Hossfeld clone

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Awhile back I was all giddy and telling Steve that I found a Hossfeld bender at an estate sale for $40.  Well, got around to brushing the rust off and it turns out to be a clone, although very nice one.Long story short, I spent about the last two - three weeks making dies that I thought I should have.I'd like to hear what Hossfeld dies you find most usefull.And on to the porn.....(lets see if I can do this).....Next to smashing the dog-stuffing out of my finger one night, this is my 1st bend Well crap, whats the optimum pic size??Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Nice.  Check youtube for the vintage film/video also updated demos.Strange to see the that flat on the eye.
Reply:Used the cap rail bending die for this.  Finished it today. Attached Images
Reply:Here she is in all her glory.  The only parts I could find at the estate were the two frames, the rest I'm making up as I go.oh, and excuse the working conditions, I'm usually not even this organized Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:a little close up of the dog (pay no attention to the porosity, it's gonna be painted over  )closer up. Again, if you have children viewing, cover their eyes so's not to witness the porosity Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Well, I tried resizing on photobucket. sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.......And Tap, that's some crazy artistic railing you done.  The artistic bone in my body was broke by my 7th grade art teacher, he didn't mean to though, he was just being himself (insert jackass emoticon here).Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:I made this crazy doohickey first, even before I assembled the frames.  Got all the dimensions off the Hoss' plans floating around the 'net.  Only problem is, the original builder, God rest his soul, didn't use the same plans exactly.  Now my holes are a smidgen off from his   If I use a big hammer, I can still get it to work though And my pride'njoy, this bender bar thingyLincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:How do you use the "crazy doohickey" .  Is it a 90 degree bending tool also?  You can send it to me, it will fit mine with out hammering.  Apparently you need to make another one if you have to hammer it on.  Your "pride and joy bender bar thingy"  how did you bend it.  Yours is offset at the screw, why?.  Nice work.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelder  ...Nice work.
Reply:If you need to buy dies instead of fabbing them up, try American Bender.http://www.americanbender.com/They don't have the plethora of dies Hossfeld offers, but they sell at a cheaper rate than Hossfeld...if you can call either "cheap"!!Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Roy I was hoping you'd chime in.You gotta tell me, what are the dies you use most often.  I know it's situational, but there's gotta be a few "universal" dies that you wouldn't be without.And thanks for the link, but "cheap" is spelled "Dubl_t" I know, time vs money thing.  Well, sometimes I ain't worth $40/hr.  (hell, sometimes I ain't worth $.05/hr)but I do like tinkering with this kinda stuff, it's relaxing.Last edited by dubl_t; 06-17-2013 at 11:26 AM.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Gotta say it is all situational as far as the die sets go. What I may like may not even be worth considering for your needs/use. I do like the angle iron radius die sets in both "flange in" and "flange out", but unless you have a use for them...although the "flange out" set can be used to bend strap the "hard way"...they would be an extravagant expense. Also, I like the angle iron bender for notched angle to obtain a square joint...probably easier to fabricate yourself than those angle iron radius sets...second to the left from that factory bulldozer die you fabbed up...great addition to the Whitney angle iron notcher I have. Attached ImagesLast edited by WyoRoy; 06-17-2013 at 11:38 AM.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Do yourself, and your clone bender, a favor and grab a copy of the Hossfeld manual. Years ago I had Lo-Buck Tools...maybe it was Lo-Cost tools...whatever...send me a copy for free. The Hossfeld and clones can be damaged If you mismatch some of the tooling with the wrong pivot hole location...too much force at the wrong spot.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Thanks Roy, will do regarding the manual.  At this point I'll probably call Hossfeld and order one, maybe it'll ease the guilty feeling of pirating dies (and the whole bender, for that matter). That's a very impressive die collection, I'd hate to think how much you spent on 'em.  But I can tell you this, for a fact: I KNOW you have more $$ into dies than I had into my Land Rover I don't really have a set use for the bender, fabrication is just a hobby for me.  Mostly truck and tool related, a woodstove here and there, but I'd like to flex my puny artistic muscle one of these days and make something uber cool With that in mind, I think my next project will be a scroll bender......But I think maybe also some of those radius flat blocks would be pretty cool, maybe even useful at some point....Oh yea, here's my "bargain basement" piece of Euro Trash:I'm just glad I was chasing hounds by myself that dayLast edited by dubl_t; 06-18-2013 at 12:54 AM.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Your Euro Trash reminds me of the time I was up in the Big Horns backroading with a girlfriend in my old FJ40 Landcruiser. Following a nice snow covered road when the girlfriend told me it was about time to turn around before we got stuck. Told her, "This thing will climb a telephone pole!" Promptly got stuck and spent the night in the 'Cruiser with her and her mutt...found out the "road" was nothing more than where two snowmobiles had been going side by side. Every couple of hours she would wake up and say, "Why don'tcha go find a telephone pole so we can get the #%&*@ outta here!" Had a half gallon of wine with us, so the dog and I were content.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:+1 on getting the manual.  the hossfeld is tricky to learn, and makes you feel like an idiot when trying to figure what goes where.  the manual walks you through everything, which pin goes in which hole etc.  the hossfeld is a beautifully simple machine, while at the same time being incredibly versatile and complex.  it takes some getting used to, but once you do, you'll wonder how you ever got along without it.
