Auto darkening helmet question. Do you close your eyes?

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I am wondering do you close your eyes during the transition of light to dark? Because there is a brief moment the shade isn't active yet (miliseconds). Even on high-end helmets. The sensors are not faster than light (nothing is) and some flash gets through the filter. Is it good practice to do it or should I not bother.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThermwoodI am wondering do you close your eyes during the transition of light to dark? Because there is a brief moment the shade isn't active yet (miliseconds). Even on high-end helmets. The sensors are not faster than light (nothing is) and some flash gets through the filter. Is it good practice to do it or should I not bother.
Reply:Does that not defeat the purpose of an auto darkening?Unless your delay is set really slow, you should not be able to see the flash, or even notice the transition.You have nothing to worry about.
Reply:I hope I explained well enough what I mean. Like say you are MIG welding and your helmet is down and you are looking through the filter. You place the nozzle to the joint and press the trigger. Usually there is a big spark and this is when the shade on the filter switches on. You have your eyes open the entire time?
Reply:Originally Posted by Thermwood   You have your eyes open the entire time?
Reply:You are talking 1/25000 of a second  I gurantee you don't have a reaction time fast enough or the visual perception to even detect a change at that level.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:"Don't worry..., be happy!!!"
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopYES!Try closing your eyes and start welding.See how it works!
Reply:I don't see how you'd possibly notice the delay, but if the thought of it bothers you why not used a fixed shade? You'd be able to see faster than you would closing your eyes then opening them..
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawYou are talking 1/25000 of a second  I gurantee you don't have a reaction time fast enough or the visual perception to even detect a change at that level.
Reply:don't feel out a place w/ that question, I liked it.    Surely couldn't hurt.   I don't like ad lens
Reply:The filter in an AD shield should still provide UV and IR protection even when not darkened.  Even if you're getting a brief flash of visible light upon arc strike (which I have never seen with my Nexgen), the UV and IR spectrums are already being protected against.  There is therefore no reason to close your eyes.
Reply:I've been involved in the graphic arts for most of my working life and have been around light sensitized materials and processes for a long time.  I'm not medically qualified but I would presume that retinal tissue, any part of the eye, exposed skin etc. are all damaged by the same property of light as that used to expose sensitized films, plate material and what have you.  I'm not sure if I have this mathematically correct but I seem to remember that intensity times duration equals actinic value (in conventional photography it's exposure value).  Anyway, the amount of exposure one receives before an AD lens activates is so small that it could be safely said that there is no actinic effect at all.  You might damage your eyes if you were to view a nuclear explosion at say 1/25,000 second because of the extreme intensity but a welding arc?  I doubt it seriously because it's probably at least an order of magnitude less intense.
Reply:Originally Posted by Canadian WeldingDoes that not defeat the purpose of an auto darkening?Unless your delay is set really slow, you should not be able to see the flash, or even notice the transition.You have nothing to worry about.
Reply:Aren't the uv rays what affect your eyes. And don't the ad helmets always protect against uva and uvb rays preventing burns and damage."I thank God for all the freedoms we've got in this country, I cherish even the right to burn the flag, but I'll tell you what, we've also got the right to bear arms and if you burn my flag I'll shoot you"-Johnny Cash
Reply:I tig weld a lot of hard to reach parts and sometimes on my auto  darkening helmet I get a flash for a brief millisecond of time. Nothing to bother me. tigging with an auto darkening helmet which I almost never do I always blink right when I arc up. I got so used to blinking before the arc its second nature now
Reply:Ive been trying the blink before arc but my biggest problem is, remember to turn the AD on first.
Reply:Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. The average eye (in good condition) "refreshes" 20,000 per second. So a flash that lasts 4x10^-5 seconds could fit in that 5x10^-5 refresh rate. But as many of you have already said, I've forgotten to turn my AD hood on before and it wasn't that bad. I think the standard passive shade is a #3 or 4.John 3:16(2) Miller Pheonix 456(2) Millermertic 252Dynasty 210DXHobart 210MVPDoringer D350 SA Cold SawScotchman 350LT Cold SawWebb 10x50 MillWebb 15x40 LatheGeka Bendicrop Ironworker
Reply:Originally Posted by EcondronJust because you don't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. The average eye (in good condition) "refreshes" 20,000 per second. So a flash that lasts 4x10^-5 seconds could fit in that 5x10^-5 refresh rate. But as many of you have already said, I've forgotten to turn my AD hood on before and it wasn't that bad. I think the standard passive shade is a #3 or 4.
Reply:Originally Posted by cajunboyi'd be willing to argue with that just for the sake of playing devil's advocate.  professional photo equipment can fire flash w/ durations near that speed and you still can see it flash.realistically is it going to affect your vision longterm? I dunno i'm not a doctor. but I'd be willing to bet he's right in that there will always be a small amount of flash getting through. negligible? maybe but, not if you have a cheap helmet(harbor freight, etc).
Reply:My first autodark helmet I got roughly 1998.  After a long day of welding I would notice my eyes getting tired.I think the speed was 1/4000 sec.My modern helmets (Miller, Optrel, Jackson) all claim something like 1/20,000.  I can honestly say there is no noticeable fatigue on my eyes on any of these helmets.I'm not a professional, but on occasion I have days where I'm finish welding a larger project and I swear if feels like the hood is down more than its up.No blinking neededCon Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:I think you guys are all reading way to much into this. I think he means Right BEFORE he pulls the trigger, he closes his eyes, and then opens them once the arc is going. I actually used to do this until I figured out to turn my helmet to a darker shade. He's not trying to time his lids to the response of the AD filter.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:It destroys the purpose of a AD helmet.Quit worrying about it, and get welding.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:I had a kobalt hood from lowes or something that was slow to darken. It was a flash for just a fraction of a second. That would leave a sun spot (I guess you can call it.) I went to a Lincoln and it never happened again. I think that this is what the OP may have been talking about. It made me want to close my eyes as I stuck the arc.
