How low do you run your argon tank?

admin

Hey fellas, I was wondering how low psi does everyone run there tanks usually? Reason why is I just recently bought a new inverter machine and it was been welding very good on AC, I am only on my second tank. When tank was new it registered around 2000psi and all was well my beads on aluminum where shiny like they should be, however my tank has gotten down to 500psi since last time I used it, since its been down at 500psi the beads have black specs in the ( black pepper) I was wondering if it was possibly contaminants in the tank since pressure is low or it could be the quality of aluminum  welding, the parts I am welding are pipe ferrules from wiggins clamp, unfortunaty the ferrules didnt come from wiggins like I'm use to but came from a knock off company in china, they claim its 6061, the aluminum is very clean and look of good quality aluminum, however when I go to weld them the beads look like crap and have tons of black pepper specs in the beads? With knowing that I cleaned the parts very well with a stainless brush and then wiped it with acetone what could be the reason for the contaminats in my weld beads? I am running 17cfh pure argon, 1/16 red tungsten, gas lens with a #9 cup and WP9 torch, I have tried from -3 cleaning effect up to 0 with no difference, I'm running about 60 amps.I know the argon isn't bad when I first got the tank only 2weeks ago and I ly had this issue since the pressure has droped to 500psi, I am also running a single stage regulator also.I am really stumped,  any I advise would be greatly appreciated.
Reply:Sounds like poor quality material, not a gas issue. Usually the tech school simply runs the gas until you see porosity issues with the welds. It's very clear when the argon has run out. Gas generally doesn't suddenly "go bad" in the cylinder, though a leak might cause issues, say a damaged gas line or nicked O-ring for example. The easy way to double check is to try and do a few practice welds on known goo material and see how they go. Cheap regs frequently don't read the low end of the HP gauge very accurately. Mine usually will "run out" with the gauge reading somewhere around 200 psi or so. On average I frequently change it out at around 500 since starting a decent sized project with much less than that isn't worth the trouble anyways with a 125cf cylinder..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:With the Blue Shield bottles they have a valve that stops at 22 lbs. so you can run them till they stop......any other bottles I usually run them to the black zone then replace.......  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Some regulators can't provide enough intermediate pressure when the pressure in the cylinder is getting low. The intermediate pressure is what the flow meter will be exposed to.Have you checked what your flow meter is showing? Or perhaps even better can you check the flow at the torch?Perhaps you can check it by taping an empty plastic bag of known volume over the torch and see how long it takes to fill up.
Reply:Just ran a bottle 'dry' on Sunday.Registered nothing but it still flowed (less than 500). So I welded with it anyway.  At some point the weld 'flaired up' and I noticed I couldn't hear the gas anymore.  I went to the bottle itself and cracked the valve with the regulator off and gas still came out.  I was concerned my regulator might have gone bad.  Swapped bottles and everything was fine.  Used another regulator to ensure the tank was really empty (registered 0 on the other gauge as well).The tank was at 750 a couple of weeks ago and I don't remember welding that much so I was a little surprised when it didn't register anything on the gauge.  This was with a Smith flow meter.By flaired up, I mean the autodark helmet went 'light' and the arc started dancing all around.  Had I been doing something critical I suspect I would be grinding a bit.  This was standard Miller Elite (not a Digital Elite).  New bottle and resharpen the tungsten - just in case.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:I run them till the CFH gauge can't maintain 5 while welding.
Reply:I run them untill I have to write "MT" on the bottle. If I am working on something important I change it out at about 250psi so I don't have to worry about grinding out porosity.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CWith the Blue Shield bottles they have a valve that stops at 22 lbs. so you can run them till they stop......any other bottles I usually run them to the black zone then replace.......
