Titanium Motorcycle Frame

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Thought some be interested in the Ti Ducati frames I buildTi Ducati Monster frame:Ducati Monster with Ti frame:Currently working on Ducati Sport Classic frame:The stock frames weigh around 27-28lbs. The Ti frame is around 14lbs. The bike in the picture above weighs 360lbs dry and has 135hp.
Reply:So what do you do to make sure you get proper shielding? Lets see some pics of the welds BEFORE you clean them up
Reply:Nice stuff......  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:The material has to be expensive........do you bend all your tubes or have them mandrel bent for you?  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Oooooo my favorite metal. What do you do with scraps I wan't practice ^_^ i'll pay for them if you have any.
Reply:So what do you do to make sure you get proper shielding? Lets see some pics of the welds BEFORE you clean them up
Reply:Oooooo my favorite metal. What do you do with scraps I wan't practice ^_^ i'll pay for them if you have any.
Reply:I will say the Ducati frame lends itself well to Ti tubing. It is very well triangulated and the engine is part of the frame. Probably wouldn't work well at all for a Harley frame.
Reply:What kind of colors do you end up with? I don't doubt you have proper shielding, honestly I'm just curious. I'm sure people pay good money for those things.
Reply:the only TI I ever get my hands on is exhaust systems and the filler is so expensive I have to charge twice as much as I normally do with stainless or mild steel........  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by smilexelectricOooooo my favorite metal. What do you do with scraps I wan't practice ^_^ i'll pay for them if you have any.
Reply:What kind of colors do you end up with? I don't doubt you have proper shielding, honestly I'm just curious. I'm sure people pay good money for those things.
Reply:Isn't blue an automatic fail and the metal no longer has the properties of Ti?Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Very interesting, keep the pictures coming!Craig MontgomeryM&L Fabrication, LLChttps://www.facebook.com/pages/ML-Fa...8228829?ref=hl
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverIsn't blue an automatic fail and the metal no longer has the properties of Ti?
Reply:Preziosi is out at Ducati Corse. I think they could use your help over there; the last 2 years were dismal. They really need to get back to what worked for them; a trellis frame. Nice looking stuff Porche; where ya located at?And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by WookieWeldingthat is correct if you are using aws D17.1
Reply:Beautiful - I presume you have seen some of the frames and finished bikes NCR puts out on the Ducati platform?I'd love to have one of these for my Ducati, but I'm afraid it would cost more than the bike.
Reply:Gorgeous, just gorgeous.Thanks for posting. You and Zank send shivers up my spine.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:So sweet. Beautiful! Terry, you are way too kind.Gamble, the goal is neither in the bead nor on the tube. When working with titanium, the contamination is not just a surface defect. The contamination is working into the base metal. Here is a nice summary of titanium welding information.http://www.weldreality.com/Titanium%20Data.htm
Reply:Gamble, here's a quick spectrum of what guys in the cycling world are doing for titanium.Here's a local guy in the Boston area. Yoshi is one of the top guys in the biz and welds for Seven Cycles and under his own brand Kualis. This is what all of his welds look like as welded. He is ultra meticulous and doesn't ever ever ever skip a single detail or step. Ever.On the other end of the spectrum is this. This wouldn't pass at any of the custom shops that I know of. But they have deemed it adequate for their standards. And it's not like we hear about the bikes breaking either.So that gives you an idea of what different guys are doing and what some consider acceptable. And, of course, the appearance on the outside only tells half the story with titanium.Last edited by zank; 03-08-2013 at 06:38 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleAny blue at all or just blue in the bead?
Reply:nice work btw on the TI bike framesMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Thanks for posting the chart. That's hand to have around for sure.
Reply:Originally Posted by zank Here is a nice summary of titanium welding information.http://www.weldreality.com/Titanium%20Data.htmYeah, Yoshi is a stud. Here is his blog. Always nice pictures. http://builderslife.blogspot.com/
Reply:And sorry to derail this thread. I just love talking titanium. Back to ti motorcycle frames!
Reply:Hear is what Miller has Titanium 101   http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...anium-welding/ Attached ImagesTO INVENT  YOU NEED A GOOD IMAGINATION  AND A  PILE OF JUNK'' - THOMAS EDISONMost Of The Time People Don't see The Quality of a Good Job Unitl they see a Bad Job !! -Scott Esplin
Reply:Pretty trick for sure.....But how many Hamburgers can he eat?   lolLast edited by B_C; 03-08-2013 at 10:32 PM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:I got a handful of some 6AL4V  that works good on the Jap Bike Exhaust Systems...I would like to sit in on some of the Bicycle Frame builds......Gotta be awesome....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by zankAnd sorry to derail this thread. I just love talking titanium. Back to ti motorcycle frames!
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CI got a handful of some 6AL4V  that works good on the Jap Bike Exhaust Systems...I would like to sit in on some of the Bicycle Frame builds......Gotta be awesome....
Reply:Wonderful detail.
