we, an upstart country, kicked the mighty British a$$ twice, lol. I live just a few miles from where Andy Jackson's boys did it the second time. The French were smart, they sold out, lol.
Reply:The idea and feeling of Americans were that the idle English with no real product of their own. And yet consuming or profiting from all the products. Were not a good role model for Americans or American children. So phrases like "I will have never a Nobel. No lineage counted great. Fishers, and choppers and plowman shall constitute a state". Became the way of true Americans.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Some interesting replies. I havn't time to reply to all of them so lets start with.You may have kicked us out of the USA, but since then I cant remember a single conflict you have either been in or started that you have won, (yes you beat the japs but it took a bl00dy gret Bomb to stop that one, and moments before you were getting your arse tanned big time). As for WWII. Yes you helped out but you certainly didnt win it.The Battle of Britain ended the 2nd World war and I dont recall hearing about any of your Planes in that one. Good job you'd of spent all your time shooting us out of the sky.Now lets leave that one alone if you please, we were talking about modern day.
Reply:Google Bill of Rights, Freedom of Speech and learn something about yelling "Fire" in a theater. You will learn also that we are granted no rights by the government if you didn't already know that. Talk about getting off the subject of the thread.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerGoogle Bill of Rights, Freedom of Speech and learn something about yelling "Fire" in a theater. You will learn also that we are granted no rights by the government if you didn't already know that. Talk about getting off the subject of the thread.Originally Posted by Shox DrSome interesting replies. I havn't time to reply to all of them so lets start with.You may have kicked us out of the USA, but since then I cant remember a single conflict you have either been in or started that you have won, (yes you beat the japs but it took a bl00dy gret Bomb to stop that one, and moments before you were getting your arse tanned big time). As for WWII. Yes you helped out but you certainly didnt win it.The Battle of Britain ended the 2nd World war and I dont recall hearing about any of your Planes in that one. Good job you'd of spent all your time shooting us out of the sky.Now lets leave that one alone if you please, we were talking about modern day.
Reply:Our bill of right merely recognizes god given inalienable rights.  It does not grant them.Last edited by Berniep; 02-09-2008 at 06:00 PM.Reason: less flamable
Reply:WIlliam, the constituion does not grant us any rights, it spells out the powers of the federal government. The Bill of Rights was written to protect the fundemental rights of men from encroachment of government. I am probably wasting my time.
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy Hodges..................................................  ..................................................  .............................................................  ..................................................  .................................Since a lot of cars are made in Canada , I'm at a loss as to why welding machines are not also made there? Maybe they think the market isn't big enough to justify the investment ? I think of Canada as being our brother Country . I do NOT think of Mexico being a Brother country , it just happens to be south of our border . Canadians should be proud that they do NOT border Mexico. Our current administration is doing it's best to turn the U S A into "Mexico North ". Where 3 % of the people have 97% of the wealth .
Reply:I dont know what any of this has to do with buying american made....You guys sure know how to go off on a long walk down a crooked path.Me, I try to buy american made as much as I can. But its real hard these days. And it ALWAYS costs more. Which most people are too cheap to pay.And sometimes, even when you try, you get snookered. I bought a new Ford F150 a couple three years ago. American right? Nope, Canadian. And I consider anyplace I have to use a passport to get to a foreign country. My dollars I spent on my Ford went to pay for the free health care my canadian buddies get.Then, my wife bought a Honda- Japanese, right? Nope, made in Marysville Ohio, with a higher american made content than a new Ford Mustang has.I have all Miller Welders. Made in Appleton Wisconsin. And I put some of my IRA money into Illinois Tool stock, which is the company that owns Miller. Kinda felt like I should put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. Not that I have done as well on the stock as I would have if I had invested it in Indian or Chinese stocks- but it felt like the right thing to do.But for a lot of tools, there arent many options in made in the USA. I have tools from Spain, Turkey, Germany, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, but almost nothing from China. And a bunch from the USA. I love my Hossfeld bender, for example, made in Winona Minnesota. I have a Gorton Engraving machine from Wisconsin. A Delta Unisaw that was made in the USA. A Chicago brand finger brake from, you guessed, Chicago. A few Tennsmith, and Roper Whitney tools from the midwest as well. A Johnstown air compressor from Johnstown PA. And a plasma cutter from Illinios.And funnily enough, even though Dewalt and Black and Decker are mostly made in Mexico and China, I have a bunch of Makita tools made in the USA, a few Bosch tools made here, (although most of my good Bosch grinders say "made in Germany" on em) Even a few of my Milwaukee tools are old enough to have been made in Milwaukee. My Jancy mag drill is US made.But it aint easy.One thing I do is buy almost all of my food locally. I get my eggs from a neighbor, my milk and cheese from a dairy down the road, my bread from a bakery in town two miles away, my veggies and fruits from farmers I know, my meat from a local meat co-op, my beer is mostly Washington State brewed, I drink local apple juice and eat a lot of oysters, shrimp, and fish from Puget Sound, which is a mile away. And all of it costs more than imported, crappy tasting mass market stuff. But hey, you wanna live forever?
