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So I have finally figured out how to do a half way descent filet weld. The issue I am now coming into is that the weld seems to take on a very dull almost chalky look.. The surface seems to be fairly crackly.Anyone have any idea what is up. I have tried more gas, less gas, tungsten in, tungsten out, more of this, less of that with no help. When I lay a bead on flat aluminum I dont have this issue it is only when trying a filet weld. I cant seem to get that pretty bright shiny look I see from others.Using an older transformer machine. 1/16th cerriated tungsten with 3/32 4043 filler rod. Pushing around 100 A I think
Reply:Originally Posted by Userkc14419So I have finally figured out how to do a half way descent filet weld. The issue I am now coming into is that the weld seems to take on a very dull almost chalky look.. The surface seems to be fairly crackly.Anyone have any idea what is up. I have tried more gas, less gas, tungsten in, tungsten out, more of this, less of that with no help. When I lay a bead on flat aluminum I dont have this issue it is only when trying a filet weld. I cant seem to get that pretty bright shiny look I see from others.Using an older transformer machine. 1/16th cerriated tungsten with 3/32 4043 filler rod. Pushing around 100 A I think
Reply:I agree with shovelon - 1/16 is too small at 100 amps AC.Could you provide more info? Material thickness, gas setting?Pic would be great.Check out weldingtipsandtricks.com and look up the aluminum drill.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:AC frequency? AC balance? If any that is. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:I'd also have to guess you are overheating the material. 100 amps is low in the heat range for 3/32" alum. 3/32" filler makes me think you are running say 1/8" material. You need a bigger tungsten, and probably more amps.Picts and all the details will help greatly, especially material thickness..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I will try to get a pic up this afternoon. I need to set up a site that will host them first.Here is a little more info on what im working with.Older Hobart tr-250-hfNo wave balance or HZ adjustment. Just plain AC running around 100A1/16 ceriated tungsten3/32 filler 40431/8 material thicknessI am going to go out now to try a 3/32 electrode. I was using the larger size when I first started but felt like I couldnt get the control I needed. So I went smaller and it seemed to work. I will go back with the larger size and see what happens.
Reply:One of your problems is your tungsten selection..Your machine is a TRANSFORMER and they LOVE Red end tungsten..Go with 3/32" sharpened to a fine point like a pencil..Crank it up to around 250 amps and with the pedal in use you will see a huge improvement.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Cup size and gas flow?Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I believe a size 7 cupgas has been varied from 15 - 25 cfm seems best around 15 - 20I will try some red... I thought I had read where the orange was better so I was giving it a shot
Reply:Originally Posted by Userkc14419I believe a size 7 cupgas has been varied from 15 - 25 cfm seems best around 15 - 20I will try some red... I thought I had read where the orange was better so I was giving it a shot
Reply:I can second what Zap said. My old machine works just fine with thoriated "red" tungsten.We were just running some 1/8"+ aluminum, had it set about 220 amps and used the pedal.Makes the puddle fast, then back it off Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:okay, so a quick update... I threw some 3/32" thoriated (red) in and went to town. I agree I do like the red better than the orange. The orange is a close second, but the red seems to have more focus with the arc.I am still getting the same results. I even went back to 1/16" and feel that I get better results. With 3/32 it just seems like I dont get the control I can get with the 1/16" The smaller electrode doesnt seem to mind as its not wasting away or anything. ???????I also put an amp meter on the lead so I could get an idea of exactly what kind of output I am working with. I set the machine so that when the pedal was at max I was running right at 100 amp. When welding I was probably using 75% of the pedal so if I had to estimate I was running somewhere around 75 amp ac.So another rundownTransformer 75 amp output AC high freq onno wave balance or freq settings. straight 60 hz15-20 cfm1/16" - 3/32" thoriated (red)3/32" 4043 fillerran the electrode out of the cup anywhere from 1/16" - 1/4"1/8" aluminum purchased from tractors supply.100% argonI know someone mentioned that it was from too much heat... I just dont see how that can be. Im not even hitting 100 amp and am moving at what I consider an average speed. Or im at least not setting in one place for very longIll post a pic shortly.. everything is cooling
Reply:http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1364076454
Reply:OK..I have gone over this whole thread and you don't say anything about cleaning before hand..Read this.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...hlight=acetoneAnd another thing..100 Amps with 1/8" material and 3/32" filler = Not much happening..I looked at your pic..COLD!!!!!!!!You have more material and filler than amps..PUSH IT!In the thread above I was using the EXACT same machine you are running so I know it will do what you want..Trust me.,,,,,AMPS MAN AMPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Put the lever in hi range and crank the weld current knob to 80 and THEN tell us what happened.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
