Question for my son's future

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hello,I have a question that probably has been asked but I didn't find it searching. My son is finishing up a 2 year vo tech program in high school for welding. Alot of institutes are trying to recruit them for institutes. It's alot of money. Would my son be well served financially to go to one or would it be better to get hired on and learn on the job. This is important as only a few months remain. Any info or links would be helpful. Dan
Reply:If he could get hired on in a fab shop, or in an apprenticeship. Earn while he learns.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I would ask the votec program he is in now if they can administer the tests for him to gain his certs while still in school. If he graduates with a few welding certs under his belt it will be easy for him to find an apprenticeship or even get the company he wants to work for to train him in that field.Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:I'm not a trained weldor. I am a trained electrician. My education was a combination of formal classroom education and 45 years apprenticeship. That's right, I'm still learning. Until Alzheimer's sets in, we still learn. Had I done only apprenticeship, I'd have learned only what my father knew, in the context of what his customers needed. Important facets of the field would be missed, as there is no one paying us to do that sort of work. I was very fortunate in my early years, the instructors were the best in the state. They included a brilliant young man who became one of the most respected men in the state, the man who went on to be chief electrical inspector for VT, and the best industrial electrician I've ever known. Yet a classroom only education is totally inadequate, hands on with an experienced master is much more valuable.I believe, like electricity, it is possible to specialize in one facet of welding, be very good at it, and have a lifelong career. I guess I would prefer a diversified course of training, preparing one for the endless variety of jobs that might come to me.
Reply:It's not the greatest program out there but if you qualify you can learn to weld at Job Corps and at least the one here you can earn certs while there.  Doesn't' cost a dime, they actually pay the students and provide all the housing, clothes, food, etc...  Not a bad deal for 16-24 year old kids.The problem is that is' run by the government and most of the kids are there for the wrong reasons.  But if you can focus on what you are there to learn and not get caught up in the distractions it's a great opportunity that costs nothing.  http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrBT...l1piTzVl678OI-
Reply:What is your location ? Are there unions with apprenticeships ? What is work like by you ?
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldingDadhello,I have a question that probably has been asked but I didn't find it searching. My son is finishing up a 2 year vo tech program in high school for welding. Alot of institutes are trying to recruit them for institutes. It's alot of money. Would my son be well served financially to go to one or would it be better to get hired on and learn on the job. This is important as only a few months remain. Any info or links would be helpful. Dan
Reply:I can just give you my experience from being on the employer side of Trade Schools. Every few years a rash of them pop up and can charge up to $10,000 for a 6 month program. They offer a crash course type 8 hour daily, 5 day a week study program. They also promise big bucks on graduation, and guaranty certification on the process of your choice or your money back.Guess what? They pass a school type cert of completion that don't mean diddly and they can't weld crap. They march in, show me their document, pull out a coupon and I laugh at the arrogance. I have even seen guys pull out a 3 inch long fillet as their test plate that they are all proud of. Best get in line at a community college and work part time as a shop helper soaking in as much as possible. Or join a program like mentioned above or join the military.I have been talking with my daughter about her future. Although she can weld like a champ, being around welding all her life makes it seem blase and boring. So I told her if I was her age I could see myself welding bridges doing structural semi auto(mig), as our nation's roadways and bridges are falling apart. I would love to be on the ground floor of developing a process of saving them. Another would be mortuary sciences. Talk about a captive audience and an endless supply of customers. The closer I get to becoming a paying customer, the less squeamish I get.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I never went to school for welding or machining and now look....But remember one thing..You have to love it to do it...And in this field you either can or you can't.Like playing the drums..If you can't make your arms and legs do different things at different times you will not be a drummer.Point is...Ya gotta be born with it.Don't try and force it on him....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Has your son expressed an interest? What type of welding does he want to do and is it available locally or will he have to relocate? Are any jobs available locally so that he can try out welding for a living as opposed to welding in the classroom for an hour a day? Nothing wrong with the school route but it is a large dollar commitment for a young person and the parents to make considering the student has hardly adapted to adult life yet. Good luck with your decision.
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldingDadhello,I have a question that probably has been asked but I didn't find it searching. My son is finishing up a 2 year vo tech program in high school for welding. Alot of institutes are trying to recruit them for institutes. It's alot of money. Would my son be well served financially to go to one or would it be better to get hired on and learn on the job. This is important as only a few months remain. Any info or links would be helpful. Dan
Reply:I am a self taught welder just like zap, and I hold a few certs and make a great living, but like said above, it DEFINATLEY has to be in you one way or another. There are jobs on production lines where schooling will get you right in, but don't look for any big money, and the welding field is so vastly wide it really depends on character/personality and the type of person you are. Grunts/daredevils/in between bench and blueprint welders and layout guys and half *** sissies, the welding world has a place for all of them. In my opinion you have to love what you do, it shouldn't be just a occupation or you'll never prove yourself. Just my honest opinion tho.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:What could be more fun than this type of welding?  Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Underwater welding maybe
Reply:I would suggest that he get a couple years of welding experience before he pays all the money to go to school.  I wanted to go to welding school out of vo-tech but didn't have the money.  By the time I had the money saved up to get myself through school I had worked for five years and I wanted to be a Welding Engineer and I became one.  He might work for a couple years and realize he doesn't even like welding.  Then you just wasted alot of money.  If he gets experience first he will have real world knowledge to back up what he learns in college.  I work with engineers every day that have no experience in their discipline of engineering and they are jokes and they make me sick.  Like mentioned before he has got to love what he is doing.  If he really loves it he will thirst for more knowledge about.  If he aint thirsty he aint gonna drink my friend.Good Luck-Jesse
Reply:If he's in a vocational program, don't they have work placement in a welding shop ?Lot's of places hire them on at their placement.Last edited by 12345678910; 12-12-2014 at 01:52 PM.