Reply:I bought a Hossfeld about twenty years ago complete with almost every die the sold,  for 50 dollars.  Ive used it a lot.  Once you learn it capabilitys you use it every day. I think the patent date is gone past so You are legal to copy it if you want. I've made some trick looking deer guards with it . A lot of the parts that came with mine are hardened steel.  Mine is probably 50 years old if not older.  Mac
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoy.... I was up in the Big Horns..... Promptly got stuck and spent the night.....gallon of wine with us, so the dog and I were content.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tool MakerI bought a Hossfeld about twenty years ago complete with almost every die the sold,  for 50 dollars.  Ive used it a lot.  Once you learn it capabilitys you use it every day. I think the patent date is gone past so You are legal to copy it if you want. I've made some trick looking deer guards with it . A lot of the parts that came with mine are hardened steel.  Mine is probably 50 years old if not older.  Mac
Reply:Originally Posted by Tool MakerI bought a Hossfeld about twenty years ago complete with almost every die the sold,  for 50 dollars.  Ive used it a lot.  Once you learn it capabilitys you use it every day. I think the patent date is gone past so You are legal to copy it if you want. I've made some trick looking deer guards with it . A lot of the parts that came with mine are hardened steel.  Mine is probably 50 years old if not older.  Mac
Reply:The parts that you have made are as far as I know the most used parts. If you wish to bend u shapes on flat bar its handy to have all the parts that look like rollers with stops welded on them. When I got mine I immediately ordered a hand book  from the company. It tells how to do all the setups and it showes all the parts.  Mac
Reply:Originally Posted by app-ironworksllchttp://www.hossfeldbender.com/catalogs/index.phpI've used the catalog, available in the above link, to help set up just by the illustrations, is there an actual operators manual aside from this?
Reply:Brian, thanks for the link.  Looks like some good videos in their tutorial section also.-I didn't find a "manual" available, and wonder if this would be it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hossfeld-2-B...item43bcfe5e31Or if this guy is just selling what can be downloaded for free from the factory?Roy,in your last pic, there's a huge boat anchor looking thing smack dab in the middle of all the other tooling, what's that for?Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Originally Posted by dubl_tBrian, thanks for the link.  Looks like some good videos in their tutorial section also.-I didn't find a "manual" available, and wonder if this would be it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hossfeld-2-B...item43bcfe5e31Or if this guy is just selling what can be downloaded for free from the factory?Roy,in your last pic, there's a huge boat anchor looking thing smack dab in the middle of all the other tooling, what's that for?
Reply:Heres mine.I think your home made dies are great.I would suggest you make extra tall pins- really simple to do, and really really useful.Hossfeld makes long center pins, the 1" size, and I use mine all the time. I also have 2 extra tall 3/4" pins, one of em with a dab of weld bead on it so it doesnt fall thru the hole on the swinging frame.The three tall pins allow you to freehand bend all kinds of things on top of the hossfeld, where the frame and pins dont get in the way.Here, I am bending circles, using another thing you can make easily- I have pieces of schedule 40 pipe, each about 3" tall, in every size I can find. Then, you can bend circles or arcs to repeatable diameters, ranging from 1" (using the pin only) up to 8" or so, on top of the hossfeld.I also would make a degree ring- then you can make a stop, and then you can do repeatable angles. The degree ring from hossfeld is flat bar bent the hard way, but you could just use a solid disc of 3/16" or 1/4" plate, cut a few access holes in it.The ability to repeat a bend over and over is really handy. Mine has the sticker with degrees on it- I bought that from American Bender- but I find it really doesnt help much, and I have messed it up by constantly tightening the bolt on the stop anyway.Also, you really want extension handles.A new hossfeld comes with two 4 foot extensions, and you can use one or both. 4 feet is a lot of leverage, but I find plenty of times when I use all 8 feet of handle- especially with things like 1 3/4" pipe. Attached ImagesLast edited by Ries; 06-28-2013 at 09:10 PM.note the pile of scale on floor in front of bender.
