Tips for Tig welding small diameter tubes?

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Mostly working with bicycle tubing, so diameters generally range from 2/3" to maybe 1.5-2" maximum. I have my beads and full penetration 'acceptable', so now I am challenging myself with butt joints on cut tubing. How do you develop the techniques to keep the electrode close to perpindicular to the tube as you rotate around the tube?I start with two or three tacks, and am trying to 'connect the dots'. It gets nearly impossible to see the line of the (cut) joint, and by beads tend to wander when I have no obvious reference point. (This also happens while laying bead down a tube if I am not looking straight at it).Thoughts? Is the answer the same one to "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:what I recently started doing is many many "practice runs".  As many as 20 or more.  Go through the whole motions just as if you were tig welding, but with the machine off including moving your body/head as if you're trying to get a direct view of the arc/puddle.  You have to try different things to prop either your hand or elbow or forearm or a combination of the three so that your bead termination ends up with the electrode perpendicular to the surface. Think about things like:  Am I going to rotate the torch with my whole arm?  Or am I going to rotate the torch with my elbow planted, rotating only my wrist?  Or am I going to going to rotate the torch with my wrist in combination with extending my hold of the torch with my fingers?  If the tungsten does not end up perpendicular, you need to ask yourself "should I have slid further this way/that way, should I have planted my elbow/forearm a little but "upstream" in order to end up in a better position?", etc, etcDifferent people have varying levels of eye-hand coordination and finger dexterity, so you have to find out what works best for you.  For example, I'm right handed, but 22 years of playing guitar have left my whole left arm with so much more dexterity/control, that I absolutely dread to hold the tig torch in my right hand.  I use my left hand to hold the torch 99.999% of the time because using my right hand to use the torch feels as weird as trying to write with my left hand.  Catch my drift?If you don't already have one, a "tig finger" helps so you can lay your pinky or other finger right on the tube as you continually rotate around the tube.Last edited by Oscar; 04-08-2013 at 11:53 PM. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Watch this video.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Wow, this is actually really interesting. I am left handed, but I have been playing guitar my whole life right handed. I had a massive welding 'breakthrough' when I realized that I am much, MUCH more coordinated with the gun in my right hand, and feeding the rod with my left. I think there is something to this, but I don't know what. Thanks for the tips so far. I take breaks in between welding practice playing, I just built a new amp cab, and I am building a Telecaster right now...Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:Same, here.  I feel much more coordinated feeding filler with my right hand  But when I use my MIG, it definitely has to be holding the mig gun with my right hand. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Originally Posted by rideitI am left handed,..
Reply:If you can't see the joint bevel the edges a little so you have something to follow. For keeping the touch angle the same..practice.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Fantastic post from Oscar. I'll add that as you do dry runs with the torch, do dry runs with your vision. I move my head along with the torch so that I can see ahead of the puddle whenever possible. If you have an AD helmet, do that with the helmet down so you get a sense for whether you can fit your head into tight places when moving around a frame.Post some pictures so that we can offer more insight.
Reply:I'll also comment that if you have to work in an awkward position, usually it helps to start in the awkward position and weld to a more comfortable one then the other way around..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks, guys, good tips. I'll post some pics tonight.Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:Originally Posted by RaulJust to clear the air on this:EVERYONE is born right handed, but Only the Great ones overcome it.
Reply:Here is a quick pic, demonstrates what I am talking about. (right to left)I'll start this one next, and post an 'after' shot in a few hours. Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:Originally Posted by rideitMostly working with bicycle tubing, so diameters generally range from 2/3" to maybe 1.5-2" maximum. I have my beads and full penetration 'acceptable', so now I am challenging myself with butt joints on cut tubing.
Reply:She-ite,  I have a grand total of maybe 15 -20 hours welding anything, ever. Basically in the last two weeks on my own in my studio. Totally self taught. So, cold, you say. Got any hints?Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:Originally Posted by rideitShe-ite,  I have a grand total of maybe 15 -20 hours welding anything, ever. Basically in the last two weeks on my own in my studio. Totally self taught. So, cold, you say. Got any hints?