Reply:i LIKE YOUR style  ![SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:[QUOTE=Shox Dr;162990]Some interesting replies. I havn't time to reply to all of them so lets start with.You may have kicked us out of the USA, but since then I cant remember a single conflict you have either been in or started that you have won, (yes you beat the japs but it took a bl00dy gret Bomb to stop that one, and moments before you were getting your arse tanned big time). As for WWII. Yes you helped out but you certainly didnt win it.The Battle of Britain ended the 2nd World war and I dont recall hearing about any of your Planes in that one. Good job you'd of spent all your time shooting us out of the sky...............................................  ..................................................  .............................................................  ..................................................  ..............................wHO THE HELL TOLD YOU THIS BUNCH OF CRAP? tHE BATTLE OF bRITAIN MERELY ENDED WITH THE gERMANS REALISING THEY COULDN'T BEAT THE  Brits in the air attacks over England. It was NOwhere near the end of ww2 . You don't have to believe me , those are the facts . Any British war historian will tell you the real facts, but i doubt you'd believe THEM if you were smacked in the face with the truth . AND, the Americans atomic bombing the Japanese killed a heck of a lot LESS than if we'd continued the fire bombing of Japan. The Atom Bomb was for SHOCK value , not the purpose of wiping every living thing in Japan off the map.[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Sorry Roy but IIRC about the battle of Britian was Germany was very close to winning that battle when thay broke off.  Had it not been for the early radars and a well thought out command and control plan Germany would have won.  It's a real testament to Englands resolve that they were able to hold off the Luftwaffe with their limited resources.DennisThermal Arc 185-TSWMillermatic Challenger 172VictorO/AAtlas Craftsman 12 by 24 LatheEsab PCM-875Wholesalem Tool Mill-Drill
Reply:Originally Posted by Tailshaft56Sorry Roy but IIRC about the battle of Britian was Germany was very close to winning that battle when thay broke off.  Had it not been for the early radars and a well thought out command and control plan Germany would have won.  It's a real testament to Englands resolve that they were able to hold off the Luftwaffe with their limited resources.
Reply:Originally Posted by RockoAs far as "made in USA" you dont even find that on most American flags anymore and the computer your on was made in China or Japan, I don t beleive there is anyone out there that doesn't own something from China, Japan or Mexico. ya it sucks but its reality.How do we help our local workers when we buy USA products that are made over seas?I know people that work at Lows, Home Depot and stores like that and they dont get paid crap. Have you ever noticed the employee turnover in them stores? Low wages, no bennefits and peanuts for raises. We dont help anyone but large Corps when we pay top dollar for Chineese crap that has a USA name on it. I have too many family members that lost their factory jobs because the Chineese can make it cheaper and my buying made in USA products didn't stop it from happening and now the economy sucks and I cant afford the higher priced Chinese stuff with USA names on it. FYI, Those USA based companies that have their stuff made in Mexico and over seas are raking in billions and the CEO's plus other top officials along with the lobbyist  are making millions and millions of dollars and the hard working US employees are loosing health care and other bennifits along with being asked to take pay cuts and alot of the Unions are pretty much a joke anymore. If thats not bad enough the USA based companies are now allowed to bring their billions in profits from overseas and they dont have to pay taxes on it but guess who does? Thats right the working middle and lower class people like us.So no were are not "unpatriotic" or Schmucks, idiots or some of the other words I cant spell. We are just hard working under paid Americans that are patriotic and try to find leagal ways to better ourselfs, make an extra buck or pickup a hobby and do it with the funds and means that are available to us.So you can call me what you want but I know the one that controls the price of the higher priced chinese stuff is the one that will pay top dollar and will not only accept it but will defend doing it and will hammer anyone that questions the inflated prices.Who's the Schmuck now?I bought my Lincoln welder off the internet in America from an American so an American worker did make sum money and I saved $200 to $400 dollars and I did get a full manufactuer warranty that will be honored by a local authorized service center so no unpatriotic act broken there.Thanks for reading my 4 cents worth (used to be 2cents but inflation  )
Reply:Buy American  Buy union... nuff said....