Reply:Wouldn't the highlighted fact be a concern for a motorcycle frame?  WELD FACTS FOR TITANIUM:[] Titanium low weight, high strength and good corrosion resistance. [] Titanium has low thermal conductivity, low density and low thermal expansion.[] Titanium alloys match or exceed the tensile strength of structural steels.[] Titanium alloys stronger than steel yet approx. 40% lighter.[] Titanium will work at temperatures up to 600C.[] Titanium alloys usually have a lower modulus of elasticity (stiffness) than steel, but much higher than aluminum or magnesium. [] In comparison to aluminum and steel alloys, titanium alloys have a 30% or greater strength to weight ratio. [] Most titanium alloys are softer than steel.[] Titanium has poor wear properties. [] Titanium tensile strength increases as the temperature decreases. [] Titanium has low impact and creep strengths. [] Titanium is reactive metal that forms a thin layer of titanium dioxide on it's surface. The oxide provides protection from many corrosives materials. [] Titanium is bio-compatible in that it does not react with the human body.[] Titanium will burn in pure nitrogen.
Reply:This a pic of a frame that was built a few years ago by someone else. The welds look like rainbows but I never heard of one breaking. I did see a pic of one after a crash. One of the tubes did pull away from the headstock, but it was the base metal that broke, not the weld. He used a thin Ti tube with an aluminum insert for the bearings in the headstock.I presume you have seen some of the frames and finished bikes NCR puts out on the Ducati platform?
Reply:Originally Posted by nikodellWouldn't the highlighted fact be a concern for a motorcycle frame?  WELD FACTS FOR TITANIUM:[] Titanium has low impact and creep strengths. [] Titanium will burn in pure nitrogen.
Reply:PORCHE 40; resize your pics. You hammer the post when the pics are too big, they 'fit' yet the forum can not place them correspondingly to the text mode; leaving us with what you just accidentally created!!And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:I went back to photobucket and resized pics, still looks the same
Reply:Hate it when the site uploads like that!!!!!And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Interesting thread, thanks for posting up the pics.Question for Porsche40: Do you need to normalize or otherwise heat-treat the frames after they're welded up?
Reply:So being its a street bike;  its all fine till you crash it than beware "scrap it"?  My thought on the  low impact strength comes from thoughts on racing and being able to be resilient enough to continue service after a get off event. I was a club racer in the past, bikes go down when you are pushing things. I have had issues on my past street bikes with fatigue fail-yer on of all things my 88-92  GSXR 750s just at the point where the brace from the steering head joined the top tube on the inside of the bend. These bikes were pressed daily on "some rough" country mountain roads at race speeds.What ever happened with ARC Fabrication he made some interesting looking frames for the DUCs. Too big http://www.duccutters.com/ARCfabrica...Bikes/rat5.jpgLast edited by nikodell; 03-10-2013 at 09:32 AM.
Reply:Nice work, I love welding titanium. Where I'm at we can have silver and slight tan, even though the tan is "acceptable" it's not really liked. We are doing aircraft stuff so their pretty strict. One day I'd love to build a frame out of Ti. Thanks for the inspiration.
Reply:Question for Porsche40: Do you need to normalize or otherwise heat-treat the frames after they're welded up?
Reply:Originally Posted by nikodellSo being its a street bike;  its all fine till you crash it than beware "scrap it"?  My thought on the  low impact strength comes from thoughts on racing and being able to be resilient enough to continue service after a get off event. I was a club racer in the past, bikes go down when you are pushing things. I have had issues on my past street bikes with fatigue fail-yer on of all things my 88-92  GSXR 750s just at the point where the brace from the steering head joined the top tube on the inside of the bend. These bikes were pressed daily on "some rough" country mountain roads at race speeds.What ever happened with ARC Fabrication he made some interesting looking frames for the DUCs. Too big http://www.duccutters.com/ARCfabrica...Bikes/rat5.jpg
Reply:I have a couple pro motocross riders for customersThe 2010 YZ-450 frames had some problems near the forehead area. They all crackedthe same way.... Yamaha wouldn't' payTo repair them and only replaced themwith the same frame that would break again..... Their aluminum  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloThat has to be one of the UGLIEST swingarms I have ever seen!!I feel you on your bikes; I have a 2007 GSXR 1000 with a frame that cracked straight thru into 2 pieces, thru the weld itself. Suzuki makes great motors; their weld process needs some work.A Ti frame is still FAR better than aluminum in impact resistance and has much better modulus of elasticity. Look at it this way; there are no aluminum springs for bikes, but the springs on my bike are all Ti; the front forks, and the rear shock spring.As to crash surviving; there are no guarantees in life. I launched a 1995 ZX7 front end about 50 feet on a relatively slow crash at Firebird- maybe a 60mph slide off. I did not believe a frame so massive could rip itself apart like that....... but there is nothing we can not break if we try.
Reply:Originally Posted by nikodellI said interesting not pretty:Wasn't there a recall on the 1000s for a number of model years for that vary problem where they epoxied a reinforcement plate onto the frame.   I saw photos of one that broke like yours and it was clearly poor weld quality as the weld was split roughly in the middle of the bead.
Reply:Ever considered investing in an argon bubble to weld the Ti? We have a few bubbles for Ti here at work and there is absolutely 0 discoloration, inside and out. Uses a lot of argon, but for what you are doing, might be an idea...
Reply:very cool, ducatis are a sweet sweet bike, im currently in the process of a bobber build for myselfIf the conversation isn’t money, then I’ll see you later.