Ignorant LWS!

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Is it me, or do you have to be a moron to work at a welding supply? Why does no one anywhere have any product knowledge? Called every supply house in Charlotte NC, looking for a low hydrogen self shielded wire, no one knew what I was talking about, not one person at one place could help me. I have run into this situation everywhere, from trying to find an equivalent replacement for thoriated tungsten in WA, to trying to find 0.68" mig tips in NY, none of these people know their product range. I know my LWS has no clue what various mix gases are used for, don't even ask. I went the other day to get my Invertec V275-S switched from dinse to tweco connectors, and they could not help me, they just couldn't. They told me to go find what part numbers I needed and come back. Lazy bastards. I would go somewhere else, but they are all the same. And beware to uninitiated, I have been lied to by LWS reps, I asked about polarity on arc gouging, and with all the confidence in the world he gave me the wrong answer.Constant Current Weldor.
Reply:My LWS is great. If I call them with any questions they can usually answer them pretty well. I love dealing with mine
Reply:The guys at my LWS are a great bunch of guys. I've known one for almost 30-years. But, if it's not on the shelf behind them, don't bother asking!Several times I've been in line, the guy at the front of the line was getting engineering advice from these counter guys. I just shake my head, and smile.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Low hydrogen self-shielded wire (halfway down the page):  http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...k-welding-smaw"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Yea mine is about the same unless its in the store in front of them those guys don't seem to know much.
Reply:My LWS guys are great and Im in Charlotte. Would be interested to know which places you called.
Reply:Don't feel bad. When I have tough questions I call a S. J. Smith branch 180 miles away then get what I need from the local branch. My friend at the remote branch understands why and the local guys look at me funny when the paperwork comes from the other branch. Dan D.Manipulator Of Metal
Reply:Im pretty lucky here,  I'm pretty hard pressed to come up with something they can't find. I asked for the card that does the 280 dx upgrade for ac and he didn't know but would call back.  An hour later my part was ordered and cheaper than I expected.Regards,RobGreat Basin WeldingInstagramBlue weldersRed weldersMy luscious Table DIY TIG Torch cooler
Reply:Call me ignorant but I've been welding for a few years now and try to keep track of everything new on the market and I've never heard of low hydrogen flux wire before.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:At least for the Canadian codes all hard wire is low hydrogen, ( kinda obvious),  and flux cored wire is also low hydrogen rated.  ( difficult to introduce moisture on the inside of a metal tube)  I have never seen a flux cored wire that was classified as not being low hydrogen.
Reply:my lws is ok. the guy's who run it are fairly knowledgeable and they got a pretty girl working out front. good discount for cash money purchases besides.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:I get some good deals at my lws because they don't know what they are doing sometimes.Two full boxes of 6" sait sanding pads on the clearance table for $0.65 each   I ask and guy says take both boxes for $10. Well alright you don't have to twist my arm and stuff.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Originally Posted by DavidbrownIs it me, or do you have to be a moron to work at a welding supply? Why does no one anywhere have any product knowledge? Called every supply house in Charlotte NC, looking for a low hydrogen self shielded wire, no one knew what I was talking about, not one person at one place could help me. I have run into this situation everywhere, from trying to find an equivalent replacement for thoriated tungsten in WA, to trying to find 0.68" mig tips in NY, none of these people know their product range. I know my LWS has no clue what various mix gases are used for, don't even ask. I went the other day to get my Invertec V275-S switched from dinse to tweco connectors, and they could not help me, they just couldn't. They told me to go find what part numbers I needed and come back. Lazy bastards. I would go somewhere else, but they are all the same. And beware to uninitiated, I have been lied to by LWS reps, I asked about polarity on arc gouging, and with all the confidence in the world he gave me the wrong answer.
Reply:I've had mixed results...depends on the individual. Generally I find it helpful to go online and get the proper names and  parts numbers for what I want. It's a lot easier for them if they can pull up a page on the computer and find the listing. Prices up here are higher than what I find online in the states, but at least then I know when I'm getting gouged. One guy tried to sell me a welding tip for $170 that is available online for $48.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by deweyc9My LWS guys are great and Im in Charlotte. Would be interested to know which places you called.