Reply:Originally Posted by 69 chevyIf this statement of fact isn't the biggest crock of , I don't know what is.  This used to be a very rural part of Penn's Woods until the developers came in and waved huge amounts of $$$ around in the farmer's faces.  Now, instead of pastures, silos, barns and fields of amber waves of grain, it's nothing but single family houses, occupied by transplant folks from New Jersey and Long Island.  You'd think, Jimmy the worldsgreatestwelder, that the 10-fold increase in residents, with there $400K homes and paying their real estate and school taxes, that my tax burden would be almost nil.  For, you see, corn fields don't demand services from the local government.  But all these schmucks that moved from where they were living high on the hog, now demand bigger schools, round the clock police and fire protection, six inches of road salt for every one inch of snow, and "upscale" shopping centers so they don't feel deprived of the standard of living that they were accustomed to.  Perhaps in your wildest dreams, tax burdens were lowered, but not in my instance.  And the only jobs created are of the low-paying service nature, to serve these new fatcat residents.  Because Jimmy, lots of these folks just live here now, but they clog up the roads to commute to the high-paying jobs where they used to live.  And then they cry to the politicians about traffic jambs, so the government builds multi-million $$ roads.  Hey Jimmy, guess who's burdened footing the bill for all their wants?  I think you'd better climb back into the macroeconomic liquor bottle you crawled out of, named Utopia!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by RiesI dont know what any of this has to do with buying american made....You guys sure know how to go off on a long walk down a crooked path.Me, I try to buy american made as much as I can. But its real hard these days. And it ALWAYS costs more. Which most people are too cheap to pay.And sometimes, even when you try, you get snookered. I bought a new Ford F150 a couple three years ago. American right? Nope, Canadian. And I consider anyplace I have to use a passport to get to a foreign country. My dollars I spent on my Ford went to pay for the free health care my canadian buddies get.Then, my wife bought a Honda- Japanese, right? Nope, made in Marysville Ohio, with a higher american made content than a new Ford Mustang has.I have all Miller Welders. Made in Appleton Wisconsin. And I put some of my IRA money into Illinois Tool stock, which is the company that owns Miller. Kinda felt like I should put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. Not that I have done as well on the stock as I would have if I had invested it in Indian or Chinese stocks- but it felt like the right thing to do.But for a lot of tools, there arent many options in made in the USA. I have tools from Spain, Turkey, Germany, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, but almost nothing from China. And a bunch from the USA. I love my Hossfeld bender, for example, made in Winona Minnesota. I have a Gorton Engraving machine from Wisconsin. A Delta Unisaw that was made in the USA. A Chicago brand finger brake from, you guessed, Chicago. A few Tennsmith, and Roper Whitney tools from the midwest as well. A Johnstown air compressor from Johnstown PA. And a plasma cutter from Illinios.And funnily enough, even though Dewalt and Black and Decker are mostly made in Mexico and China, I have a bunch of Makita tools made in the USA, a few Bosch tools made here, (although most of my good Bosch grinders say "made in Germany" on em) Even a few of my Milwaukee tools are old enough to have been made in Milwaukee. My Jancy mag drill is US made.But it aint easy.One thing I do is buy almost all of my food locally. I get my eggs from a neighbor, my milk and cheese from a dairy down the road, my bread from a bakery in town two miles away, my veggies and fruits from farmers I know, my meat from a local meat co-op, my beer is mostly Washington State brewed, I drink local apple juice and eat a lot of oysters, shrimp, and fish from Puget Sound, which is a mile away. And all of it costs more than imported, crappy tasting mass market stuff. But hey, you wanna live forever?
