Air compressor air dryer ?

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Hi guys, so I'm finally setting up my shop a little better and it seems I'm using air alot more than in the last with the carbide cutters as well as painting alot more nowadays. I'm really looking for some help trying to get rid of the water in the air lines. The water separators that just catch the water are not working in my application. I'm looking for a solution to the water problem I have a 5.5 hp 60 gallon air compressor (husky) I found some refirgerant types on eBay for $4-500 but they look like no name types and I'm looking for solution instead of trying something blind, aNyone have any suggestion for me? I just don't feel like I need a $1000 air dryer for the amount of air I use but I could be wrong ...
Reply:make one yourself. I know I've seen one on here that apparently works really well and just uses cheap cat litter to get the water out. Can't remember who posted it. but I'm sure a quick search would find it.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ight=air+dryerbuild your own.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:the old ones that you load with a roll of toilet paper have always worked the best for me!Thermal Arc 186 AC/DC Tig SystemMillermultimatic 200 with spool gunFisher Norris 124lbs AnvilLiebherr Mining and Liebherr Nenzing Craneshttp://www.etsy.com/shop/ShootAphoto
Reply:I am also having trouble with the high humidity here in Alabama.   I have the Motorcraft unit and a little unit that came on the back of my 1000 G3 Powermax Hypertherm and Im still getting some moisture.After reading these post the light came on to a solution.Fellows  I looked at the thread ThorsHammer posted of Assinassin-works of the dryer that he built with the cat litter.   I had purchased some Texas Pneumatic Air Manifold Tanks at an auction.  After reading this thread I was wondering that since the tanks are already certified if I could mount it on a stand or the wall . Plug the 2 inch inlet hole so that I could put the walmart cat litter in there or from the top 2 inch plug.  Feed my air in on a bottom side inlet allowing it to flow through the cat litter.  Then tap an outlet on the opposite side at the top for my dry air output.  The tank is also plumbed , certified, I could move the pressure gage and pressure relief valve to an outlet near the top of the tank  and have an inexpensive way to remove water.   If you dont mind take a look at the tanks on the buy/sale /trade section of the forum and let me know what you guys think.  I am open for all input. Good , bad and maybe a little ugly.  My post is listed as 15 gallon Air Manifold Tanks.   This may be a way for others to maybe use some type of tested air tank that they have .Thanks.      richey
Reply:The key is to cool the air. Hot air can carry a lot of moisture. I have a refrigerated air dryer and run small end use dryers at the equipment for good measure. When plumbing the shop use 3/4" pipe if you can afford it as big lines drop moisture faster than small ones due to lower velocity.Here's a link that shows some details of my setup and some more discussion.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=47000
Reply:Wow quite a few options to build one, I'm just wondering why I have so much moisture it's insane latelyI actually have water coming out of my air lines with the humidity lately .
Reply:Can anyone tell me if these incadessant type builds would efficiently take water out of my work line efficiently ? Or do I really need a refridgerator type dryer ? I think the problem I have is that it's so humid in my shop and I run my compressor in the storage room it's collecting alot of water , even when I drain the tank it shows water in the lines. Will piping black pipe in an up and down pattern before the dryer help at all? And can anyone tell me where I can fin a reasonable anti dump set-up?
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=266461#25http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=266461&page=2#26
Reply:insulating your hard lines might help too.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Here is a link to an article I recently wrote in regards to air drying systems, specific to plasma cutting.Jim ColtLink:   http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/fabs...startid=22#/22
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerinsulating your hard lines might help too.