Reply:Thanks for all the advise, I got a fresh bottle and I'd did not solve the problem, I am almost sure it's the quality of the aluminum, in all my years of tig welding I have never came across this issue other then when I welded some cast aluminum but that was understandable considering it was cast.The aluminum ferrules I am welding claim to be made from 6061 I'll be honest from the look of the finish it looks like very good quality stuff, super clean, I am welding it to 6061 T6 pipe, when I go to weld the rest of the pipes other then the ferrules it all weld very nice.My only other question is if the aliminum the ferrules where made from had alott of other fillers in it like say nickel or any other alloy could this be The reason also? Is there a certain filler rod material that would yield better results? What I am having to do currently is to cake on the filler pretty thick then going back and grinding off some matrial and then go over it with another pass just so it looks presentable, this is a bitch! Not considering a waste of gas and filler material and most important time.Any other ideals to get a better resulting weld bead is greatly appreciated.Thanks again guys.MinhLast edited by Modifyd; 04-02-2013 at 05:53 PM.
Reply:Is there a way of testing the material to get an ideal of the true type of aluminum it is? Also is there a universal filler rod that does well with unknown aluminum, currently I am using 4043 rod.If I was in the market for a well known top quality regulator what are my options? Brand, multi stage, ect..Last edited by Modifyd; 04-02-2013 at 05:54 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by ModifydIs there a way of testing the material to get an ideal of the true type of aluminum it is? Also is there a universal filler rod that does well with unknown aluminum, currently I am using 4043 rod.If I was in the market for a well known top quality regulator what are my options? Brand, multi stage, ect..
Reply:Here is a reducer which is for sure 6061 T6 and on the bottom is the ferrule with unknown aluminum grade, I'll post I pic of my weld puddle tonight after work.. Attached Images
Reply:Here is another shot of the ferrule sitting on the cast part it's going to get welded to for color reference,keep in mind the cast part is not been cleaned and prepared for welding yet so I know cleaning the material is not the issue.I have tested the power hose for any leaks and there isn't any, connections are nice and snug no leaks, only unknown factor might be the regulator, I did turbo the post flow up to watch the output gauge and when activated it shows 16 CFH steady... Attached Images
Reply:I run my tanks until the flow regulator ball drops out.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverI run my tanks until the flow regulator ball drops out.
Reply:If the ferrule was made to be welded, it should be weldable with little fuss. At least one of the two is 6061. The casting can be a bit dirty, but usually is not a problem to weld. Have you tried some sample pieces of 6061 joined to each other to verify the quality of your gas, rod, and welder? 4043 is a very tolerant filler on dirty metal.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Yeah, I've welded plenty of the 6061 tubing it it welds great, unless I try to weld it to the ferrules, so I've been having to stack my beads just the do t like like @hitBad part is the casting actually welds okay if I weld it to any other material other then these pos ferrules, bottom line it obviously the ferrules but I am trying to find a way to make them weld better considering I have about $75-$150 bucks in each of the clamps which require 2 ferrules... Last resort would be to go pickup some good 6061 thick wall tubing and paying a machinist to turn me some new ferrulesLast edited by Modifyd; 04-02-2013 at 10:38 PM.
Reply:[QUOTE=Modifyd;2468591]Is there a way of testing the material to get an ideal of the true type of aluminum it is? QUOTE]The local recycling yard here has one of those fancy gun testers that tells them what alloy they have - maybe yours does too?Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:i run my tanks till they are empty unless its a smaller bottle that i transfill then i leave about 100 psi or so left in it so it does not need to be vaced downyou can also use eddy current  to identify a material if you have samples to test agianstLast edited by WeldorWes; 04-02-2013 at 10:55 PM.Miller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Anymore I tell my customers if they can't ID the material they buy at a scrap metal yard I wont weld it......especially if  they made some involved machined part that wont weld and fails leak testing......  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:[quote=MinnesotaDave;2469831] Originally Posted by ModifydIs there a way of testing the material to get an ideal of the true type of aluminum it is? QUOTE]The local recycling yard here has one of those fancy gun testers that tells them what alloy they have - maybe yours does too?Dave J.