Reply:Doesn't matter. Even with the Indians and the Chinese out there US workers still build an awful lot of stuff. The electronics I used while in the Army was all Made In The USA, mostly by hand. I know because the same guys who built it were the ones who repaired it when it broke. Any cutting edge technology has a high failure rate. Thank them for what they did, because without them you wouldn't be sitting here on this blog. Funny thing all of the technology that makes the internet work came from the good ol' USA. China certainly didn't invent fiber optics, nor did Britain. You have absolutely no idea how much of the technology you use daily in Britain or any other modern country came out of US military research or the US space program. Got a microwave, thank NASA. I use a twenty year old Lincoln wire feeder that has been repaired a total of once. I like that quality. I used to use a Lincoln shop machine that was built during the depression (this was 1980) and it never did anything but sit there and weld every time I fired it off. I use a ten year old Miller inverter daily, and it just keeps running steady like a rock. My Victor torches and regulators are ancient and still work just as good as new. I take great pride in my work and it is always of the highest quality. Yes some of the electrodes I use are foreign manufactured. Harris products from France I believe, first class quality, and used when I can't get Lincoln. I've yet to meet a Brit I didn't like, but I am sure there are some out there. To date all have been great people. I say the same for the Canadians. I agree about the brother countries thing, and feel the same way about the brits. I truly feel we should all be watching each others backs, not sniping at each other. The same terrorists attacking us are attacking Britain. We just have better means of going after them, and committed individuals, all volunteers who protect us through their sacrifice, and your British butt as well through what they do. Oh, and when you frag our technology don't forget about those fighter jets, and bombers the size of football fields nobody's radar can see. Bet you dollars to donuts those are made in the USA. If not for the USA all of Europe would be speaking Russian now. That is just a fact. Yes sometimes our politicians get us into things they shouldn't have, that has been going on since long before America existed, they were just called Kings then. Our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines are fighters, not peacekeepers. Perhaps that is why they aren't so good at keeping the peace, but terribly good at kicking *** and taking names. I can tell you that all of our soldiers and marines would like nothing more than to go one on one with the terrorists, but the cowards won't because they know they will die. Nope, we don't build everything in the world, and what we build isn't the cheapest, but it is almost always of good quality. As for the Toyotas and Nissans there is a reason why they are so good. They are built in the US by American workers who take pride in their products. I drove both before they were made here and was always fixing something on them. In the last 3 years all I have done to my Chevy is change the oil. My 20 year old Dodge is a different story. I have had to replace a few parts, but would have had to replace the same parts on any other brand as well. It has 186,000 miles on it and still runs and drives great. Sorry I got so windy guys, guess it the patriotism coming out in me, lol.BUY AMERICAN WHENEVER YOU CAN! The job you save will either be yours or your neighbors. Oh, I recently was forced to use some 3 inch Chinese pipe. Out of 6 joints every single bevel was out of true and machined off center. Tell me about their quality again.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I would like to point out that the Swedes invented plasma cutting, but they have been kind enough to let us use the technology anyway.Not everything was invented here, and not everything from here is good. Or everything imported bad.The Germans make the best milling machines by far (Deckels) and my Spanish Geka Ironworker beats the pants off any competing american model.I have traveled around the world, and people are people, everywhere- some good, some bad, some lazy, some industrious. We dont have a monopoly on being right. I love going to other countries, and learning from the people there, and they all have a lot to teach us- even the Russians, or the French, or, yes, the Chinese, on an individual, human level.I buy american stuff not because I think foreigners are bad- but because I believe it makes sense to contribute to where you live, to support your neighbors, to all pull together. We are not somehow "better" than argentinians or indonesians or kenyans. But if we dont clean our own house first, if we dont fix our own roof, we are a pretty sad lot. All politics is local, and if you dont help your neighbors out, what does that say about you?
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrWe lost more then Germany and Japan in World War Two. We lost our science to counterintelligence operations. We lost our chemistry in maintaining our counterintelligence programs. Looks like we lost what should have deserved our utter most patronage.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:If Local, and Union prices were a little more competitive, it would be easy to by American made. Before Union demands, companies had no reason to outsource, they had all the affordable labor here in the states. Im not saying its wrong for people to want better pay and standards, everyone does, but companies dont make as much when they have to give into the demands of their entire workforce. When the companies are investing more money into thier workforce, they have to increase the prices of thier products to compensate. When prices go up, consumers become more cautious of thier spending habits. The companies cant survive if thier consumer base doesn't buy as much, they have to let more and more people go, to stay profitable. It gets to the point that in order to survive, they have to buy in to cheaper labor markets. That means outsourcing, and sometimes taking all operations overseas. Companies dont do what they do to break even, they do it to make profit, they have to. You wouldnt work for free, so why should companies stay here and essesntialy make little to no money. Should they do it so that they can say they are patriotic? If thats the case, the government should privatize all business, and give everything back to the people in the form of equal pay and benefits all the way around. No-one should have the right to own property, or the opportunity to advance socially and economically. If thats what you want, move to Venezuela, or Cuba. I would really love to always support my local economy, but when it is not competitive with the global economy, it becomes a matter of buying what I need, and not what my local economy wants me to.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:Originally Posted by QuciferIf Local, and Union prices were a little more competitive, it would be easy to by American made. Before Union demands, companies had no reason to outsource, they had all the affordable labor here in the states. Im not saying its wrong for people to want better pay and standards, everyone does, but companies dont make as much when they have to give into the demands of their entire workforce. When the companies are investing more money into thier workforce, they have to increase the prices of thier products to compensate. When prices go up, consumers become more cautious of thier spending habits. The companies cant survive if thier consumer base doesn't buy as much, they have to let more and more people go, to stay profitable. It gets to the point that in order to survive, they have to buy in to cheaper labor markets. That means outsourcing, and sometimes taking all operations overseas. Companies dont do what they do to break even, they do it to make profit, they have to. You wouldnt work for free, so why should companies stay here and essesntialy make little to no money. Should they do it so that they can say they are patriotic? If thats the case, the government should privatize all business, and give everything back to the people in the form of equal pay and benefits all the way around. No-one should have the right to own property, or the opportunity to advance socially and economically. If thats what you want, move to Venezuela, or Cuba. I would really love to always support my local economy, but when it is not competitive with the global economy, it becomes a matter of buying what I need, and not what my local economy wants me to.