Reply:Hey, it just falls off by itself. I do sweep it up when it gets higher than my shoes.
Reply:Thanks Ries,I appreciate your input on what else I might need.  I'm working on the handles now.  The original builder of my frames didn't get the clearance right on the swing frame so a handle sandwiched between the halves won't work, as far as I can see.Yea, I should make some longer pins. I could see how that'd be handy.You've got quite a colection of dies, do you use those flat faced bender thingies much? (2nd shelf up from floor).Hey also, I'm guessing you welded some sort of  center on your collection of schedule 40 radius dies?  I've wondered how stout they would have to be.Last edited by dubl_t; 06-30-2013 at 02:20 PM.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:The second shelf up are angle iron, flange out, dies.These would not be feasible to make- they need to be big solid blocks of metal, you would need to start out with 3" square bar, at the least. So casting them, like hossfeld does, is faster, cheaper, and easier than trying to whittle them from huge 4" slab.I use them all the time. If you set up the angle iron, flange out, die, you can then put in matching pairs of dies for different radiuses. I hardly ever use them for angle iron.Instead, I bend round bar, square bar, and flat bar both the easy and the hard way, into arcs and circles with them. For instance, lets say I need a couple dozen 16" circles made from 5/8" round bar- I put in the 8" radius dies, and knock em out in a half hour or so. All of them are exactly round, exactly the same size, and exactly 16" OD. I used to make bar stools with that particular ring as the foot ring. Or, say I need 1 1/4" x 1/8" wall square tubing bent into an arc for the roof of my carport- I use the 36" radius dies, but I mark the square tubing every foot, and, rather than bending the whole thing, I only put a bend at each 12" mark. I end up with a 20 foot or so diameter curvature for the curved roof of my carport.Those things are really really handy. As for the pieces of cut off pipe- nope, no center ring or support is needed. You just cut a 3" long piece of pipe- I have 1", 1 1/2", 1 3/4", 2", 2 1/2", 3", 4", 5", and 6" pipe pieces like this. They rotate around the long 1" center pin, so the area being bent against is always supported by the center pin- it works great, and its easy to make them. In the picture, I am bending 3/8" round hot rolled into a big spiral around some 3" pipe. I bend a 10' length or so, into a loose spiral, then go over to the band saw, and slice em into circles. Then I tweak em a bit in the big vise with a 24" crescent wrench, to get em flat, go back to the hossfeld and tighten em up a bit into a tight circle. Weld em together, and get 4" circles by the dozen. One thing I do a lot of is bending hot. I often will use the hossfeld on stuff right out of the forge- it increases your ability to get exactly the bend you want in bigger stuff- for instance, I made a drive shaft ring for my mini-tractor, to support a front end loader, from 1" x 4" flat bar. Got the whole thing hot, and was able to bend a nice tight U shape, about 6" ID, very easily. I did use the full 8 feet of handle for that.
Reply:Fascinating.Thanks again Ries.I'll take your word for it regarding the centering of the pipe radii dies, but do you think they would work easier if they were centered on the main pin?And yea, I kinda figured I "need" some of those flat faced radius dies Got any ideas for my handle? The gap in my swing frame is 1/2" tapering to 7/16" in order to keep the "holy" part parallel.  I could re-bend one frame to square it up, but still 1/2" ain't much room to work with.  I feel something bolted on top or bottom would put undue strain on bending (sort of a twisting force), so am thinking an adapter of sorts bolted top and bottom to distrubute force evenly.  Hydro assist, at this point, is out of the question.Thanks for your (and others) input.Roy, you still here?Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Originally Posted by dubl_tRoy, you still here?
