SA200 Remote/Wiring

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Hello to everyone,I'm new to this site and the sa200 in general. Sitting in my shop is a 1979 sa200. With the switch turned to local it will instantly go to high idle and weld. Once it is switched to remote it will not go to high idle. And if I drag the rod across a piece of steel it only sparkles.  If my understanding is correct. While the machine was running the remote was plugged in and switched to remote. Which in turn damaged the local/remote switch? (I assume it can't pass power)I have some questions. If that is what damaged the switch why does that happen when the remote is plugged in like that?Also, its my understanding that I can eliminate the ext. cord plug in and install an isolated ground receptacle so that the remote can be plugged in with or without the machine running and the switch changed from local/remote no matter if the machine is running or not as well. I appreciate any help. Wiring is not my area of expertise. Thanks.R
Reply:did you have the remote plugged in when you were trying it?
Reply:Thanks for the reply. Yes I did have it plugged in
Reply:It shouldn't matter if the machine is running or not when you switch to remote.  Just check the wiring to the toggle, the toggle itself. your remote cable and the wiring of the rheostat inside your remote box and finally the remote rheostat. Basically you are just parallelling your receptical plus one wire from your remote toggle to your remote box. piece of soapstonetape measurechipping hammer (wire handle type)tip cleaners
Reply:The new receptacle is wired in now. It was straightforward. Thanks for the replies.
Reply:If your plug is wired backwards it will only sparkle.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlackslacksIt shouldn't matter if the machine is running or not when you switch to remote.
Reply:You got me on that one.   I do that once in a while myself.  So much easier than shutting down and starting again.    Thanks for the insight.piece of soapstonetape measurechipping hammer (wire handle type)tip cleaners
Reply:Thanks for the reply Dwayne!
Reply:I meant Duane.Sorry.
Reply:No worries.  Name's been spelled every way possible and then some.  Should see the ones for my last name. MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55No worries.  Name's been spelled every way possible and then some.  Should see the ones for my last name.
Reply:Old thread, new questions....I want to wire in a remote switch, but I am seeing and hearing ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT opinions. I don't want to damage anything, so I'm a little apprehensive about this whole remote thing....1. I already have an orange hospital grade aux plug on my machine. I understand it to be isolated ground.    a. What does this mean?   b. If I have EVERYTHING tied to the ground screw (guages, oil pressure light, start button, etc.), do I need to remove these items or add an additional recepticle?2. Please explain the need (or lack thereof) to turn off the machine in order to switch between Local and Remote or to plug or unplug the remote cord/remote box.
Reply:Don't let the idea of wiring in a remote scare you.  It's done routinely and once you understand what's going on it shouldn't be that big of a deal and just needs to be done correctly so it works right out of the box.1. The hospital grade isolated ground receptacle is required IF you don't want to use a separate "pigtail" for the remote.  Personally I like the receptacle design as I believe it to make for a "cleaner" installation but most remotes use the pigtail setup.a. Isolated ground simply means the receptacle's internal ground terminal is not connected to (or "isolated" from) the receptacle's metal mounting tabs.  This is needed as the ground terminal is used for the "return" voltage supply to the welder to control output amperage and if the receptacle were a standard non-isolated ground, this voltage would them be connected to the welder chassis and you would not have weld output using the remote.b. Your starter button is connect to ground?   If you currently have all that you listed attached to the green ground screw of the isolated ground receptacle, yes, they need to be relocated to another chassis/panel ground point in order to use the receptacle for a remote.2. It is recommended to not switch the LOCAL/REMOTE selector switch while the unit is running (producing exciter output) as being DC voltage it can easily jump the internal switch contact gap causing an arc that can/will eventually damage the switch over time.  Same goes for the remote plug although plugging it in isn't an issue, it's unplugging that will result in a very hearty arc from receptacle to plug terminals in the process that will get your attention.Hope this helps.Last edited by duaneb55; 03-08-2017 at 04:28 PM.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:So how much voltage is used in the rheostat circuit?  If you wire your outlet this way, is there any danger if someone  inadvertently plugs in a tool that isn't double insulated  ie: uses a three prong plug?piece of soapstonetape measurechipping hammer (wire handle type)tip cleaners
Reply:115VDC.In this case the ground terminal of the isolated ground "hospital" receptacle is the return circuit from the remote that goes to the remote side of the LOCAL/REMOTE switch.  The rheostat - including one in a remote - is on the (-) side of the main shunt coil circuit and there is no DCV at the receptacle ground terminal unless the LOCAL/REMOTE switch is in the REMOTE position.  If in REMOTE, you will get a DCV (+) reading at the ground terminal (exciter + thru the main shunt coils) but any AC/DC tool with a 3-prog plug can still be used as its "ground" isn't internally connected to either power supply leg of the tool.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55any AC/DC tool with a 3-prog plug can still be used as its "ground" isn't internally connected to either power supply leg of the tool.