Reply:Originally Posted by Shox DrSome interesting replies. I havn't time to reply to all of them so lets start with....As for WWII. Yes you helped out but you certainly didnt win it.The Battle of Britain ended the 2nd World war and I dont recall hearing about any of your Planes in that one.... Now lets leave that one alone if you please, we were talking about modern day.
Reply:I dont live in the U.S.A  but i have been involved in a lot of usa equiptment and found it very good ,i belive if your country makes goods support it. A customer asked for a certain make of spot welding equiptment its no longer made in this country ,people wanted a cheap machine,people who buy cheap imports will in time stop the home producing welding sets ,look after your fellow workers and buy usa products not cheap imports.YOU KNOW IT MAKES  SENSE.
Reply:I like to buy American, IF it's affordable and the quality is satisfactory.  Today, if it's affordable, the quality likely isn't acceptable.Today, I bought my wife a card for Valentine's day.  I noticed that the printing was flawed, in fact, every card of that design was flawed.  I looked at the back and was surprised that it was printed in the U.S.A.  Bought it anyway 'cause I liked the card...My 2007 Chevy pickup was delivered with an exhaust leak and had a transmission leak at 3000 miles.  Our secretary just bought a new Ford pickup which developed an oil leak the first week.  The auto makers would be smart to divide warranty claims into categories of design problems and assembly problems.  They should make the unions pay for assembly problems.  It would improve quality a lot if the idiots that built our vehicles were held accountable for what they produce!I think a lot of American workers that work in manufacturing just don't care, or they're on drugs, or something.  The quality is typically lousy.I like my Chinese computers.  I like my West German Knipex & Wiha tools.  I like my (old) Japanese camera.America Needs AMERICA'S Oil!!!"Global warming is the greatest scam in history ...There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril."--John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloThe US gov't. really needs to set standards on how much foriegn sourced eqipment can be in any product called 'Made in USA'.
Reply:How come the off-shore tool companies like to imply that their product have US roots? Chicago Industrial, Pittsburgh Forge, Milwaukee Electric... What's wrong with Peking Power Forge,  Beijing Industrial, Taiwan Industrial Tools...? Where's their pride?To me, few UK products found in the states seem worth mentioning; certain Perkins engines, and Benny Hill's films. Many others seem like overly complex,  finicky, unserviceable, thread pulling, expensive, rubbish.Few Chinese tools make the cut in my book. The dull gray large sockets; no chrome, and no name, are an exception; they seem really tough. The Chinese Perkins (Perking?!?) diesel engines seemed as good as the English. Just because all the engines carry the same serial number; they are alleged to be copy Cats!  Now there's been some legal wrangling to TRY to stop copy-cat production. There was probably another one built, while you read this!
Reply:Originally Posted by Shox DrThe Battle of Britain ended the 2nd World war and I dont recall hearing about any of your Planes in that one. Good job you'd of spent all your time shooting us out of the sky.
Reply:I prefer to buy based on one of two criteria:1)  Quality2)  PriceTypically, you can't get the best of both.  Depending on product, I may want price or I may prefer quality.  The US needs to keep with its roots and build for quality....then work for lower price.  We simply can't compete with China on basis of price.  I've seen it first hand.  The company I work for is losing about 25% of our production to China this year, and it's not due to quality.