Reply:For the longest time the only places hiring wanted people with years of on the job experience they didn't care about school.With a better economy it might be experience or school.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:My advice would be to hire on with a shop and get paid while he learns. I took shop classes in high school and thought I was a great fabricator. Got hired on at a fab shop right out of high school and suddenly realized I didn’t know as much as I thought I did. Over the years I gained tons of hands on knowledge, things I don’t think I would have learned at a trade school. Just my opinion.  Looking back I am glad I did it the way I did.
Reply:I guess the days are long gone where a kid could walk into a welding shop grab a broom and start sweeping up and work your self into a job .
Reply:Originally Posted by gxbxcI guess the days are long gone where a kid could walk into a welding shop grab a broom and start sweeping up and work your self into a job .
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThere are still places like that. My shop for instance. But I go through 4 to get one worthy, and usually they don't ride it out. Seriously it takes 4 years to get to a point where they can be trusted to take a job and complete it on their own.
Reply:ok, your son is 17-18 im guessing, i was there not long ago and here is my story. keep in mind, im not a complete idiot; smart on paper dumb in life, so a good average average.hated high-school but was intrigued by a few teachers that said i would do fantastic in college. planned on going.started the day i was supposed to graduate high-school as a clean-up-boy in a large shop for a large company. screw the family, im going to pay for my own college.didn't take long for me to realize my life was better than my friends who went to college. makin money as a welder-fabricator, decent house, decent trucks, easy job cause i liked it.i was maxed out my 7th year in. this year i will still clear better than some of my bachelor holding buddies, but i wont next year. and the fact that i have a family, while none of the smart kids that went to college do, means i live considerably poorer. if i was ok with leaving the family, i could do better monetarily by leaving for oil, or taking the risk of becoming a contractor (soon to come, but not until the company i still work for fades off)bottom line is i got paid to learn all that i have, and it was enough to keep me happy. now im fed up and looking for ways to keep up with the jones' so to speak. and that would happen welding school or not.if he is intersted in school put him in, but not for manual welding. welding engineer, mechanical engineer, civil engineer, business degree, tech-stuff (computers), etc.welding as a skill is going away every day. the way i see it is that there is an engineer designing robots and other ways to make welding faster/cheaper that keeps getting raises, while the welder (now called operator) stays the same.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Man, thanks for all the perspective. He really enjoys welding. Its the only time the kid has ever wanted to go to school. The welding teacher has 25 years of teaching experience and has told me that any kid that wanted a job after school got one through his connections. After listening to you guys, I think the advice I will give him from people in the field is work and see if you even need to go to school. Likely if he needs some special certs, a good company would pay for it. The teacher says that he is doing good. I know the skill is a lifelong process. This really helps. I'll keep him informed and try to get him to sign up here to learn more about the actual trade. Dan
Reply:WeldingDad I went to two years of welding trade school while in high school. 3-hours a day. Went 3 1/2 years of a 4-year construction apprenticeship, (they let me out early because I took extra classes) moved to a different state. Construction tanked, so I went to work in a fab shop for 3-years. I learned more about welding and fabrication in the 3-years I spent in the fab shop, than combined with welding school and apprenticeship!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I went to one of the most respected welding schools in Northern California and have 9 welding certs including 2 6G pipe certs and It was still difficult for me to find my FIRST job.  My first job was at Old Castle Precast welding steel concrete frames with crazy quotas.  It dident take much skill, just MIG welding butt joints all day essentially.  My second and current job was at a nice fab shop Harley Murray Inc MIG welding low bed trailers this is my first in my opinion real welding job.  But ANYWAYS when I took the welding test I was so damn nervous I welded like crap and my test wasent as square as I would like-  It was a mess I was shaking and made a fool of myself but they saw something in me and liked me and hired me LOL.  And now I'm over 3 months in, I learned SO MUCH: forklifts, fittup, counteracting gravity with gun manipulation.  The point is, I went in there confident and with a smile on my face and they basically hired me because of that.  The job listing on Craigslist demanded 5 years minimum experience.  God is good to me.  In conclusion, It was very difficult for me to even get my foot in the door after school even tho I look very good on paper.  Employers are looking for experience.  Personaly I would wait a while if he can find a job and if he struggles send him to a school.  Mine was a 6 month course 5 days a week 6 hours a day MIG,STICK,TIG,FCAW,FCAW-G  and I'm very happy I went to school.