Reply:When the remote is set at 100 it puts the full 115 DC voltage through the rheostat.    If your tool put a dead short to the ground terminal lug it won't be more than the exciter voltage that normally feeds that part if the circuit.
Reply:What Drumhead said and don't forget that you're dealing with DC voltage and not AC which is why original receptacles in the SA200 are only 2-prong.  One (+), one (-).  No safety ground required for DC.Don't over think this.  If the tool is shorted internally it's still not an issue.To explain, the main shunt coils are connected directly to the 115VDC (+) output of the exciter via the black exciter lead joined to the brown coils lead.  The panel rheostat controls the red (-) side from the exciter to the blue coils lead that is connected to the center common terminal of the LOCAL/REMOTE switch.So, if the tool is shorted internally - say ground to the (+) side, the shunt coils simply sees the same (+) on both ends of their circuit if the LOCAL/REMOTE switch is in the REMOTE position and there will be no weld output.  Only sparkles at best.  If in the LOCAL position, nothing bad can happen as the returning (+) signal from the shorted tool stops at the open side of the LOCAL/REMOTE switch and weld output is determined by the panel rheostat setting.If the tool is shorted to the (-) side and if the LOCAL/REMOTE switch is set to REMOTE, weld output would likely be the same as the rheostat set to 100 - depending on how the tool is shorted internally.  If set to LOCAL, again nothing bad can happen as the returning (-) signal from the shorted tool stops at the open side of the LOCAL/REMOTE switch and weld output is determined same as above.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by DrumheadIf your plug is wired backwards it will only sparkle.
Reply:Was welding good before added idler switch was added? could be the exciter coils ? does the 110 plug work ? or idle set too low to speed up weld, so  may need to increase  idle speed
Reply:It’s new to me I never got the machine fired up until after I installed idler kit. Was told it welded up until it sat for a year. I’ve revved the machine up by hand and no power at the outlet. It will also go into high idle if I flip the switch for high idle so the circuit board is working as far as I can tell.
Reply:sound like  your exciter coil  got break? ,this small nosed that stricken out this your 110 volts side with out it not working right you will not be able to weld,  didn't know if used armature stone to clean up armature, but do that firsts take small cover off, me sometime awaken machine first time take drill plug in outlet  and have trigger pulled and rev machine up see if that wake it up,, if that doesn't work, disconnect the two small wires  on brush holder get your ohms meter they should read 167 +/- 10  ,, can show you how repair the coils if there bad, think they cost up $600 new
Reply:Originally Posted by charlie53843sound like  your exciter coil  got break? ,this small nosed that stricken out this your 110 volts side with out it not working right you will not be able to weld,  didn't know if used armature stone to clean up armature, but do that firsts take small cover off, me sometime awaken machine first time take drill plug in outlet  and have trigger pulled and rev machine up see if that wake it up,, if that doesn't work, disconnect the two small wires  on brush holder get your ohms meter they should read 167 +/- 10  ,, can show you how repair the coils if there bad, think they cost up $600 new
Reply:not running sorry