Reply:E71T-8 is the AWS designation I needed. ESAB Coreshield 8 and Lincoln's 233 & 232 are the best examples. If you ever have to weld on a bridge or high ocupancy structure you will learn about this. AWS D1.8 I never had to deal with it until I got into real heavy duty structural welding. "Moment" welds. It kind of humbling really, I used to think I knew ALLOT about welding/fab, but the older I get (almost 30) the more I realize I'm just learning. I have the basics down, but there is allot more I don't know than I do. I walked up on this ^ job, and just got schooled on deposit composition and mechanical properties of the deposit.Constant Current Weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by gundog77I hope the 0.68" mig tip you're looking for is not the wire size.
Reply:Originally Posted by DavidbrownE71T-8 is the AWS designation I needed. ESAB Coreshield 8 and Lincoln's 233 & 232 are the best examples. If you ever have to weld on a bridge or high ocupancy structure you will learn about this. AWS D1.8 I never had to deal with it until I got into real heavy duty structural welding. "Moment" welds. It kind of humbling really, I used to think I knew ALLOT about welding/fab, but the older I get (almost 30) the more I realize I'm just learning. I have the basics down, but there is allot more I don't know than I do. I walked up on this ^ job, and just got schooled on deposit composition and mechanical properties of the deposit.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleCall me ignorant but I've been welding for a few years now and try to keep track of everything new on the market and I've never heard of low hydrogen flux wire before.
Reply:The OP's question wasn't about some obscure technical information. I took it he wanted a 7018 equivalent in Innershield. Shouldn't have been that tough of a question than none of the LWS's could answer it.
Reply:Originally Posted by DavidbrownEvery single one listed. I had to look up the various part numbers from ESAB, Hobart, Hyundai, ect, of all the wires they made that fit my needs and call them back. They dont have it in Charlotte. To be fair, it was a tough question. I had an engineer specifying 8mg diffusible hydrogen (same as 7018) but I really wanted to run wire for speed.
Reply:I believe Hobart XLR8 is what you would look for in that brand.I once walked into a Praxair, asking for pricing on Koike quick connectors. The guy behind the counter asked if I had part numbers. Nope, can't you look them up? Get this, he said, why, you'll just go somewhere else to buy them!!! Forking moroons!!!"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Why go to a welding supply if they can't help you with your welding purchases? The whole reason to go to a welding supply is because they're supposed to be the ones with the knowledge to help you or at least be able to get the proper answer to help you. There's been so much new technology in welding in the last couple decades that no one on the planet could keep up with it. That said, the guy at the counter should have an idea of what low hydrogen rods are and what applications they're for.
Reply:"Every single one listed."Cry me a river, how can a guy who sits in a store selling stuff possibly be as knowledgeable as someone who does the hands on work day in and day out. I live in Charlotte area too, Local guy at Roberts Oxygen Gastonia seems smart, Air Gas has 3 reps in the store and one of them is clueless.one bad apples does not taint the whole bushel.If you were to hire someone for a business to sell stuff, would you pay them twice the $$$ to get someone who was a wiz or pay them half as much if they knew the basics. Knowledge does not come cheap.if you have run into this problem "everywhere" than you haven't been many places. or have a very high standard.Last edited by AluminumWelder; 11-30-2014 at 10:48 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder Dave The whole reason to go to a welding supply is because they're supposed to be the ones with the knowledge to help you or at least be able to get the proper answer to help you.If it's a specialized field, product knowledge is king. Most businesses do their best on referrals from other customers. You know the old saying, you have to spend money to make money? One bad apple can taint the whole bunch just like one bad review is worse for business than 10 good reviews. There's a lot of competition in welding supplies. One place I worked at spent a whole pile of money moving into a new building. When they were setting up the show room they were putting ridiculously high prices on stuff on the shelves. I didn't have a say but if I was a customer and saw a way higher price on a smaller item, I certainly wouldn't be back looking at more purchases, especially bigger purchases. "Cry me a river, how can a guy who sits in a store selling stuff possibly be as knowledgeable as someone who does the hands on work day in and day out."You would be surprised how many experienced Journeyman welders have absolutely no clue about what their machines can do or basic welding knowledge for that matter. At a good LWS, they have access to training from the product suppliers as well as all of the catalogs to read up on . The guys in the field don't have this.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelder"Every single one listed."Cry me a river, how can a guy who sits in a store selling stuff possibly be as knowledgeable as someone who does the hands on work day in and day out. I live in Charlotte area too, Local guy at Roberts Oxygen Gastonia seems smart, Air Gas has 3 reps in the store and one of them is clueless.one bad apples does not taint the whole bushel.If you were to hire someone for a business to sell stuff, would you pay them twice the $$$ to get someone who was a wiz or pay them half as much if they knew the basics. Knowledge does not come cheap.if you have run into this problem "everywhere" than you haven't been many places. or have a very high standard.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder Dave You would be surprised how many experienced Journeyman welders have absolutely no clue about what their machines can do or basic welding knowledge for that matter[/B]. At a good LWS, they have access to training from the product suppliers as well as all of the catalogs to read up on . The guys in the field don't have this.