Reply:Did you know florescent lighting flickers 30 times faster than the eye can see? At that rate it takes hours for your eyes to get tired from that and nobody can notice it happen.  Your eyes are always protected with auto darkening technology. There are millions of us using it everyday. If you are seeing a flash you have a problem.Lincoln Viking 3350- has been my favorite.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.Originally Posted by tbone550The filter in an AD shield should still provide UV and IR protection even when not darkened.  Even if you're getting a brief flash of visible light upon arc strike (which I have never seen with my Nexgen), the UV and IR spectrums are already being protected against.  There is therefore no reason to close your eyes.
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247Did you know florescent lighting flickers 30 times faster than the eye can see? At that rate it takes hours for your eyes to get tired from that and nobody can notice it happen.  Your eyes are always protected with auto darkening technology. There are millions of us using it everyday. If you are seeing a flash you have a problem.Lincoln Viking 3350- has been my favorite.
Reply:Originally Posted by OscarThat's not what delay is for on an a.d. Helmet. Delay is for dark to light, after you finish welding, not light to dark.
Reply:Originally Posted by DUKE57I thought that fluorescents and incandescents flash 60 cycles per second.
Reply:I read  it on the inter webs , actually some thread here but the Poster said that if they Tack all day long they use a regular hood since there is the brief moment before AD hoods go completely to shade.- tired his eyes out by the end of the day.As already mentioned still protected from UV and the hobby dudes and dudettes should not worry about the possible eye fatigue Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I borrowed a cheap helmet from a friend and swore I'd never buy one because the flash was so bad. My wife got me a Hobart for Xmas a year later and I love it... no flash.... unless I forget to turn it on. OP has yet to tell us what kind of helmet he has, how old it is, or what kind of condition the batteries are in.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247That might be the same thing.  I saw on Bar Rescue that it was 30 times faster than the eye can see, Jon Taffer said it caused the eye to fatigue and people to not stay as long at your drinking establishment.  That's where I got that from, love that show.
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideIve been trying the blink before arc but my biggest problem is, remember to turn the AD on first.
Reply:So there's no "on" button on a Miller? I didn't know that... might influence my next purchase.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by DUKE57Maybe your right Doug,  my wife always calls me a halfwit,  so maybe I am looking at only 30 cps.  lol
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247Lol! Im not sure how many cycles per second an eye can see, Or how fast a florescent bulb should flash, I should rephrase it. What I was saying was 30x faster than the eye can see. And you said 60 cps for the bulb to flash...  The light will flash at 60 cps, that is 30x faster than the eye can see, so than means the eye can see 2 cycles per second? Not a math expert. Does that make sense?
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronSo there's no "on" button on a Miller? I didn't know that... might influence my next purchase.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manExactly what I was gonna say. The answer you need is right here.
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247Lol! Im not sure how many cycles per second an eye can see, Or how fast a florescent bulb should flash, I should rephrase it. What I was saying was 30x faster than the eye can see. And you said 60 cps for the bulb to flash...  The light will flash at 60 cps, that is 30x faster than the eye can see, so than means the eye can see 2 cycles per second? Not a math expert. Does that make sense?
Reply:Makes sense.
Reply:You nerds can turn anything into an argument.  To answer Thermwood's question,  I paid my eyedoctor a pretty penny for him to tell me there are no longterm affects of arcflash.  Welders flash is a minor sunburn on the outer skin of your eyeball.  The only time my doctor saw longterm physical damage done to a person by light was a mental patient who stared into the sun for a couple of hours.  The flash isnt going to hurt you.  What does hurt your vision is the continous strain you put on your eyes when welding.  There is really no way around that if you want to be a welder.  Good luck and take it easy on those eyeballs young buck
Reply:What do you mean an argument?!Arguments are where neither person is right, just each of them have different opinions.Facts bro.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:I just nod my head before lighting up. Never been flashed yet.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Never used an ADH before, just got mine yesterday. It does take time getting used to it.
Reply:I would be more worried about the sensors on the AD getting temporarily blocked and flashing you than thus nonsense of a millisecond delay for the AD to darken. I use only AD hoods now and can tell you I have a lot less chance of getting flashed than doing the head nod thing which I did for many years. Technology, embrace it or get ran over by it, your choice.
Reply:What brand hood do you have ? I don't trust the cheap ones with my eyes. There is a difference between a HF China import and a REAL hood .
Reply:I close my eyes before striking with an auto dark. When I first tried one I did not for a few years. I am not sure how I picked up the habit...........
Reply:BD1, were you asking me? I use a Jackson halo x with the Boss AD filter.
Reply:If you're so worried about it get a fixed shade and try doing fit up on fab jobs, you wont whine about your ad hood again. Yea theres people who do Everything with fixed shade but Im just not that apt yet. Ad hood for fit up and when it comes time to weld I drop the pipe liner. I should also add that ive never had a problem with my hood flashing me. Only time it happened was on very thin aluminum in bright day light. My ad good is am arcone vision black, my fixed shade is a fibre metal pipeliner Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by Canadian WeldingDoes that not defeat the purpose of an auto darkening?Unless your delay is set really slow, you should not be able to see the flash, or even notice the transition.You have nothing to worry about.