Incorrect Terminology

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I had some very good conversations today about the welding terms we use on daily basis that are not correct. I have been accused of reading to many books and wanting everyone to follow the correct procedures and terms so this is a passionate topic to me I guess. First let me say that I have and probably will continue to use these terms even though we know some of them are not correct. The first one is one I have heard used here and I have used it as well incorrectly. Downhand. Most think it is vertical down welding like on pipe. That is not correct. Downhand as defined by AWS is "a nonstandard term for flat welding position". Flat welding position is defined as " The welding position used to weld from the upper side of the joint at a point where the weld axis is approximately horizontal, and the weld face lies in an approximately horizontal plane". Talking to a few CWI's today to confirm what it is we came up with this simple explanation, "welding horizontal usually dragging" not downhill welding. Look online and you will see the masses using this term incorrectly. Another is "ground" used to discribe the copper thing we clamp on our piece to be welded. Technically this is incorrect. It should be "work lead". What about "MIG" and "TIG"? Metal Inert Gas cannot be correct due to the active gasses we use in welding. Same with Tungsten Inert Gas. And what about Heliarc? Technically that is a trade name and NOT a process. Here is a good one, "splatter" instead of "spatter" the metal particals expelled during fusion welding that do not form a part of the weld. So, what other terms do you use that are not technically correct? I think there are many. We could probably learn a lot from this discussion. -JonathanFollow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:I think people can split hairs.Like,Its not a 5th wheel trailer, its a gooseneck trailer.Or like, its not welding rod, its welding electrodes.....Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Work piece connection is also used to mean the ground clamp.  I guess it is more precise.   Welding machines are now called power sources.   In Canada we use metric designations for welding rods  E 7018 was changed to E 48018 ....it has been changed again.   Almost everyone uses AWS imperial numbers.
Reply:John,I can see splitting hairs on terms like TIG and MIG but not downhand for example. When you read or author welding documents and use downhand incorrectly it is confusing and incorrect. -JonathanFollow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:Originally Posted by Superior WeldingJohn,I can see splitting hairs on terms like TIG and MIG but not downhand for example. When you read or author welding documents and use downhand incorrectly it is confusing and incorrect. -Jonathan
Reply:The shop I used to work in called Vert down  as down hill guess that separates it from down hand.Measure with a micrometre, mark with chalk,  cut with a torch.Never force anything...just get a bigger hammer.RoyOld Airco buzz box approx 1974Lincoln mig pack 15Lincoln 175 square wave1954 9" south bend lathe
Reply:WW Contributors Read for Content . . . http://Twitter%20@jon_superiorfab%20...periorwelding/Opus
Reply:Your link is broke, Opus.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Standardization is generally required in most technical fields, and rightly so.  That being said, if something is widely accepted within a group of individuals working within a particular field, though technically incorrect to someone outside the field, who's to say it's not standardization to some degree."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:AKweldshop - It reads as if you are quoting me . . . Originally Posted by AKweldshopYour link is broke, Opus.
Reply:OPUS,Not exactly sure what you are meaning there bud. I changed my Twitter name so if that was a link to view my profile it is now @_JonathanLewis.farmersamm, I can see what you are saying however we weld by certain standards and if the standards say that downhand is flat welding position we cannot argue the point. Just because the world believes something that does not make it right or mean it's right. If you could get the sanctioning body to accept that term than I guess it would be all good. Remember, I am not necessarily referring to those who weld in their garages rather professionals who hold their welds to a standard be it CWB, AWS, API or ASME.My opinion.-JonathanLast edited by Superior Welding; 12-12-2014 at 07:36 AM.Follow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopI think people can split hairs.Like,Its not a 5th wheel trailer, its a gooseneck trailer.Or like, its not welding rod, its welding electrodes.....
Reply:Commonly, fifth wheel hitches are fitted to trucks with ten wheels. How then did they come up with fifth wheel? Isn't it the 11th wheel? Odds are the steering wheel was there all along, maybe it's the eleventh wheel. Where's the wheel anyway?
Reply:I think this is a great thread.  It gets to me for some reason when people call spatter "splatter."  Or when people insist on spelling the noun to describe a person who does welding Weldor, with an O, when AWS A3.0 "Standard Welding Terms and Definitions" defines a Welder, with an E, as one who performs manual or semiautomatic welding. Or when I tell people I am a Welding Engineer and they tell me their little brother is a Welder. Yeah, my cousin is a Mechanical Engineer and he just changed my brake pads for me.  Great food for thought.  Thanks Jonathon-Jesse
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BCommonly, fifth wheel hitches are fitted to trucks with ten wheels. How then did they come up with fifth wheel? Isn't it the 11th wheel? Odds are the steering wheel was there all along, maybe it's the eleventh wheel. Where's the wheel anyway?
Reply:Most of it is laziness with language. Taking classes to become recertified I see how many terms I use incorrectly as well. It has bitten me on the written tests too. Always have to watch the language, both technical and non. Regards,RobGreat Basin WeldingInstagramBlue weldersRed weldersMy luscious Table DIY TIG Torch cooler
Reply:Superior....  In life,  there's always what the "book" says and then there's "reality."  So when you're brand new to a job site with journeymen pipeline weldors standing around on their lunch breaks, are you gonna tell them that they're understanding of the word "downhill" welding is "incorrect?"   Yeah good luck with that.  If you're reading a WPS and/or someone tells you to weld "downhill" and you're not sure which "downhill" definition they are requiring of you, simply ask for clarification, then handle it accordingly.  I just wouldn't go around telling experienced guys that have been doing it for literally decades, that they're now all wrong about their use of specific terminology.Remember, there's also common sense with these things you bring up, as well as maintaining some personal humility.  Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Superarc,I have to do it, downhill does in fact refer to vertical down welding, downhand is flat. ;-)I absolutely agree that you don't want to start a fight on terms and I also agree that technically if a WPS states a certain way than do that. However, again just because the whole world does something wrong does that make it right? I am not saying lets go change the welding world on their terminology. For me I find it interesting. I will say also that if we were to use all terms correctly (not saying I do by any means) we will be viewed in a more professional manner to those "in the know". I also agree that no matter how hard we try we will not change the old timers (said respectfully).-JonathanFollow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:We can join together!-JonathanFollow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:I get " do you have a meg welder", or  can you repair my 'rocket panels' on my car or  can you weld my cadillac converter  ,I'd say one on a monthly basis.
Reply:They need to do like the scientific community.  Use fake Latin names like in biology.  Drippus verticalis vs. Sloppis downhandii."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Lol, wouldn't that be fun?-JonathanFollow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:One that I am guilty of using wrong is "weldor" instead of "welder". Welder is defined as "one who performs a manual or semiautomatic welding operation". Metals and How to Weld Them uses "weldor" to discribe the actual person and I guess I adopted it. We use "welder" when we are referring to the machine when technically we should say "welding machine" defined as "equipment used to perform the welding operation". So technically when we say "I had my welder fixed today" we are technically really saying "I had my person who performs my semiautomatic welding operation today".-JonathanLast edited by Superior Welding; 12-12-2014 at 06:22 PM.Follow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumThey need to do like the scientific community.  Use fake Latin names like in biology.  Drippus verticalis vs. Sloppis downhandii.
Reply:I don't think I have ever met any one who didn't use the terms down hand and down hill inter changeably , and as for the definition  give by OP that was probably written by some educated prick !!The educated prick who wrote them are the sanction bodies you weld under.-JonathanFollow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:What's funny is someone went on and on how API 1104 says downhand so I looked it up just to be sure. Nope. Nowhere do you find mention of downhand in reference to vertical down welding of any kind. Downhand had to have been misinterpreted for downhill or used out of ignorance and it has stuck as slang.-JonathanFollow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:when people interchange lo-hy with hi-low (we use hi-low as a reference to mis-match in pipe fitup). somebody points and says "sheesh, look at all the low-hy on that joint!"and then i face-palm, because they should have said mis-matchweld-o-let, sock-o-let, and thread-o-let are things that get mixed up wayyy too muchprocess pipe is tubing more often than notarc welding!!!!!! that is the number one thing around here. "yea i do mostly stainless tig, but am ok at arc-welding too". . . . . .bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Superior-WeldingWhat is your gender?Are you Hal?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_9000Or: are you SIRI?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiriOpus
Reply:all I saw was some A-hole looking to pick a fight over the internet - http://i.imgur.com/0FAlxw3.gif... I know, because I've been 'that a-hole.' before - and I learned my lesson.
Reply:I knew one guy who insisted  a welding machine  be called a power supply and that a welder was the guy doing the welding.
Reply:somedude,If you think I want to pick a fight on a forum you probably don't know me at all. Is this controversial? Yes. Is it interesting? Yes. Lets keep the conversation in track.-JonathanFollow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:somedude"I know, because I've been 'that a-hole.' before - and I learned my lesson".Evidently not . . .  Don't post Live Feed - it took 30 minutes to wrangle your Worms.  On a happy note - which one of those 'Geniuses' are you?Opus
Reply:Opus,Dude, I am not sure what you are getting at. 30 minutes to wrangle my worms?? Am I supposed to live in here waiting to post? What does your contribution have to do with the topic at hand? And what do you mean by don't post live feed? Don't mean to offend but you are confusing the day light out of me.-JonathanFollow me on Twitter @_JonathanLewis and Instagram @superiorwelding
Reply:Superior-WeldingI am not a Dude - but can ride a horse.Noun/verb, and subject/object, are imperative for "Vertical 7018"  up hand down hand horizontal.Which is best?  Left or right handed?Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by Superior WeldingOpus,Dude, I am not sure what you are getting at. 30 minutes to wrangle my worms?? Am I supposed to live in here waiting to post? What does your contribution have to do with the topic at hand? And what do you mean by don't post live feed? Don't mean to offend but you are confusing the day light out of me.-Jonathan
Reply:Interesting thread.But I gotta go now.I have to get in my airplane and drive to the grocery store.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Well, I'm back from the grocery store. Had a little accident, though.The house I was driving on had a pothole in it, and when I hit it, it bent my toaster.I drove to the tire and toaster shop to get it replaced, but the guy said he could fix it.He got a big, heavy sponge and beat on it until it was ok.Now it is square again.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Originally Posted by gxbxcI knew one guy who insisted  a welding machine  be called a power supply and that a welder was the guy doing the welding.
Reply:Anti-spat is what you spray around the seam to be welded, to keep the spatter from sticking.Anti-splat is another term for a parachute.Hee hee. This is fun.A welding machine could be referred to as a power source, but so could a small battery.Welding Machine is just a bit more specific.OK. I'm throughLast edited by geezerbill; 12-13-2014 at 09:08 AM.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerbillWell, I'm back from the grocery store. Had a little accident, though.The house I was driving on had a pothole in it, and when I hit it, it bent my toaster.I drove to the tire and toaster shop to get it replaced, but the guy said he could fix it.He got a big, heavy sponge and beat on it until it was ok.Now it is square again.
Reply:Touché geezerbill ---Meltedmetal
Reply:hmm, oh well. sorry for the misunderstanding.
Reply:I think I'am going to sit the rest of this out as I am dazed an confussed
Reply:Incorrect terminology abounds in the electrical trade, and while it mostly just leads to to confusion, it can be downright dangerous in some cases.And incorrect nautical  terminology really chaps me. Don't know why, it just does, even though my boating experience is strictly recreational.Last edited by bigb; 12-13-2014 at 09:49 PM.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_wheel_coupling  See the section under "Origin".  Remember, it's Wikipedia, so don't bet the farm on it
Reply:Depending on how many 12 hour shifts in a row I was on, or at least something to haze the noob's with, it was pretty easy to get the "Left" and "Right" hydraulic systems (as described by Boeing and used on the KC/EC-135 series of aircraft) confused with "right" as in "correct".It would almost end up being a "Who's on First" routine...  Q: Are the inboard spoilers are on the left system?A: RightQ: No, they are on the left system.A: RightAnother fun thing that we used to drill into the noob's and/or the Boom Operators during the Maintenance Debrief after flight, is the correct use of Left or Right in conjunction with the Air Refueling Boom. On the KC/EC-135's the Boom Op would lay in the back of the jet in the Boom Pod, so we had to make sure that we were all on the same page of the person's left or right or the Aircraft Left or Right. OlyA Refugee from the Peoples Republic of Minnneeesootah living on the Prairie of Eastern Montana.3-7-77