Reply:Haha...yeah, I sorta addressed that with the 'Carnegie Hall' comment....Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:i start in the farthest/most awkward spot and work towards me where its more comfortable like DSW said. small diameter tubing is def tricky when you dont do it alot. i do it here and there with stainless railings and such, beads look good but always end up a littel darker in color than id like
Reply:15 to 20 hours seldom gets students at the tech school thru lap joints on 1/8" flat stock. And that is with someone standing there giving pointers to get them up to speed. Thin small round tube is quite a few hours away. Figure 200-300 hours maybe at a bare minimum.Have I posted this for you yet? I did it a while back for some one else who wanted to learn tig. It's the sequence we use at the tech school. Originally Posted by DSW View PostI've done so many "how to tig" threads here I've lost count... I should probably start tagging them with "new tig thread" or something like that to make them easier to find.1st go on line to Miller and download their tig handbook as well as the manual for your machine. Read thru them and they will answer most of your basic questions on this.http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/TIGhandbook/As suggested, get some 1/8" steel ( we use 3" wide 6" long pieces) and grind/sand off the mill scale, both sides preferably. If the steel is oily, you'll also need to wipe it down with acetone ( do not use brake cleaner!) You can skip the grinding if you buy cold rolled rather than hot rolled, but CR is more money. It's usually cheaper to grind. Note a wire wheel will not remove rust or mill scale, only polish it. You need to grind sand to prep.Grind your 3/32" tungsten to a pencil point and set the machine at roughly 125 amps on DC, argon at about 15-20 cfh. Extend the tungsten out of the cup about 3/8" roughly. This will let you see the arc better.1st drill I usually have students do is to just run beads with no filler on flat plate. Try and get comfortable and set up so you can maintain a consistent arc length and travel speed across the piece. You will be using the pedal to manipulate the amps in this drill. As you run the beads, play with the pedal to get a feel on what happens as you depress the pedal. Make the puddle smaller and larger at will.Remember the plate will heat up and if you don't keep cooling it down, it will act like you are upping the amps. I tell students the pieces are cool enough when you can handle them with your bare hands. A quench bucket and several pieces to work with will allow you to keep practicing without having to wait all day for coupons to cool between beads,Next reset the amps to say 90-95 and floor the pedal. In this drill you will now vary either the distance you have the tungsten from the work, or your travel speed ( drill #3 is to vary the one you didn't do in this drill) Get a feel how these changes affect the arc and puddle. Don't worry too much about these right now, the idea is mostly to get you to understand that varying these will change and effect the puddle. For most of the rest of the drills, you'll want to try and maintain as consistent travel speed and arc length as possible and just change your amps with the pedal.After these drills, say maybe an hour of "play time", try to run a bead by adding filler. 1/16" filler is a good size to work with. I usually suggest the students start with a lay wire method where they keep the filler in contact with the plate, and bring the puddle to the filler. Remember you melt the filler with the puddle, not the arc. You can slide the filler along the plate and into and out of the puddle as needed. If your amps are on the low side, some times the filler rod tends to be "sticky" and want to stick to the plate using this method though. Add a few more amps with the pedal if this is the issue. You can also "tap" the filler in like a drum stick or "stab" the filler at the puddle. I usually don't suggest new students stab the filler at the beginning as they usually will constantly hit the tungsten and foul it. get used to grinding your tungsten and get in the habit of stopping to regrind as soon as you foul the tungsten.You also will want to practice feeding filler with your left hand ( assuming you are right handed). Get yourself a length of filler rod, and practice feeding it thru your hand while wearing your tig glove when you are watching tv to help develop the muscle memory for doing this.Once you can run consistent beads the full 6" length of the plate, try overlapping the previous bead by 50%. Once you can consistently do these, you can move on to lap joints, followed by T joints, outside corners, and finally but joints in that order.Then you go back to the beginning for horizontal joints and start the whole process all over again with beads on flat plate... Then the same thing for vertical followed by overhead. After all of this, you can move to thinner material and start all over again with say 1/16" and then finally start on round tube.Post up picts of your practice pieces along with your settings etc and we'll help you with this.One other thing. Because tig allows you the most control over the weld, it means that there are a lot of things you will have to manage all at once and keep the same to get good results. Best way to learn is to take a class so that someone can watch as you weld and pick up on many of these small changes that you are not aware of. There's only so much that can be done with picts. It's much easier to pick out a lot of this stuff if someone is watching you though.Good luck.
Reply:Thanks.You are a patient teacher, I can tell. I, OTOH, am quite an impatient student! However, I am determined, resilient, and open minded.Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:OK, DSW, Here is a little more practice. I threw this together today for fun.1/16 tungsten, ~55-65 amps, .o23 mig filler wire. And just so you think I'm not trying to suck up, the initials stand for Dirbag $ucky Welder....each weld is about the thickness of the writing on a dime. decent penetration, etc. I have also done a few structural pieces, namely welding together sections of Yakima Crossbars to make a custom length (tubular pipe)Things are coming along. There is no substitute for hood time. Not bad for less than 50 hours or so, I reckon, but I have a long way to go. But I am a determined type, I like to get damn good at things, not just muddle. Cheers!Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:Those all look tall and cold to me, but Im a rookie as well
Reply:Originally Posted by neverfastenoughThose all look tall and cold to me, but Im a rookie as well
Reply:Yea hard to tell once they are all cleaned up. Im took lazy to clean my welds after, thats why I got a TIG in the first place
Reply:It's a 'gotta start somewhere' thing, I'll go deeper/more amps as I get more comfortable.Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons