Advice for the wonderful chaos of welding schoo?l

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So I have officially started welding school. We read studied and test the first week and then hit the floor on Monday. We started with stick welding and were given the 6010 rods and told to start in the flat position without any further instruction other than being shown how to connect and start the machine which is a Miller XMT 350. I like this machine a lot. Our instructors while not bad guys don't offer much in the way of instruction unless you pull on them. I suppose that is to be expect with 30 or more students and only 3 teachers. We are more or less teaching ourselves to weld for the most part. I have moved past the 6010's in all position and am not stuck at T-joint using 7018's which I like much better. I was terribly sick for more than a year and had become very inactive. I have made a lot of progress this year though and thought I could tackle welding school but I am finding out that my body, especially my back disagrees with me. The grinders really hurt my back due to being hunched over like that but I am managing. My hope is that my body will adjust over the next few weeks. Another guy and myself are at the top of our class and there is one guy who seems to truly hate that. He claimed that he was a dive welder and yet he failed his tests in the classroom and fails his welding tests out on the floor. He kisses up real hard to the instructors and stalks my booth every 30 minutes. I think he wants to get me in trouble somehow. He doesn't relay messages to me when the instructor tells him to which makes me look like I'm ignoring them when I had no idea. He whispers rude things when he walks past me in front of the instructors and I think it's so I get angry and yell something back in front them. I ain't falling for his games but it seems to make him angrier. More or less he is that guy at work that can't stand on his own skill so he endears himself to the bosses and then rats out everyone for anything he can. It's a bit stressful but I'm dealing with it ok for now. I don't complain to the instructors about him because they are a  "don't whine about it" kind of group. In spite of some of these obstacles, I am still enjoying myself and love welding so far. I have serious anxieties about getting work though, once this is over and hope that I can at least get an apprenticeship somewhere. I have made some pretty welds and the most experienced and certified instructor likes my welds. The class is 400 hours and I need to learn Stick, MIG and Flux and get certified before my time is up which is not much time. The school schedule is Mon-Thur 7am to 5:30pm. I really have to push myself every day. After reading my long rant, does anyone have any advice or words of encouragement they can offer?
Reply:Wherever you are there are people that never left high school.  Best thing it so politely ignore and get down to your own business.  Three instructors for 30 students is golden.  Typical is 18 to 20 for most vocational classes with a few dropping out on the way.   7:30 to 5:30 is a long day.  Even with breaks that is nine hours in a booth.  Welding is a manual art so best thing to do is break your day up between cutting and preparing your pieces and welding in the booth.  Better to do an intense hour or so practicing then take a break doing other tasks before going back at it.   Occasionally back track on your exercises.  Do some 6010 exercise and check that you have not forgotten.  When you learn something you gradually forget the material ... until say a week later you have forgotten 50%.  If you go back to the learned material after say 2 days you have lost maybe 10 %.  You do a practice and re-learn the skill.  Now the rate of forgetting changes and instead of forgetting 50 % in a week you will only forget 30 % of the material.  Rinse and repeat until you are not losing the skill even after a month.  From then on it is like riding a bicycle ...you never forget.   It does not matter if you are learning theory or practical.  This rate of forgetting is universal for everyone.  Regular review will permanently embed the learned material.
Reply:Don't be afraid to ask for help or opinions from your instructors. I mostly help those who show an interest in learning. There's one guy in the current class that is having problems and is well behind the others. However almost every time I swing by his booth he's not there. Arrives late, leaves early, spends more than 1/2 the class time either on his phone or out having a smoke... It's not that I won't help him, it's that others who are showing more interest usually come to me and ask for comments or help. I take care of them 1st, then wander around and check on everyone else who is in the booth. If you aren't there, I can't help.Some guys I see fairly regularly. They stop as they pass me going to or from the quench tank and ask my opinion on the welds they have done. That or they will wait outside the booth of the person I'm helping to stop me when I leave and ask me to help them with a problem they are having. They listen and apply what I try and show them..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thank you both for the great advice. I plan to keep trying to put my best foot forward this week and did so for the most part last week until the last day, I was pretty worn out and did not stay in my both all day as I had the previous days. I'm hoping my body adjusts and I'm not feeling so broke down by the end of the week this time. I really need to get these certs and find some sort of work. DSW yes that is pretty much my interaction with my teachers, I pass them on the way to the quench tank and talk briefly and then head back to the booth. Hopefully I can develop a better working relationship with them in the coming weeks and keep my eye on the prize even when my back starts hurting.
Reply:If you are having physical problems welding in a booth you are going to be in a world of hurt when you get into the real world of welding  !  Whether its pipe work, or structural or repair work you will be climbing around,  dragging hundreds of feet of lead, grinding, cutting and gouging.   All the certifications in the world wont help you if you cant do the job because you are too sore.Journeyman / Red Seal Welder (What a useless test)Miller CST 280Miller XMT 350Miller 12vs XtremeEvolution Evo 28 mag drillEvolution 380 Dry Cut saw
Reply:X2 on what Newfie said.If you can finish the school, the chances of the issues "going away" is slim. Have you tried supports, or anything to help with the back?Just wondering, but are you overweight? Being active and in good shape will help the back immensely at work. And people like that other guy are everywhere, ,schools, offices, shops, just ignore the people who are trying to screw with you. (As you are doing).