Reply:Why cant you just grind a bit of a taper into the end of a big piece of flat bar, to sandwich it for a handle?If you use a piece of 1/2" x 3" flat bar, six or eight inches long, then you can make a handle that slides over that. The real one is squashed 1 1/2" pipe- they just flatten it on a press brake. Then, the second four foot handle is just a piece of flat bar. But you could use pipe, not squished, as long as you welded up some sort of slip joint.The pipe dies would actually work worse if you centered them. Unless you made them from solid. Hossfeld does make some dies like this that are solid cast iron cylinders with a hole down the middle. But the pipe works because it has no center- the actual bending takes place where the pipe is pressed right up against the center pin. The center pin supports the pipe and keeps it from crushing. Plus, that way, you dont have to move the bending dog- thats the angled block that you made that has the slot in it. The bending dog can stay on the same pin, whether its a 2" pipe, or an 8" pipe.
Reply:Hey Roy,Thanks for the Simonian links.  Looks like an extremely handy on-site tool.Yea, Ries kinda summed up my handle scenario.  I do have some 1/2" x5" flat bar I can use, but it's like one of my old instructors used to say, "sometimes the easiest and most obvious answer isn't the best".  Since I don't need my bender "yesterday" (like most my projects), I can afford to dream up a "better" mouse trap....in fact, dambit. I need that Simonian bender tomorrow.  I've got 48 pieces of #3 rebar 40" long I need to bend into Z's.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Originally Posted by Ries... But the pipe works because it has no center- the actual bending takes place where the pipe is pressed right up against the center pin. The center pin supports the pipe and keeps it from crushing. Plus, that way, you dont have to move the bending dog- thats the angled block that you made that has the slot in it. The bending dog can stay on the same pin, whether its a 2" pipe, or an 8" pipe.
Reply:I guess I'm a bit on the dense side today...still don't understand what your problem is with the handle. If it is that there isn't enough space between the two horizontals, and you have a shop press handy, they aren't difficult to bend up. Took a pair of welder's ViseGrips to keep the flat bar stationary on the shop press and another pair or two of regular ViseGrips to keep a large lathe tool bit where I wanted it on the bar to bear against. Check out the  "L" handle frame sitting in the base of my bender cart. I went to a lot of unneeded extra work fitting a slot for my bender's handle and need to remove that some day...never use the frame on any other than hydraulic. Attached ImagesLincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:double postLast edited by Ries; 07-02-2013 at 11:41 AM.
Reply:Funny, I would never want hydraulic on my hossfeld. I have a big hydraulic press, I have a brake and rolls and other powered bending equipment- but for the hossfeld, the fact that you have tactile feedback- that is, that you can FEEL the part bending- is a big plus for me. I do a lot of freehand bending on the hossfeld, where I have a drawing, and I bend to match the drawing- so I could never use hydraulic for it. Even when I need a couple hundred of the same part, I just knock em out with the extension handles. I have had my hossfeld since 1978 or so, and I have bent literally hundreds of thousands of parts on it, and I am no Arnold Schwartznegger. Here are a couple of pics - the first one shows exactly why you dont want a centered die for your ring bending- its a larger scale example than a hossfeld, but the principle is exactly the same. you want the die supporting the bend. the second one is a sculpture I made a few years ago, mostly freehand on top of the hossfeld, although I used pipes and other fixed radius dies for some parts of it. Its 3/8" and 1/2" round, freehand bent to match a full sized drawing on butcher paper. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyI guess I'm a bit on the dense side today...still don't understand what your problem is with the handle.
Reply:Around here, only rich people can afford to keep driving old internationals. The owner of a local boatyard has a perfectly restored 49 or so IH pickup. Its very pretty.  But CATs do daily work- construction equipment, ag, equipment, and truck engines, on an average day, about 4 dozen Cat products will drive by my place, and in an average month, maybe 2 Internationals. We are in prime farming country, its not uncommon to see 2 or 3 rubber tracked Cat tractors pulling discs, or to see dozers, backhoes, graders, and excavators. Plus, I live about five miles from the paccar secret test facility, so I see Kenworths and Peterbilts daily, doing test drives with every kind of engine, new body mods, and secret under the hood stuff. I dont think they drop International's in any of those, but I know they run some Cats.
Reply:Lol.Yea Ries, you're right about Cats ...but they're still expensive to work on [IMG][/IMG]Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....