Field trip with the Welding Metallurgy class!

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Well, this seems like a good forum for this post! Our instructor has been doing his best to arrange tonights "class" for a very long time. Funny what snail-mail will still accomplish when e-mail falls flat!! Anyway, we got to take a guided tour from the fine staff at and of TAMCO Steel.TAMCO makes and sells rebar...lots & lots of rebar!! They also sell steel billets.They use scrap metal to make up a good percentage of the raw material that goes into each "heat".So, after an orientation & saftey meeting, off we went!Did I mention they use scrap metal? Oh, sorry, I meant they use lots and lots of scrap metal!! They say Caterpillar makes a bigger model loader with an elevator to get to the cab!!  Well, it is getting close to midnight, so I hope to show you more of the tour, but it will have to wait for the moment....to be continued...City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Sounds like a great time Danny.  I saw one of those loaders while working at Avesta-Sheffield, near Baltimore, MD.  It had a huge post on the front, instead of a bucket.  They used it for moving 30 tonne coils of CR sheet.  The guy I was working with told me about an accident at the plant.  The owner's son left his corvette parked in a no-parking zone, near a blind corner.  A coil driver came around that corner carrying a load, couldn't see the parked car, and flattened it in a single pass.  Thankfully, no one was sitting in the car when it happened.I spent a fair amount of time working up at the mills in Gary, IN.  I remember my first visit to the Inland steel operation, and working at the BOF operation there.  They were using a bulldozer, with a ~12" steel rod on the front instead of a blade ,  to break slag off the mouth of the furnace.  Charging that furnace with a magnetic hoist made the whole building shake.  The oxygen lance that burned the carbon and other impurities out of the iron would blow sparks and slag 100' in every direction.  Watching that is like standing in the middle of a fireworks show.Looks like TAMCO is a bar mill...Hopefully you got some great pictures of the rolling or drawing operations.  Can't wait to see what else you have to post.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I have seen them take 40' bars glowing red and run it through dies to make axle stock and things like that.  WHAT A SIGHT looks like in your pic #2.  As the bar gets smaller it travels faster.  If the bar misses a die, it turns into a 30' red hot pretzel. They called it a wreck and cut the pieces up with really long torches.  Glad you took the tour.David.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Try and get into a rolling mill someday David.  They'll take a billet ~20' long, ~12" wide, and ~6" thick, and roll it down to less than 0.1" thick.  The rolling mill is hundreds of feet long, and by the time the sheet exits the rolls, it's moving at ~60 mph.  It's taken up on a roll at the end of the line, but if it gets kinked or tears, the ribbon of steel ~40" wide shoots out and tangles like spaghetti across the whole area.  It's a red-hot guillotine that chops up anything standing in its way, until they shut down the line.  Fortunately, this doesn't happen very often because we have smart, safety conscious people working in the mills.Not that drawing steel bar, rod, or wire is any safer.  The die surfaces that shape the steel will deform over time, and stresses will build up in the tool steel/carbide/ceramic die.  The drawing dies can build up incredibly high levels of residual stress.  So much so that I've seen them stored in steel safety cages when not in use, in case the residual stresses that accumulate during use cause them to fail catastrophically.  A small defect will eventually cause the die to crack, and this can release enough stored energy that the die material throws shrapnel in random directions when it lets go.  It's not so different than when a weldment let's go due to excessive thermal stresses.  The die materials will store a much greater amount of energy, and they tend to fracture brittlely, rather than bending and tearing when the stress is released.Thankfully, all these are rare events these days because the mill operators know how hard and for how long they can use their tooling; then they pull the tooling out of service before stresses build to critical levels. Originally Posted by David RI have seen them take 40' bars glowing red and run it through dies to make axle stock and things like that.  WHAT A SIGHT looks like in your pic #2.  As the bar gets smaller it travels faster.  If the bar misses a die, it turns into a 30' red hot pretzel. They called it a wreck and cut the pieces up with really long torches.  Glad you took the tour.David.
Reply:I watched the rolling mill in action at Ford's Rouge. Just like A_DAB_will_do describes; thick cherry red slabs hitting progressively narrower spaced rolls, until the steel was finally coiled as thin sheet. Seems like the line ran at something like at least 40mph, way back then. Maybe they were in a hurry to get the cars built before they would start rusting!  Thanks for the pictures Tanglediver, anxious for more!Last edited by denrep; 05-09-2008 at 01:56 PM.
Reply:Did you learn anything??...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I am glad you like them, I have a few more!  We saw the 'melt shop' as well as the 'roll shop', as they call them. The melt shop turns out square stock billets. I kept thinking, "What's that reflector tape for?" It ain't reflector tape!{Gratuitous Ford pickup shot just for you Ford guys!} On we go...closer in we came up to the slag dump. It was constantly dripping hot slag and I suppose at times would come gushing out in a semi-liquidous state.Here's a better shot.The loader at the ready to scoop hot slag was fitted with some nice sized chains for traction, or maybe as a heat shield! Here he goes with a bucket full, loading a dump truck."Did I learn anything?" Sure did, I like my 35mm camera a whole bunch more than this digital! Lunch break is almost over, more to come later!City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediver...The loader at the ready to scoop hot slag was fitted with some nice sized chains for traction, or maybe as a heat shield! Attachment 19562Here he goes with a bucket full, loading a dump truck.Attachment 19563
Reply:Sorry about the photograph quality. I can push 35mm, I know how that works a lot better. Once inside the melt shop, our first stop was at the metallurgy lab, where samples were quickly analyzed and any adjustments could be determined. So then we made our way to the control room where one man can orchestrate the heat. Here is one view of his control monitor.The thermometer was reading 2,975 degrees Farenheit, give or take.  The melt furnace here is an electric furnace which could EAT my air arc machine for a snack! HA! There are three carbon rods raised and lowered by crane that put the spark in this show.The clap of thunder when that arc hit was enough to shake the building. The top could be opened up for loading from a bucket that would easily handle a dump trucks' load of goodies!A little house keeping chore meant that a lower section of the cauldron was opened up to tend to the slag layer. A dedicated forklift with a special purpose bucket would take running stabs at the crust to brake it up. (On a side note; the ticket on that slag busting forklift alone was a cool $174,000.00) The slag pit underneath must have been deluged with an enormous lava pour when that crust broke open!!  Yes, I've been waiting to run Mr. Blob 2!! Still to come... a view of the roll shop...but first...Last edited by tanglediver; 05-09-2008 at 10:33 PM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:...we round out the melt shop with view from the catwalk leading to the billet molding operation.The heat without the protection of the control room was intense, to say the least. The molten steel now pours directly in front of another station through to molds at ground level.Now by peering out the back wall through a miniature wndow, the formed billets roll slowly out for cutting and stacking.Once we left the melt shop building, we get a close up view of hot square stock being sized for cutting.Almost done with the melt shop now...City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Cutting by remote control track burners.Here they are, some will be sold, most will be rolled into rebar.Cutting up, I said to one of the teachers along with us on the tour, "They don't really need a lot of preheat flame, I suppose." He was quick to come back because he knows me too well, "No I wouldn't think so!" Here is a nice picture, as they cool and lose that glow.They are taken away maybe a dozen at a time by forklift. BTW, each one weighs about 4000 pounds.There's a shop for you to ponder!! I need a coffee break, still uploading pics, TTYLLast edited by tanglediver; 05-09-2008 at 11:27 PM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:A few of Tanglediver's photos enhanced: Originally Posted by tanglediver...So then we made our way to the control room where one man can orchestrate the heat. Here is one view of his control monitor.Attachment 19577The top could be opened up for loading from a bucket that would easily handle a dump trucks' load of goodies!Attachment 19578...Now by peering out the back wall through a miniature wndow, the formed billets roll slowly out for cutting and stacking.Attachment 19579Once we left the melt shop building, we get a close up view of hot square stock being sized for cutting.Attachment 19580Almost done with the melt shop now...
Reply:By all means, I was as frustrated as you may have been. Knock 'em out! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:A few of Tanglediver's photos enhanced: Originally Posted by tanglediverCutting by remote control track burners.Attachment 19581Here they are, some will be sold, most will be rolled into rebar.Attachment 19582Cutting up, I said to one of the teachers along with us on the tour, "They don't really need a lot of preheat flame, I suppose." He was quick to come back because he knows me too well, "No I wouldn't think so!" Attachment 19584033They are taken away maybe a dozen at a time by forklift. BTW, each one weighs about 4000 pounds.Attachment 19583
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediver...There's a shop for you to ponder!! I need a coffee break, still uploading pics, TTYL
Reply:Its reall cool to be able to see this stuff..In a few years the place will probably be shut down for a parking lot and the operation will be out-sourced to China..Seems to be the pattern lately.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I hope not!! They have been at the same location for fifty years! OK, the reheat furnace, in the roll mill, is gas fired and can reheat a single billet in less than a minute! This is one looong building! The material is rolled thinner and thinner and travels faster as it goes.Some of the machinery...How do you like your rolls? This roll die is three or four feet long!Again, not the best photographs, almost done.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Nice stuffThank youDavid Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:You are very welcome! The tour guide told us they service all the machinery in house every month with the exception of the two big cranes in the melt shop, that's a lot of wrenching! In fact, here are some rolling machines off line for service.And a pair of roll dies that put the finish on rebar we know so well!!  One of the last steps was to cut the finished lengths. I didn't try to take a still picture because the material was travelling past the chopper at about 45 miles an hour! At the end of the roll shop the cut lengths of finished rebar are indexed off line and ready for bundling.Then it's on to the bundling station.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverI hope not!! They have been at the same location for fifty years! Attachment 19602OK, the reheat furnace, in the roll mill, is gas fired and can reheat a single billet in less than a minute! Attachment 19603This is one looong building! The material is rolled thinner and thinner and travels faster as it goes.Attachment 19604Some of the machinery...Attachment 19605
Reply:There are stacks of rolled tie wire 6' tall that uncoil into a wire feeder for bundling.The professor with one of the tour guides on the right to get some scale.The bundler.Then it is just a matter of rigging the bundles to be carried by forklift under a carriage with three chains, 2 at the ends and one in the middle. Another night shot out of range of my flash!! I hope you enjoyed these, thanks for your patience and for watching! Bye now!City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Photos enhanced: Originally Posted by tanglediverThere are stacks of rolled tie wire 6' tall that uncoil into a wire feeder for bundling.Attachment 19606The professor with one of the tour guides on the right to get some scale.Attachment 19607Attachment 19608
Reply:Thats neat. I wouldn't mind seeing it myself. Our high school class needs a field trip.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepI watched the rolling mill in action at Ford's Rouge. Just like A_DAB_will_do describes; thick cherry red slabs hitting progressively narrower spaced rolls, until the steel was finally coiled as thin sheet. Seems like the line ran at something like at least 40mph, way back then. Maybe they were in a hurry to get the cars built before they would start rusting!  Thanks for the pictures Tanglediver, anxious for more!