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Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterOK..I have gone over this whole thread and you don't say anything about cleaning before hand..Read this.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...hlight=acetoneAnd another thing..100 Amps with 1/8" material and 3/32" filler = Not much happening..I looked at your pic..COLD!!!!!!!!You have more material and filler than amps..PUSH IT!In the thread above I was using the EXACT same machine you are running so I know it will do what you want..Trust me.,,,,,AMPS MAN AMPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Put the lever in hi range and crank the weld current knob to 80 and THEN tell us what happened.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by Userkc14419okay, so a quick update... I threw some 3/32" thoriated (red) in and went to town. I agree I do like the red better than the orange. The orange is a close second, but the red seems to have more focus with the arc.I am still getting the same results. I even went back to 1/16" and feel that I get better results. With 3/32 it just seems like I dont get the control I can get with the 1/16" The smaller electrode doesnt seem to mind as its not wasting away or anything. ???????I also put an amp meter on the lead so I could get an idea of exactly what kind of output I am working with. I set the machine so that when the pedal was at max I was running right at 100 amp. When welding I was probably using 75% of the pedal so if I had to estimate I was running somewhere around 75 amp ac.So another rundownTransformer 75 amp output AC high freq onno wave balance or freq settings. straight 60 hz15-20 cfm1/16" - 3/32" thoriated (red)3/32" 4043 fillerran the electrode out of the cup anywhere from 1/16" - 1/4"1/8" aluminum purchased from tractors supply.100% argonI know someone mentioned that it was from too much heat... I just dont see how that can be. Im not even hitting 100 amp and am moving at what I consider an average speed. Or im at least not setting in one place for very longIll post a pic shortly.. everything is cooling
Reply:So I just went out and tried cranking up the ole girl... Blew through the material before I ever was ever able press the pedal half way. I tried using the weld current knob to see if I could fine tune the machine but really ended up right back in the same situation. using 3/32 electrode (red)Now keep this in mind as well. I am able to weld a flat surface without the same issues. Prolly should have mentioned that earlier. Sorry!!!! This only seems to be an issue when working with a filet weld.Also thought I should mention that these are pretty small sample pieces. I'm using this stuff that I get at tractors supply which is 1" x 1/8" x 72" I just cut them into 5" strips so I can practice .Could it be from crappy aluminum ??????? im lost at this point. The welds that I am able to produce seem to be very solid. To be honest If it were something that didnt need to be visually appealing I would be perfectly happy. Still yet I should be able to produce the nice shiny weld that I have seen. Or at least close
Reply:It could be crappy alum. Could your strips be anodized?Coupons that small will heat up pretty fast. Sounds like a tricky joint then. How about cutting some longer coupons, like 6 inches, weld some as butt joints, then take those weldments and make fillet coupons. That way it would take much longer for the weldment to saturate with heat.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:The average rule of thumb with steel tig is 1 amp per .001" of thickness. With alum you will need more amps to get the puddle to form quickly to combat the fact alum is such a great heat sink. I usually suggest at least 15-20% more amps to get the puddle to start fast enough. Minimum amps I'd use for 1/8" alum with students is 150 amps. However I set my machine higher, 180-200 amps is fairly common for me because I like the puddle to for very fast. With the machine set higher, I simply wouldn't push the pedal all the way to the floor to get the amps I need to get rolling.We like to use 150 amps because I can generally just tell a student to floor the machine to get the puddle to go. It forms a bit slower than I like, but it helps them avoid blowing holes when they don't back down fast enough. As soon as the puddle forms, you have to GO! You can't sit a dawdle and think about what you want to do. You need to be moving and moving quickly and at the same time you need to be backing down on your amps to maintain the puddle size because the material is heating up very fast. This is especially true with small pieces of material that can't keep wicking away the heat.What is happening with the way you are doing it is that the material is slowly heating up until most of it is fairly close to the temp to form a puddle. Then you finally get a puddle to form, but the whole thing is super hot. It seems counter intuitive, but MORE amps actually equals LESS total heat input into the material, not more. The puddle can cool rapidly behind you because the material pulls the heat from the weld. Most alum is tempered or hardened in some way to increase it's strength over the dead soft state. When you over heat the material, you anneal it and make it all soft in the HAZ. With more amps your HAZ is fairly small, and the filler can offset the weakened alum with the additional alloying contents.When you have issues with alum, your answer usually is to up your amps and go faster not try to slow down. Usually most newer students haven't gotten the basics down to the point yet where heat control is instinctive. When the try to go faster, they crash and burn, so the natural instinct is to slow down, and have problems. With alum