Reply:The air requirements of each plasma model varies. Most have an operating range like 90 to 135 psi to work with the cut in, cut out of the compressor. I see no reason to run high pressures. My home shop runs 90 to 120, with a refrigerated dryer (with built in moisture trap/drain) and a particulate filter, reciever (Tank) has an auto drain.  Never any water, and has not required any maintenence or filter changes in 4 to 5 years. Thats the kind of system I like!Also, cooling the air alone does not remove the water. Cooling humid air makes the water droplets larger.....which alows for a moisture trap to centrifuge the heavy particles out....then drain them from the system. I have seen a few systems that simply cool the water with no method of removing it. A moisture trap or coalescer is necessary.As well, beware of cheap versions of dessicant filters. If you use one ensure that there is an adequate particulate filter after the desicant filter. Dessicant otherwise will tend to move through the system eventually damaging the air system in the plasma power supply or torch. The good quality (read expensive) dessicant dryers as used in painting applications often have self regenerating dessicant towers as well as mositure drains and poarticulate filters. They require very little maintenence.Jim Originally Posted by forhireNo. You want the lines to shed heat. If you notice the line between the first and second stage is finned on most compressor heads, this helps lower the temperature between the stages. Nice article Jim. Not sure you touched on operating psi in your article but it's worth noting. Unless your application requires 150 to 175 psi air you will make cooler air by lowering the compressor cutoff pressure. It's a lot easier to make 100 or 125 psi air than 175 psi air. That "extra" 50 psi takes a lot of energy. Your compressor start-up will be easier, run cooler, and the result is cooler air. Your electric bill will also go down. Your compressor may cycle more but the cycle will be notably shorter.
Reply:Jim Im glad you spoke up and gave us this technical and professional information.   I  was kinda lost about this moisture thing.  I know now how I am going to improve my system.  Thanks for all your help.richey
Reply:Here's my redneck solution.Running these on two different compressors one of which feeds my plasma cutter.Standard whole house filter leaving the cotton string filter in and adding desiccant rocks that I picked up on Craig's. Five gallon bucket for $20. Added some color changing beads since the rocks don't change color. I've been running them for 2 years at full compressor pressure without any problem.Beads turn pink, I just put the canister contents in the oven, bake them out and refill.Also running a Motor Guard filter on the plasma cutter.Last edited by In Utopia; 07-27-2013 at 08:38 AM.
Reply:I'd be cautious with that (polycarbonate) bowl and structural fiber mount.  It might be rated for 120 PSI (water pressure) maximum but not 150-175PSI air pressure that most 2 stage compressors can make.When that stuff explodes, the shrapnel can be lethal and, if you read the cautions that come with the filter unit, it states not to use any sealant on the mating threads.  Thats because any type of sealant can degrade the structural fiber bond (what the mount is made from) and severely lower the burst pressure.Finally, they are rated for cold water not hot air.  Heat also lowers the safety factor.It's yours, enjoy it.
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlipI'd be cautious with that (polycarbonate) bowl and structural fiber mount.  It might be rated for 120 PSI (water pressure) maximum but not 150-175PSI air pressure that most 2 stage compressors can make.When that stuff explodes, the shrapnel can be lethal and, if you read the cautions that come with the filter unit, it states not to use any sealant on the mating threads.  Thats because any type of sealant can degrade the structural fiber bond (what the mount is made from) and severely lower the burst pressure.Finally, they are rated for cold water not hot air.  Heat also lowers the safety factor.It's yours, enjoy it.
Reply:Get yourself a couple 10 foot sections of baseboard radiator core and plumb them in between your compressor head and the tank.  Then put a desiccant dryer on the compressor.  You'll have nice ambient temp air, with most of the moisture dropping into the tank.  Then use the chemical dryer to get the rest.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:Originally Posted by In UtopiaCommon sense and a degree in red neck engineering tells me there is a safety factor built into pressure ratings. Been using them for 2 years in the Texas heat with compressor discharge pressure of 140 lbs. I used Teflon tape on the connections.Sometimes simple is better than over thinking.What works for me may not work for all, to each his own.
Reply:Originally Posted by anickodeGet yourself a couple 10 foot sections of baseboard radiator core and plumb them in between your compressor head and the tank.  Then put a desiccant dryer on the compressor.  You'll have nice ambient temp air, with most of the moisture dropping into the tank.  Then use the chemical dryer to get the rest.
Reply:I have mine mounted on the wall behind the compressor, horizontally.  That puts the fins vertical, which allows for maximum convention.  Works great.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:Today is Saturday so it was a light day for air usage. I have 10 feet or so of 3/4" copper pipe between the compressor and the air dryer. I have a trap at each end. I just drained the trap nearest the compressor and took a photo. The far trap was dry. Can't really tell from the photo but there is about a 1/2" of water in the bottle. The water looks good enough to drink but I don't think I'll dare. I drain the traps daily. I don't know how much water the tank auto drain drops per day but it's often wet. The same for the air dryer... it auto drains so no idea. I think some finned copper base board would work great. Attached Images
Reply:Hook a piece of vinyl tubing to that auto drain and route it outside... no more wet, rust-stained concrete.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:I love how the projects and pic section became the question section.