Reply:Maybe your instructors are seeing what you can do on your own and then they'll show you where you can improve? Makes no sense to me why they would start you off with 6010. Unless the instructors are truly lazy and/or blind, they'll know who's trying hard and who's trying to hard cause trouble. Too many people in the world think it makes them look better to criticize others and unfortunately welding is no exception. Some instructors do wait until you ask them for help. Ask them before you run into big problems. I agree if you have back problems, it's not likely to get better on the job. I have some back problems and was working in a shop building winch trucks. Just hopping off the truck to the floor did a number on my back. You can't have a step all the time. Maybe a back brace like used for lifting or even a kidney belt like used for MX will help?Last edited by Welder Dave; 12-07-2014 at 06:17 PM.
Reply:Thanks for the advice everyone. I am a bit overweight. As I said I was sick for some time and put on some weight but to be honest I think it's the leaning forward motion at certain angles that is doing it. The tables that I am grinding on are sort of right at my waist level and I have to bend just enough to put maximum strain on my back. Years ago I worked on an assembly line packing bottles and had a similar set up and similar problems but I was 115 lbs and in great shape when I had this issue. I am fine while welding for the most part unless I just finished up grinding. Pretty much everyone else in the shop has the exact same complaint and most of them are young slim guys. I agree that I need to do something though and get more fit. I have been working on this for awhile and have gotten so much better. I still have a long road ahead of me though but looking back on where I came from to where I am now, I can say that I have made great strides in my health. I do need to continue getting healthier and I should look into a leather back brace also.
Reply:If the grinding is that hard on your back you are not doing it right. The grinder is a machine not a file you don't have to put all that much down pressure on it , and if you are fighting to control the grinder you need to change the angle of attack . Are you using 4.5" grinders or 7"/9". gxbxc
Reply:If grinding is killing your back Id consider welding a hobby and not a future career.  I know I responded above but Id hate to see someone spend a load of money on schooling only to have it not work out.  You may think its only grinding that bothers your back but it wont be.  If the minor amount of grinding you do in school bothers your back the grinding you will do at work wont be near as fun.  Grinding over head,  down under things you can't see.  Then there is the welding part of it.  Might not bother you now in a nice easily accessible booth,  but out on site welding you could be welding an overhead joint for DAYS !!!!!  Or you could be in your knees welding.  Can't turn ships, oil rigs, buildings, piping systems upside down.  Then there is the position of some of these welds.  Last night I was up in the rack welding on shoes,  a job that should have been done before the pipe went in the rack.  No way could I get comfortable under the pipe to see,  line of site was off, cramped and bent all out of shape, welding overhead.  I was like it for ten hours.  Then tonight I had to tie in a couple of 4 inch sch 40 pipes,  tig root, hot and then cap with 7018.  Great right, sounds easy !  NOT  where these welds were located there was an I beam right next to the inside pipe.  Couldn't get your head in there to see it to root it properly.  So right away I had to lean in over the pipe and "shoot the gap"  or "look through the gap" and weld the root.  Fine the root is down  easy I could "shoot the gap".  I now have to weld the hot pass.  I manage to prop some lumber against the beam (for me to half assedly prop myself against) and get my head kind of under the pipe and start the hot pass and I go up  until I lose my line of sight then it is all feel.  I weld up high enough so I can look in over the top of the pipe and finish the hot pass.  I repeat the same procedure for the cap.BTW as a welder Engineers will make your life he!!.Journeyman / Red Seal Welder (What a useless test)Miller CST 280Miller XMT 350Miller 12vs XtremeEvolution Evo 28 mag drillEvolution 380 Dry Cut saw
Reply:Hey Kevin get school done then work on your body, look into other less demanding trades that you can fall back on. Nevermind the a$s licker because this world is full of them, around here those types of guys have a very short life span Good Luck and hope everything works out for you.
Reply:Stretch your back Every day, you will be amazed at how much better you feel.Also check the ergonomics of  how you are doing things.  Sometimes an inch higher or lower work height does help a lot.As far as the bully:Just keep asking him how you can make welds "just like his"...As you lay down better beads all along. And smiling!Oh, and grinding does get easier as you get more comfortable doing it.Last edited by WeldingMachine; 12-08-2014 at 06:26 AM.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:Planks helped me with my back problems.  They strengthen your core (abs included) which helps your back.  I do 1 minute planks, then do something else for five minutes, then another plank....over the period of 30 minutes....six total.  Worked wonders.  Here's how, but I could never do a five minute plank like this guy is talking about...but then again, I'm 72 and he's not .  Give it a try.
Reply:Kevin ,     at EVERY opportunity adjust the work to fit you (at least when possible).  If you can bring the work (and machine controls) up to you instead of bending down to it, your chances of getting through the day will improve immensely.   If you are tall, raise the table or bench with cinder blocks.   If you can't do that, prop things up as much as you can.   I don't practice what I preach (much), and am paying the price every year I get older.    Repetitive motion injuries cost business billions of dollars, and therefore adjustable work spaces are becoming increasingly popular with employers.  You may not be a good fit for all jobs, but you will find something.