Reply:My local guy refers to his store as a "convenience" store. Talking to him one day when the phone simply wouldn't stop ringing, he told me over 75% of his sales are all phone orders from clients with accounts, typically gas and wire/rod. All he has to do is write up the work order and schedule the delivery. The gas and supplies never hit his actual store but get shipped direct from their central location on the truck. He says about 20% of the sales are customers who have accounts who walk in because they need it now. That's why they stock the selection they do. It's almost always items that are in high demand as far as rods and consumables, or impulse items like new hoods, gloves, grinding disks etc. Stuff the guy on the shop floor decides to grab because it's not his money and it gets charged to the account anyways.The last 5% are small one man outfits, hobbyists or students. They make up just a tiny bit of his sales and that's why he has to drop everything to answer the phone, even if that means the person in the store has to wait.He's usually pretty good if I have questions, but if he's out for some reason, usually the "kid" they put behind the counter knows how to punch in orders and that's about it. No huge surprise, you see it in just about every business today. It costs money to train people or hire experience. Entry level help simply doesn't get that training. With almost all of my commercial suppliers you'll only find a handful of people who can answer "real" questions. Typically they have been with the company more than 10 years, the better ones more than 20..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveIt's not just the people in welding supplies that can have their info or lack thereof all wrong. A couple years ago I met one of the local Lincoln reps. We were having a short conversation about TIG welders and the differences with inverters. This supposedly educated Lincoln rep. was trying to tell me that the old transformer based AC/DC TIG mentions didn't need continuous high freq. when welding aluminum on AC. I asked why then was there was an off, start and continuous switch for the HF. He said the older machines would automatically shut the continuous HF off once the arc was established. I didn't really have much to discuss with him after that. I might have got whiplash from shaking my head too much. I don't know why but Lincoln seems to have a mentality that they are the best and no one else knows anything about welding. In some cases I think their arrogance gives customers a good reason to look elsewhere. Lincoln does have some very good people though.
Reply:That's not what the conversation was about. The Lincoln rep. was trying to tell me that on a transformer machine like say an Ideralarc TIG 300/300 that when set on continuous high frequency, the high frequency automatically shuts off and doesn't need to stay on when welding aluminum on AC just like an inverter doesn't need to have continuous HF on aluminum. When welding steel with HF on start, it automatically shuts off and isn't needed. Welding ability doesn't always transfer into welding knowledge regardless if you've been doing it for 40 years. Most jobs requiring some type of code or procedure pretty much have everything already figured out so the welder just has to go weld following the procedure. Like I said before, wanting an Innershield wire equivalent to 7018 is a pretty basic question and even if the person at the counter didn't know, all they'd have to do is look in a catalog or make a simple call to Lincoln or Hobart etc. There are definitively some morons working in welding supplies and who call themselves welders. Had a journeyman welder with probably an $80,000 rig with a Vantage 400 and an LN25 wire feeder. He had no idea what-so-ever of what the CC/CV switch on the wire feeder was for. You just have to shake your head sometimes. Having the Cadillac of equipment and not having a clue how it works speaks moron to me. So does a guy at the LWS offering 6013 because they are out of 6010 and it's only one number different.
Reply:If you went to an electrical supply house and described remotely what you needed, they would give you several options from several manufactures. They have one of the most complex product ranges of any trade, and its constantly in flux. They don't ask you to go look up your own part numbers. I'm with Dave, something went wrong in our industry, I think it is incredible that some just expect to have your part # ready.  You're right, I spend my days with my hands on the welder, but they spend their days with the products and the catalogues, they are professionals and they should know their product. I'm not saying they all suck, several pop out in my mind that were great, but as a whole, they are very good.Constant Current Weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by DavidbrownIf you went to an electrical supply house and described remotely what you needed, they would give you several options from several manufactures.
Reply:I own a hardware store. It is hard to find good people, even harder is training them. It takes months for some guys before they are knowledgeable enough to be of any help to a customer.