Reply:My compressor is in an out-building about 25' from my main shop. The air runs through a 1/2" copper tube buried under ground. There is a drain valve at the low point in the pipe run, and I always get some water out of it after a hard day's use. Inside the shop, it goes through a coalescing filter, and I never see any water in the bowl.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clampsDepends on how much money you want to put into it. I don't leave my air compressor tank empty. I leave it full of air. So for most of my use, I am not getting hot moist air. But if I am going to be using a lot of air....I covered my cheap fix in another thread. I used two fifty foot coils of copper tubing and put them in a big rubbermaid tub. I fill it up with ice water to cool it fast below the dew point. Run it to a coalescer, then through a dessicant tank and then through a motorguard filter. It is cheap and easy. If I was running a pro shop needing a lot of air I would refrigerate it instead.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Originally Posted by Joker11Depends on how much money you want to put into it. I don't leave my air compressor tank empty. I leave it full of air. So for most of my use, I am not getting hot moist air. But if I am going to be using a lot of air....I covered my cheap fix in another thread. I used two fifty foot coils of copper tubing and put them in a big rubbermaid tub. I fill it up with ice water to cool it fast below the dew point. Run it to a coalescer, then through a dessicant tank and then through a motorguard filter. It is cheap and easy. If I was running a pro shop needing a lot of air I would refrigerate it instead.
Reply:so after reading about everyones elses setup, i found a couple big problems with mine, first i need to place my water separator/ filter 25' from my compressor, (thats my first problem), next im going to use 3/4" black pipe until it gets to my work/hose, then step it down 1/2" from what i understand this should do 2 things, the air should drop moisture, as well as give me more power compared to the line im using now. im also going to either build or buy a desiccant filter, and finally if that does not work i read alot of good reviews on the harbor freight refrigerated cooler and ill just suck it up and buy that, for the amount of air i use i think im well within its specs. its not that i use alot of air but the air i use needs to be perfectly clean, im ruining some nice sir tools with moisture and my paint work also suffers depending on what time of the day im painting. im also adding one of the electric dump valves to keep the tank dry.thanks for all your input
Reply:My only caveat to your plan is I'd use 1" black pipe for the main runs with 3/4" drops.  Reason being is the 1" is only marginally more expensive than 3/4" and the larger diameter gives you more reserve air.  Think of your piping as a long skinny air compressor receiver....lolFor fittings (if you preplan over box store fittings like Menards or Hone Depot) try Plumbing Fittings Direct).  www.plumbingfittings.com (I think thats it).  Much cheaper plus they sell ball valves which are the ones you need for your shut off's.If, your compressor is aftercooled (finned pipe coming from the high side to the low side) and has a sunstantial receiver, you can mitigate the 25 feet to the coalescing dryer quite a bit because the discharge air into the receiver is pre cooled and the receiver itself will further cool the air, allowing the entrained moisture to drop out (drain the receiver often).I don't use electric dump valves because they tend to clog, I just have a regimen of draining the receivers daily.  If you are set on auto drain valves, I have 3 in the drawer plus a mechainical (pressure differential) dump, you can have very cheap.I have a HF refrigerated dryer.  It's adequate for point of use (like a plasma or spray gun or air tool outlet, but it's not sufficient in capacity for the entire system and mine crapped the bed after 6 hours, the compressor siezed and I had to source another compressor (discarded bar refrigerator compressor and replace and recharge the system so it's not a quality unit like an IR.  I realize it's half the price but you get what you pay for, you don't pay much, you don't get much.  I also had some issues with the sealing of the inlet to the internal seperator/water dump inside the dryer.  The inside threads on the seperator body were extremely shoddy and allowed the seperator to leak (water).  I had to remove it and rethread it internally (it's a thread turning on a lathe job btw), the diameter is too large to retap with a pipe tap plus it's metric pipe.  Things to consider with the HF dryer, plus it's noisy as hell.  Not an issue in a shop enviroment but it 'sounds' cheap.Finally, don't forget to put a drip leg on each outlet branch below the point of use, with a ball valve, end open to ambient atmosphere.  Reason being you'll still need to drain  entrapped condensation from your point of use legs ocassionally.  You can't ever get all the condensate out of the air supply, no matter what you install upstream which is why I finalize each tool/machine with a Motorguard filter right at the inlet.  That gets the little bit left which is essential for spray painting and plasma unless you want to use 10FEE fish eye eliminator in your paint or don't care about consumable life on your plasma.I also use an inline oiler (Coilhose Industries) set up with a male and female air chuck fitting that I can attach between the point of use chuck and the air hose to provide lubrication for air tools.  I use Marvel air tool oil.If you sparay paint, never use the same airhose you use for air tools.  Always have a spray gun only airhose and use it for nothing but painting.  It only takes a minute amount of contaminate to ruin a paint job, so a dedicated hose is a necessity.Thats how I have mine set up and it works for me, may not for you.