many times you need to be thinking about 3 steps ahead of where you are and not simply reacting to what is going on now. You need to learn to recognize the small signs that things are starting to get out of control in advance of when they are almost unrecoverable.With students and T joints the issue is almost always with the vertical plate. The thin edge won't take the heat the flat plate will. You need to get the puddle to form and bridge the two as quickly as possible so they act as one vs having the upper plate simply blow away. we have students do the following with all materials. Beads on flat plate. Beads overlapping 50% over the previous bead. Then lap joints followed by T joints followed by outside corners and finally but joints. Each is harder than the previous one and builds on the skill set you learned previously. My guess is you jumped straight to T's and skipped lap joints.Last edited by DSW; 03-23-2013 at 07:15 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by Userkc14419So I just went out and tried cranking up the ole girl... Blew through the material before I ever was ever able press the pedal half way. I tried using the weld current knob to see if I could fine tune the machine but really ended up right back in the same situation. using 3/32 electrode (red)Now keep this in mind as well. I am able to weld a flat surface without the same issues. Prolly should have mentioned that earlier. Sorry!!!! This only seems to be an issue when working with a filet weld.Also thought I should mention that these are pretty small sample pieces. I'm using this stuff that I get at tractors supply which is 1" x 1/8" x 72" I just cut them into 5" strips so I can practice .Could it be from crappy aluminum ??????? im lost at this point. The welds that I am able to produce seem to be very solid. To be honest If it were something that didnt need to be visually appealing I would be perfectly happy. Still yet I should be able to produce the nice shiny weld that I have seen. Or at least close
Reply:I also missed part of your original post. 5" aluminum strips that are 1" wide will be hard for a beginner to practice on.They are so small they can become saturated with heat quickly and then your weld control will go to heck.Cut them 2 feet long and you will notice you have better control of heat. Same amount of practice in the long run - just easier.Try little stuff later when you have more experience Look up the aluminum welding drill on weldingtipsandtricks.com or youtube and you will see what happens when aluminum gets too hot. Ripples go away, gets grainy, looks like solder.Don't sneak up on the heat - hammer the pedal, make a puddle, start moving - good luck Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Well I have been back at it. The good news is that I can complete what I consider to be a solid filet weld. The bad news is I have not figured out how to get the nice shiny bead im looking for. LOLI have tired more amps and less amps. I have tried 1/16 and 3/32 tungsten. I have tried red orange and green tungsten. I cut a couple pieces of aluminum into 1" x 15" strips so i could try with a larger sample and only received slightly better results.Im kinda lost now. I watched the videos and feel like im moving as fast or in some instances faster than the guy in the video. I have trained myself to immediately blast the material in order to form the puddle then get moving. Im still getting the same result. Im going to see if I can grab some aluminum sheet this week and work with the training drills from welding tips and tricks. It will also give me a chance to see if material may play a part.What makes no sense to me is that I can weld on a piece of 1"x4" aluminum strip and receive great results. I can weld on its edge, end, or flat surface and everything is fine. When I try to but a piece onto another for a t joint I get crappy results.Good thing I dont do this for a living.
Reply:on another note... What would cause you to literally blow the puddle out of the material. I was screwing with some 1/4" aluminum and had the heat cranked up. I would immediately blast the material to get a puddle formed but it was like something was blowing the puddle out. It would start shaking etc like someone was blowing it with an air hose. Kinda like the hz was causing it to shake ????any thoughts
Reply:Two thoughts - welding great on flat and edges but having problems with inside corner would seem to indicate an arc length issue. Too long will cause problems.Second, does your puddle act like it's being blown out only for the first second or so? If it does you could be experiencing that blast of argon that occurs right at the start. I have to tap my pedal to purge that blast and then it's fine.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveTwo thoughts - welding great on flat and edges but having problems with inside corner would seem to indicate an arc length issue. Too long will cause problems.Second, does your puddle act like it's being blown out only for the first second or so? If it does you could be experiencing that blast of argon that occurs right at the start. I have to tap my pedal to purge that blast and then it's fine.Dave J.
Reply:Originally Posted by Userkc14419 It would start shaking etc like someone was blowing it with an air hose. Kinda like the hz was causing it to shake ????any thoughts
Reply:Originally Posted by Userkc14419Yeah, I thought about that as well and purged the lines. No luck. It seems like if I allow the material to heat up some its a non issue. However if its cold and I blast is right off the bat it wants to shake the puddle right out of the stock.I will play around with a few different tungsten lengths. Maybe I dont have the correct length.