Reply:Sidecar, thanks for posting your tips.  I'm going to be setting up my shop air soon and had planned on using an HF drier I drier I received in trade for a side job.
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlip  If you sparay paint, never use the same airhose you use for air tools.  Always have a spray gun only airhose and use it for nothing but painting.  It only takes a minute amount of contaminate to ruin a paint job, so a dedicated hose is a necessity.
Reply:Originally Posted by dallas_That there is some good advice.  Wish I'd seen it a few weeks ago before I painted my wife's car.
Reply:If you want a desiccant dryer here is one I just finished assembling.  I used a Wirlpool whole house filter (model WHKF-DWHBB)  filled with Silica Gel (Mimi cat litter from Walmart).  The cat litter is $5. for 4 LBs more then enough to fill the filter.  I reversed the flow direction putting a 1” PVC pipe in the top to direct the air to the bottom of the filter bowl,  I put aluminium screen over the inside input port and some in the PVC pipe to stop gel beads from getting out.  I put a short hose on the output to my plasma unit. Attached Images
Reply:Make sure that you have a particulate filter between the dessicant and the plasma. If not, expect the plasma system to eventually plug with fine particles of the desiccant...creating far more problems than moisture! Also is a good idea to install a pressure gauge at the plasm air inlet to ensure pressure is adequate after filtration.Jim Colt
Reply:That water filter makes me nervous.. That's designed for 50 psi water, not 100+ psi air.  Seems like a shrapnel bomb to me. You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcoltMake sure that you have a particulate filter between the dessicant and the plasma. If not, expect the plasma system to eventually plug with fine particles of the desiccant...creating far more problems than moisture! Also is a good idea to install a pressure gauge at the plasm air inlet to ensure pressure is adequate after filtration.Jim Colt
Reply:Originally Posted by tackitI wonder if a small window air conditioner blowing it's cold air onto a compressors cylinder cooling fins would help?   I don't see why an auxiliary oil tank that holds ten quarts of oil and goes through an oil cooler couldn't be built. Saylor and Beall recommend choosing an air compressor that will allow for a cool down time period.  Maybe have an extra tank
Reply:Harbor Freight has an auto-drain kit for something crazy like 10 bucks. It is rated at 125 psi, and my compressor runs up to 175... but I am tempted to chance it/try to fix the limitations. Anyone have luck with one of these gizmos? (Might just buy it, vivisect it, and build my own.)One other (not so original, I certianly can't claim it...) idea is just using a length of some pipe. Mount it on your wall starting from your compressor head, down to a low point going high and then back to your tank. Put a tee and a valve at the lowest point. This is honestly an application of the 80/20 rule. Even on a hot summer day here in Alabama, pipe stays cool enough to sweat out most of the moisture from the freshly compressed air. Even if you use a desiccant filter or some other type of filter further on down the line, this sort of trick can still prolong the effective life of the filter/filter media.This sort of fix is important for me to keep my equipment running. We routinely have so much humidity that if the temperature dropped ten degrees I would be surprised if there would be land in sight.
Reply:Originally Posted by browncoatHarbor Freight has an auto-drain kit for something crazy like 10 bucks. It is rated at 125 psi, and my compressor runs up to 175... but I am tempted to chance it/try to fix the limitations. Anyone have luck with one of these gizmos? (Might just buy it, vivisect it, and build my own.)
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlipIMO, you can never have enough (tank) receiver capacity, just remember to drain them.....
Reply:I understand that.  Most shops, home and industrial limit compressor size in direct relationship to power available, one reason it's more economical in the long run to buy a screw over a reciprocating compressor, more CFM with less input power.I'd love to have a 25 horse Quincy QP V4 with a 200 gallon receiver, but guess what, I don't have the power to run one and most home shops and small industrial ones don't either.So, you do the next best thing, you increase the receiver size to make up for the deficiency in  delivered CFM.I actually have a total of 25 CFM available if I run multiple units.  99% of the time I need 1/3 of that and receiver capacity in my case 200 gallons static carries enough ait for my needs.While I can rum my Quincy either start-stop or continuous, I run start-stop.  It's more economical on the elecrtic meter to do that.In theroy you could take a tiny compressor that made enough pressure and plumb it to a huge receiver, sure it would run a lot, until the receiver was at pressure but then it would sit idle until the pressure differential dropped enough to energize it again and keep in mind, starting amperage is 3 tikes running amperage and you pay on amperage, not voltage on your electtric bill.
Reply:If anyone is interested, I have a auto drain sitting in my supply cabinet, it's much nicer than the HF one and it's self contained, using atmospheric air pressure under compressor pressure to actuate a diaphragm to dump the condensate, I think they are around hundred bucks and no hookup to the unloader line.  It's all self contained.I took it off after a time because the needle vale is tempermental and leaks a bit ocassionally.  The thing is patented btw.  I just drain my receivers daily, no biggie..  I hate leaks, no matter how small and I don't like fiddling with things like that.The way it works is, as your air pressure builds, it also builds on the discharge side of the valve.  When you use air and the receiver pressure falls, to a pre deterimed point, the captured higher pressure opens the needle valve and allows condensate out, into a,line and deposits it in a convenient place, in my case an empty washer fluid bottle.  You pay the shipping, it's yours.
Reply:Sidecarflip, not sure what brand or model you tried. I've been using an electric solenoid valve with an integrated timer to drain my compressors with good results. Much simpler than the pressure valves. Just plumb into the bottom of the tank and plug in.  I have several of these in use. I've been using them since 2006 with no real issues. I have replaced the o-ring on one but it was an easy repair. They open every 10 minutes for a few seconds. Before I started using auto drains the drain water was always rust colored. Now it's fairly clear. There is a screen that keeps out the big chunks but I doubt I'll every really build up any flaky rust.The cheapest place I've found has them for $71.58.http://www.ecompressedair.com/drain-...ain-valve.aspx Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcoltMake sure that you have a particulate filter between the dessicant and the plasma. If not, expect the plasma system to eventually plug with fine particles of the desiccant...creating far more problems than moisture! Also is a good idea to install a pressure gauge at the plasm air inlet to ensure pressure is adequate after filtration.Jim Colt
Reply:The clear bowl allows you to see the color for the dessicant.MiMi cat litter is Silica Gel it is not like the Clay type of other cat litters.
Reply:I have been looking for a used sand blaster pot on CL or maybe get one when HF has them on sale cheap and build the kitty litter filter/dryer out of that since most of the plumbing is already thereBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:TSC (Tractor Supply) has them everyday for a hundred bucks.  I have one, works fine for a sandblaster.....
Reply:I wonder how effective this would be. Seems like it may be ok for point of use.http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=280715792451Late to bed, and early to rise. Fish like hell so I don't have to make up lies. Syncrowave 200MM211 & Spoolmate 100
Reply:Sure looks like a Horbor freight part http://www.harborfreight.com/air-too...ter-69923.htmlsome one modified and added silca Gel to it and marked it up to make a few bucks for him self.
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlipIf anyone is interested, I have a auto drain sitting in my supply cabinet, it's much nicer than the HF one and it's self contained, using atmospheric air pressure under compressor pressure to actuate a diaphragm to dump the condensate, I think they are around hundred bucks and no hookup to the unloader line.  It's all self contained.I took it off after a time because the needle vale is tempermental and leaks a bit ocassionally.  The thing is patented btw.  I just drain my receivers daily, no biggie..  I hate leaks, no matter how small and I don't like fiddling with things like that.The way it works is, as your air pressure builds, it also builds on the discharge side of the valve.  When you use air and the receiver pressure falls, to a pre deterimed point, the captured higher pressure opens the needle valve and allows condensate out, into a,line and deposits it in a convenient place, in my case an empty washer fluid bottle.  You pay the shipping, it's yours.