Reply:Shovelon, I have noticed you recommend sharpening the tungsten for Al and have heard that from others in past threads. Does it weld better, narrower bead, or what? I have always used pure (green) and a small balled tip. I might have to try pointing it to see the difference.
Reply:Blackbart - here are some pics that may help you on the effects of tungsten grind angle.Dave J. Attached ImagesDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:A blunt crayon like point seems to work well with certain tungstens like Lanthanated. The tip will just slightly ball. You get a much narrower arc than you do with say pure.The day instructor at the tech school is "old school" and they have 1/8" pure for use on the Syncrowave 250's there for doing 1/8" alum. I prefer to use 1/8" or 3/32" lantahnated at my place on my Syncrowave 200, ground to a crayon point, since it seems to give me a little bit more control over the arc, especially when doing say outside corners..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Well stay tuned. Im going to try to find a camcorder and take a couple videos to post. I have watched several youtube vidoes trying to get an idea of the proper speed and feel like im in the ballpark. So maybe I can post a vid and somone can point out the flaw.
Reply:That's where I am with my sync 300. Approximately 60 degree thoriated tungsten w a micro land. 3/32 upto about 150-175A.Syncrowave 300Maxtron 450, S-52E, 30A
Reply:For aluminum you can put me down for about 60 degrees and a little flat spot with thoriated on an old Airco (Miller).It just balls up a little bit and works good for me. Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I have always used pure, green, and ball the tip about the same as the electrode. However I do not do tons of tig and I'm running an econotig. Next time I practice I'm going to have to try different ones.
Reply:so ive been searching a lot today while at work and am reading several posts on different boards about people having what appears to be the same problem. Several have said they switched to 5356 rod and it eliminated the issue. something to do with a lower silicon content in the rod.Any thoughts???
Reply:Since the same practice material and rod work fine for anything but inside corners, I believe we are talking about technique issues.Dave J.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 03-25-2013 at 07:36 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartShovelon, I have noticed you recommend sharpening the tungsten for Al and have heard that from others in past threads. Does it weld better, narrower bead, or what? I have always used pure (green) and a small balled tip. I might have to try pointing it to see the difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by Userkc14419so ive been searching a lot today while at work and am reading several posts on different boards about people having what appears to be the same problem. Several have said they switched to 5356 rod and it eliminated the issue. something to do with a lower silicon content in the rod.Any thoughts???
Reply:[QUOTE=shovelon;2441481] I loves the TriMix brand. The crew gets blue, I get TriMix. /[QUOTE]I run Tri-mix on everything exept the Dynasty, It HATES it. Every thing but the Dynasty is DC inverter Tig on SS only . I run the Dynasty with pink (cryo treated red) in it for stainless/mild and blue for aluminum. We sharpen to 36 deg for anything under 100 amps for the start quality. Under a microscope @ 25amps you need good starts. Anything above that we run them at 35 to 60 deg depending on the job. I always wondered how popular the Tri-mix was, it does not get mentioned very often.(Home)Miller Maxstar 152 (sold)MM211/spool gunLincoln AC 225C(Work)Dynasty 350Powcon 300STLincoln SP-175TWeldlodgic AWS150sWeldlodgic AWS300Custom Resistance seam weldersCambridge Vacuum EB weldersI smell something burning.
Reply:[quote=atari;2443061][QUOTE=shovelon;2441481] I loves the TriMix brand. The crew gets blue, I get TriMix. /I run Tri-mix on everything exept the Dynasty, It HATES it. Every thing but the Dynasty is DC inverter Tig on SS only . I run the Dynasty with pink (cryo treated red) in it for stainless/mild and blue for aluminum. We sharpen to 36 deg for anything under 100 amps for the start quality. Under a microscope @ 25amps you need good starts. Anything above that we run them at 35 to 60 deg depending on the job. I always wondered how popular the Tri-mix was, it does not get mentioned very often.
Reply:So off topic but something that will still have an overall effect. Is there a simple way for me to know what type of base metal I am welding ???????
Reply:Know what you are buying or read what is printed on the material. Other than that, you have to guess, or send it out for analysis. Not all alum alloys are weldable. If it's been welded before, chances are you can do it again though..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonWhat did you use TriMix for that you hated it? It holds a ball like no tomarrow on AC, which is what I depend on it for. On DC it is still not as good as Red, which is what you are using Cryo on. I have not tried the cryo. Is it 4% thoriated? |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:50:15